Aircraft certifcation

[Jumpdude 0]

Does anyone know where online, I can find the list of aircraft that are legal to use skydiving. I Think there's one in the back of the SIM, but,,,, Ain't got one. Don't usually need it.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[brettski74 0]

Well maybe you should go and download yourself a copy and then look on page 210. This is a list of aircraft that may be operated with one door open. This may not be an exhaustive list of currently used skydiving aircraft as there may be other aircraft not on this list that can be used for skydiving operations. Some obvious examples of this would be tailgate aircraft such as the Skyvan or Casa C.212.

[Jumpdude 0]

Quote

Well maybe you should go and download yourself a copy and then look on page 210. This is a list of aircraft that may be operated with one door open. This may not be an exhaustive list of currently used skydiving aircraft as there may be other aircraft not on this list that can be used for skydiving operations. Some obvious examples of this would be tailgate aircraft such as the Skyvan or Casa C.212.

Thanks for that info. I wa particularly checking on a "stinson". Are they ok for jumping? I've never heard of any in the skydiving business. The owner tells me that it climbs it's tail off, fully loaded...

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[councilman24 36]

The list is for operation with one door removed, not open. A fine distinction but I have gotten out of airplanes and closed the door behind me, skydiving.

List is for one cabin door removed. Casa for example aren't on the list because your not removing a cabin door.

And for the truely lazy here is the stinsons on the list.
Stinson SR-7B (R/H door)
Stinson V-77

Other may be possible, these are already deemed able to fly with one door off.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[quade 3]

Quote

Well maybe you should go and download yourself a copy and then look on page 210. This is a list of aircraft that may be operated with one door open. This may not be an exhaustive list of currently used skydiving aircraft as there may be other aircraft not on this list that can be used for skydiving operations. Some obvious examples of this would be tailgate aircraft such as the Skyvan or Casa C.212.

The list also has a couple of aircraft that aren't exactly "skydive friendly," for example, it lists the Cessna 337. If you wanna make a skydive out of that, uh, good luck to you and I hope you keep your head down.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[riggerrob 558]

Good luck finding a Stinston jump plane.

Stinston was just one of many airplane manufacturers (Culver, Globe, Interstate, Porterfield, Fleet, etc.) that failed in the late 1940s, so the youngest Stinston is 60 years old.
Yes, Stinsons were popular with private pilots, bush pilots and jump pilots up until the 1960s, but then their fabric covering wore out and they were too expensive to repair.

[riggerrob 558]

Just because an airplane is certified for flight with a door removed does not mean that it is safe or economical for hauling skydivers.

For example, European DZs used to be able to buy military-surplus Dornier 27 airplanes for cheap. Single-engined Dorniers were big, roomy, comfortable with lots of windows, they could fly really slow jump runs and land in any cow pasture. But there was a down side. Do's climb slow and the door handle snagged so many containers that they were banned from hauling tandems.

Similarly, I have done a few tandem jumps from an American-made Maule, but it was so narrow that I was glad all the students were slender girls. I had to wait until after the first tandem had exited before I could tighten the side straps!
Forget about hauling large, male tandem students in a Maule.

There are also a few airplanes that look good on paper (e.g. Piper Cherokee Six) but never turned a profit while hauling skydivers.

[Jumpdude 0]

Actually have located a Stinson, but don't know where the deal will go or if it will get anywhere at all.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[kristake 0]

Hi there!
Can someone try to post this list again? The link is broken...
Thanks!

[dzswoop717 5]

There are dozens of stinson 108 series airplanes for sale and hundreds of them still flying. They came from the factory with either a 150 hp or 165 hp Franklin engine. A Franklin engine is a six cylinder air cooled engine similar to a Contiental on many Cessnas but for some reason they have a very low time between overhauls.
they have a decent useful load but, not enough power for climbing to 10k at gross weight. Another issue is the door is small.
If you were looking for a plane to own and make a few jumps with a buddy from maybe 7k, it would be a fine choice.
If you want to fly tandems all day to 10k I would look for another airplane.
There have been many engine conversions for this airframe including a Lycoming o-340 190hp, Lycoming o-360 180hp and a Continental o-470 230hp (same as a stock 182). The take off and climb performance is greatly improved and would make going to 10k more possible but, with the small door and cramped cabin 3 jumpers would be max and a tight fit at that.
Also, most Stinsons are fabric covered and depending on the system used and how it had been stored over the years, will need to be recovered at a great expense.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you buy any airplane. they all have potential to be a money pit.
There were also several radial engine stinsons built in the 1930's. You better be a mechanic or wealthy to buy and maintain one of these.
I am not trying to discourage you, Just a little advice from someone who has already made the same mistake.

[dzswoop717 5]

I made a mistake in my other post. It was not a lycoming o-340 190hp, it was a lycoming 0-435 190hp conversion.

Another thing I have seen on the 108 series is when they metalize the plane to eliminate the fabric covering. I have heard that it adds to the empty weight of the airframe and cuts down on the useful load.

[mjosparky 3]

kristake

Hi there!
Can someone try to post this list again? The link is broken...
Thanks!

http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section9/AC1052C/tabid/258/Default.aspx#2102

Sparky

I just noticed that is an out dated document.

See attachment

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Actually have located a Stinson, but don't know where the deal will go

Are you looking to make one (or a couple) jumps from the plane, or are you looking for a 'working' aircraft for a DZ.

If it's just for a couple 'novelty' jumps, just take extra care to really think though (and dirt dive) the entire process from where/how to sit, how to move around inside the plane, how to exit, what to touch/not touch, etc well before planning to actually jump from a new, unknown aircraft. Also, make sure the pilot has jump experience or speaks to an experienced jump pilot (and that he has significant time-in-type, the last thing you need is a guy with 10 hours in type 'learning' to be a jump pilot).

If you're looking for a plane to work at a DZ, go find a 182. They're plentiful, sturdy, reliable, easy to repair, east to get parts for, easy to find pilots for, and can be had on the cheap these days. You could probably get one in flying/jumpable condition for under $30k in stock trim, and then add upgrades as money becomes available (engine upgrade, prop upgrade, STOL kit, etc).

[jonstark 8]

dzswoop717

I made a mistake in my other post. It was not a lycoming o-340 190hp, it was a lycoming 0-435 190hp conversion.

Another thing I have seen on the 108 series is when they metalize the plane to eliminate the fabric covering. I have heard that it adds to the empty weight of the airframe and cuts down on the useful load.

The Lycoming O-435 is the least desirable engine in any Stinson. It is very heavy, a gas hog and there are no parts available. The propeller for that engine has a very expensive Airworthiness Directive that reoccurs every five years.

Metalizing a Stinson is actually not bad. It is one of the few airframes that looks good when done and there isn't too great a weight penalty. It does make refurbishment of the a/c difficult though.

You need to climb around a Stinson. It is not very easy to get around even with the seats removed. The landing gear structure sticks up in the center of the cabin and you would have to climb over it to exit. The door frame is raised above the floor level as well. Outside of the door the step is small and the struts are not made for climbing all over.

For a novelty jump the 108 Stinson would do but not for regular use. I owned one for four years and flew it from Los Angeles to Florida and New England twice. It's as comfortable as an armchair and just about as fast.

Find an old straight tail 172!

jon