Why the morbidly rich need to be seriously taxed

[brenthutch 384]

25 minutes ago, jakee said:

So what’s that, a 10% tax rate or even less? Yeah, he couldn’t possibly be expected to contribute more, there wouldn’t even be any point left in being rich. What are we, Marxists? 
 

It’s also probably fairly similar to what he spent on a toy boat, once you factor in a few years of support costs and bridge rebuilding. If we want just a smidge of context.

[wmw999 2,126]

The purpose of taxation is to support the infrastructure that allows all this free enterprise. That includes schools, so that your enterprise can have educated employees, even in the more menial jobs. It includes roads, so that your company infrastructure can be built up (even if you're largely virtual, how do you think transmission towers are installed -- and how is the infrastructure to put those satellites into orbit maintained?). It includes the regulation of healthcare, so that the medical personnel are at least somewhat qualified.

Lots of things -- and the vast majority of those things are determined because they were a big enough problem to warrant addressing by the government. Just like all those silly rules about building airplanes still apply -- even though there is software to help (at least until the efficiency experts do some analysis to see that humans now perform perfectly).

If something is truly no longer needed (e.g. large-scale manure disposal in cities), it'll go away. Maybe even the rules around it will go away -- but who wants to pay our legislators to go through all those rules (remember -- most of them written in blood or cost) to pull out the ones that aren't necessary any more -- and who can truly be certain?

That's what his taxes are paying for, too. And, frankly, I don't envy him his low tax rate. We pay a significantly higher rate, and I'm OK with that. Because we retired to this part of the country in part because of the infrastructure -- 5 minutes from the freeway, train station in town to NYC, bus service all over, good healthcare in the area, educational and entertainment opportunities in town to keep us alert. None of those things are truly free, even if there's no entry fee to a particular concert. Why shouldn't we pay to keep that infrastructure?

Wendy P.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

18 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Sure, pretty much nobody is going to pay extra from the goodness of their heart. Hence, asking for a proper taxation structure that allows for a vibrant and healthy society is not really envy.

 

Do you really think Jeff Bezos would not have built Amazon if he had ended up with only $150 billion?

When MAGA types are asked about the mythical "Again"  time they want to return to, they generally vaguely refer to the post-WWII years.  Back when Men were Men (or cowboys, or test pilots), women knew their place (baking cookies while barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen), and the color line was in full force.  Another interesting aspect of MAGA dream time is that during the Eisenhower Administration the top marginal income tax rate, which applied to income above $200,000 ($400,000 for couples) ($200,00 in 1954 dollars is equivalent to $2.3 million today), was 91% (!!!).  Of course, that was the taxes applied to the portion of income above those limits.  A couple making $465,000 would have paid an effective tax rate of 75%. (source)

So I'm curious, if there is any truth to the argument that expecting the very wealthy to pay anything more than an incredibly low tax rate would result in them refusing to invest in business, leading to the collapse of American society, how is it that those years of 90% tax rates are the very same years that are held up as the best years in America's history?

And Brent, I'll see your "envy" and raise you "greed".

[jakee 1,257]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Yes, we know you are. You just said people would be stupid to pay more than they have too, and have just shown that Bezos pays a much lower tax rate than you. You’d love to be able to do that!

[Phil1111 913]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:22 AM, tkhayes said:

yup - try calling your senators.  The best I have gotten in the past 3 years is an answering machine.   I am willing to bet that Bezos (et al) have all the senators phone numbers and I bet they answer when he calls.

You have it all backwards. Billionaires and lobbyists doesn't phone senators and house members. They tell them what they require for tax policy face to face. When they meet at the fancy dinners and fundraisers, for those aforementioned politicians come election time. Then if the answers aren't framed as promises the cheques stay in the wallets and purses.

Edited April 6 by Phil1111

[Phil1111 913]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:00 PM, JoeWeber said:

Okay, McRaven was the head of the Seals when Bin Laden was taken out. Good. Eve Longoria was on a housewives show? That's worth $50 Million each for whatever good works they can imagine? And how ever did Bezos's girlfriend get her job? The morbidly rich need to be seriously taxed.

Have a little sympathy for a fellow yacht owner. He had to take his yacht back to a drydock because it has been used so much. Bezos's girlfriend is learning to fly his helicopter off his support ship. Both pictured below:

She has been taking lessons for more than a year. No word yet if Jeff trusts her to land the helicopter on the vessel with him aboard the helicopter.

[brenthutch 384]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

Yes, we know you are. You just said people would be stupid to pay more than they have too, and have just shown that Bezos pays a much lower tax rate than you. You’d love to be able to do that!

Shifted my wife’s 401k into a Roth that will be taxed at ZERO.  

[brenthutch 384]

3 hours ago, GeorgiaDon said:

When MAGA types are asked about the mythical "Again"  time they want to return to, they generally vaguely refer to the post-WWII years.  Back when Men were Men (or cowboys, or test pilots), women knew their place (baking cookies while barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen), and the color line was in full force.  Another interesting aspect of MAGA dream time is that during the Eisenhower Administration the top marginal income tax rate, which applied to income above $200,000 ($400,000 for couples) ($200,00 in 1954 dollars is equivalent to $2.3 million today), was 91% (!!!).  Of course, that was the taxes applied to the portion of income above those limits.  A couple making $465,000 would have paid an effective tax rate of 75%. (source)

So I'm curious, if there is any truth to the argument that expecting the very wealthy to pay anything more than an incredibly low tax rate would result in them refusing to invest in business, leading to the collapse of American society, how is it that those years of 90% tax rates are the very same years that are held up as the best years in America's history?

And Brent, I'll see your "envy" and raise you "greed".

Is the greed to which you are referring the Left’s insatiable appetite for other people’s money?

 

[brenthutch 384]

There’s an old Russian fable about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was Boris had a goat and Ivan didn’t. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared telling him she could grant just one wish, but it could be anything in the world.

Ivan said, “I want Boris’ goat to die.”
 

Lefties = Ivan

[GeorgiaDon 340]

If unconstrained greed is such a good thing, I guess we can call you a fan of Alex Murdock.  Sensible people realize there needs to be limits to greed. When people build their fortune facilitated by a society that provides them with an educated work force, infrastructure that allows them to access their supply base and get their products to market, and on and on, yet claim they shouldn’t have to help pay for any of that, they are worse than the mythical welfare queen they so fear.

[JoeWeber 2,315]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

There’s an old Russian fable about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was Boris had a goat and Ivan didn’t. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared telling him she could grant just one wish, but it could be anything in the world.

Ivan said, “I want Boris’ goat to die.”
 

Lefties = Ivan

We're talking about the effects of unrestrained wealth accumulation assisted by a governing party that will use the wealth disproportionally directed into a certain small number of coffers, owned by reliable supporters, as a means of maintaining power and to launder a nations wealth into the leaders coffers. Here we are talking about the American Oligarchy. We are talking about Bezos, Musk, Dimon, Crow, Hankey, Lass, etc. etc and all of the many billionaire hedge fund owners like Fisher who now are saying Trump is probably not too bad or backing his bond for future favors or out of current obligation. We're talking about yachts that cost several 100's of millions of dollars and attendant support ships with helicopters and submarines that cost the same not a $25,000 sailboat that is also called a yacht. We're not talking silly parables. We're talking about not getting so close to having a system similar to Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE that there is no turning back. We're simply talking about adjustments to the ability to accumulate capital at obscenely high levels not about wanting a neighbors goat or to simply deprive them of it out of spite.

 

[brenthutch 384]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

We're talking about the effects of unrestrained wealth accumulation assisted by a governing party that will use the wealth disproportionally directed into a certain small number of coffers, owned by reliable supporters, as a means of maintaining power and to launder a nations wealth into the leaders coffers. Here we are talking about the American Oligarchy. We are talking about Bezos, Musk, Dimon, Crow, Hankey, Lass, etc. etc and all of the many billionaire hedge fund owners like Fisher who now are saying Trump is probably not too bad or backing his bond for future favors or out of current obligation. We're talking about yachts that cost several 100's of millions of dollars and attendant support ships with helicopters and submarines that cost the same not a $25,000 sailboat that is also called a yacht. We're not talking silly parables. We're talking about not getting so close to having a system similar to Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE that there is no turning back. We're simply talking about adjustments to the ability to accumulate capital at obscenely high levels not about wanting a neighbors goat or to simply deprive them of it out of spite.

 

If we want to get our panties in a twist why not go after the tax cheats (Hunter Biden) and the politicians who have turned a civil service job into a multi million dollar racket. At least Bezos and Musk have given us Amazon, Tesla and SpaceX. 
They have created more jobs and societal wealth than Nancy Pelosi ever did. There would be no Tesla, SpaceX or Amazon if their personal capital was sucked out of them when they were mere millionaires 

[JoeWeber 2,315]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

If we want to get our panties in a twist why not go after the tax cheats (Hunter Biden) and the politicians who have turned a civil service job into a multi million dollar racket. At least Bezos and Musk have given us Amazon, Tesla and SpaceX. 
They have created more jobs and societal wealth than Nancy Pelosi ever did. There would be no Tesla, SpaceX or Amazon if their personal capital was sucked out of them when they were mere millionaires 

Just when I thought you couldn’t come up with a more mundane and ridiculous argument. 

[brenthutch 384]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

We're talking about the effects of unrestrained wealth accumulation assisted by a governing party that will use the wealth disproportionally directed into a certain small number of coffers, owned by reliable supporters, as a means of maintaining power and to launder a nations wealth into the leaders coffers. Here we are talking about the American Oligarchy. We are talking about Bezos, Musk, Dimon, Crow, Hankey, Lass, etc. etc and all of the many billionaire hedge fund owners like Fisher who now are saying Trump is probably not too bad or backing his bond for future favors or out of current obligation. We're talking about yachts that cost several 100's of millions of dollars and attendant support ships with helicopters and submarines that cost the same not a $25,000 sailboat that is also called a yacht. We're not talking silly parables. We're talking about not getting so close to having a system similar to Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE that there is no turning back. We're simply talking about adjustments to the ability to accumulate capital at obscenely high levels not about wanting a neighbors goat or to simply deprive them of it out of spite.

 

Who builds those yachts, submarines and helicopters? Pretty sure it’s not multi billionaires. Time and again lefties aim at the fat cats but end up hitting the little guys.
 

Edited April 7 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 384]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Just when I thought you couldn’t come up with a more mundane and ridiculous argument. 

Explain 

[JoeWeber 2,315]

12 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Explain 

Fuck man, Hunter Biden, again? WTF is with you? Some clown who fiddle fucked around on a chump change tax bill vs. letting hundreds of billions in unrealized, but tradable assets that can be leveraged to get loans at discounted rates to buy anything on the planet and then deduct the interest go untaxed so you pay more taxes. And that’s an equivalency in your learned opinion?  And then you toss in Nancy Pelosi as a dog whistle. You need to drop the kids off at daycare and get out in the world.

Edited April 7 by JoeWeber

[brenthutch 384]

5 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Fuck man, Hunter Biden, again? WTF is with you? Some clown who fiddle fucked around on a chump change tax bill vs. letting hundreds of billions in unrealized, but tradable assets that can be leveraged to get loans at discounted rates to buy anything on the planet and then deduct the interest go untaxed so you pay more taxes. And that’s an equivalency in your learned opinion?  And then you toss in Nancy Pelosi as a dog whistle. You need to drop the kids off at daycare and get out in the world.

I am juxtaposing the tax cheat and the politician who enriched themselves while creating no value to society with, admittedly, super wealthy billionaires that have actually created real value.

[brenthutch 384]

Question: would you rather have a society where there was massive income inequality yet everyone was better off or a society where everyone was equal yet poorer?

[JoeWeber 2,315]

14 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Question: would you rather have a society where there was massive income inequality yet everyone was better off or a society where everyone was equal yet poorer?

Have you read a single history book? Oh, sorry, I forgot that for you it’s about now. Seriously man just take a look at today’s nations with the most wealth inequality and ask yourself if any of those are countries you would move to.

Edited April 7 by JoeWeber

[brenthutch 384]

9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Have you read a single history book? Oh, sorry, I forgot that for you it’s about now.

If that were the case I wouldn’t have been able to retire at 50.

[JoeWeber 2,315]

Just now, brenthutch said:

If that were the case I wouldn’t have been able to retire at 50.

Lots of people retire at 50. Even people without wives still working.

[brenthutch 384]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Lots of people retire at 50. Even people without wives still working.

That is the advantage of marrying someone 12 years younger.

(believe me if I didn’t pull my own weight (and them some) she wouldn’t have it)

Edited April 7 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,315]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

That is the advantage of marrying someone 12 years younger.

Tell me please you didn’t marry her on your way to the Army. 

[brenthutch 384]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Tell me please you didn’t marry her on your way to the Army. 

No I was 42, although I have witnessed the tragic results of those who have.

Edited April 7 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 384]

10 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Tell me please you didn’t marry her on your way to the Army. 

That would make her six