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kmills0705

Stolen Gear - What would you do?

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Hey folks, it's been a while since I posted. But I need your thoughts.

Many many years ago my ex-husband's canopy "dissappeared" from our local dz after spending the winter in the rigging loft. Yes he shouldn't have left it there for such a long period of time, but this was our home dz and felt it was secure.

The canopy has been listed on dz.com as stolen (serial number listed) since 2008. Yes a very long time.

Fast forward to this week. I saw a canopy that looked like his listed for sale in the classifieds. I send him a picture. He asks the seller for a picture of the data panel and sure enough it is his stolen canopy.

Where does he go from here?

I am sure this canopy has changed hands since it was stolen. So the chance this person knows it is stolen or actual stole it is slim to none.

We are pretty sure the dzo (who is very shady) sold it (unknowingly to my ex) in the first place. But we don't know for sure.

So here are my questions:

1. If you are buying gear is it your responsibility to check the stolen gear database on dz.com? I know I always do.

2. If you are selling gear would you check to make sure you are not sellign stolen gear?

3. What are the next steps? I feel this guy should know it is stolen. I personally wouldn't want to jump stolen gear. Karma is too much of a bitch. Karma is a bitch even if you were unaware of the circumstances... just how she works.
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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There are several lawyer types who could answer better than I, but the risk in buying used gear off the internet is if it discovered to be stolen, you must return it no matter how many times it has been sold before it got to you. I have purchased a lot of gear from DZ.com and I never checked the stolen database. I will in the future.
If it were me who bought the stolen gear, and knowing Karma is a bitch, I would try to negotiate a settlement with the rightful owner. Maybe around 50% of what I paid, but technically (not morally) I should be out 100% and have to return the stolen merchandise.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

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That might be a better answer. Have the person go after the person who sold the stolen gear to him to return his money and keep working back to the sleazy DZO. Again, lawyer types can respond, but i believe not knowing it is stolen does not absolve you of criminal liability if you sell it to someone.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

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[:/] tough situation....
the person who has it NOW, likely paid something for it....and likely does NOT know it's history..:(

technically, he should be required to "return it " and be left with Nothing....

The true OWNER i.e. your EX should have the canopy returned to him,,, though it's "value" is much reduced, especially IF there is No idea of HOW many jumps have been put on it....in the last 5 or 6 years.

IF the DZO, whom You have expressed, "uncertainty " about... is STILL operating... Then HE (or She) should be challenged... and IF the DZO Did sell it... SOME amount of money should come from the DZO.... as should have been the case if that person "brokered " the sale in the first place...
Then if the person who is selling the canopy can verify that it was purchased "in good faith " some of the proceeds FROM the DZO should Go the the person who is selling the main,,,ONCE your EX has had it returned to Him...
Your Ex gets the Canopy BACK ( a good thing )
The DZO PAYS,,,, and getting nothing in a return ( a GOOD thing ) and the person who currently HAS the canopy, gets some amount, as compensation, for having the canopy restored to the rightful owner...(also a good and Fair thing )
IF the dzo refuses , then Your suspicions would seem correct.... and depending on Past " track record " and How you and your ex FEEL about it... Maybe file a criminal complaint, if for nothing ELSE,,,,, to make the DZOs life,,,,miserable..>:(

good luck...

jmy

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Thanks guys. I think you guys generally feel how I feel and the canopy at this point isn't worth a lot. It was a Diablo... I know. Enough said. I think it is more the principle of it all. I asked my ex what his ultimate goal was. He said he just wants to know who stole it (was it the dzo?) and they should pay... but tracking a canopy back that long may prove to be difficult.

He is in contact with the current owner and said he was going to explain the situation and ask for the history.

Will keep you all posted.
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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So here was the extent of the "shadiness" from the dzo early on in our skydiving careers (and before my ex and I even dated).

My ex bought a brand new Triathlon through the dzo as a dealer. He put maybe 5 jumps on it and had a center cell blow out on a jump and went he to reserve. He is a big guy and has a pretty decent wing loading. He asked the dzo what Aerodyne would do (replace the canopy, repair it, etc.) The dzo said my ex was SOL and Aerodyne wasn't replacing or fixing. We were both fairly new jumpers at the time and he didn't know any better. After a couple weeks and the situation not sitting well with him he called Aerodyne himself to express his dissatisfaction in their customer service. Aerodyne immediately resonded with "What are you talking about? We shipped a brand new canopy at no cost to your dzo to replace yours two weeks ago"

Well the dzo made some bs excuse and ended up giving the ex the canopy Aerodyne had shipped (which by the way was already in the dzo's own personal rig).

Needless to say I don't jump (or work there anymore).

But that is why we think the dzo sold it and just said "I don't know where it went".
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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What would you do?

I don't prejudge anyone's capabilities by how they look (your pic), but you asked. Several years ago my best friend (silver star, two bronze stars with a V, and two purple hearts) called me and asked me to back him up and join him on a road trip. His complete rig had been stolen two years prior and just returned to him by the second buyer who found out it was "hot" gear. We settled up with the culprit and his two associates. It worked out for us however, that approach is not for everyone. Having a lawyer and a bail bondsman lined up in advance is a good idea if that approach is taken.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

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:| IF he was shady to you...
He was shady to others >:(

I'd say.... "OUT this S.O.B. "

IN his OWN Rig !!!????? you gotta be kidding....
Good move that your ex went over the head of the DZO to contact Aerodyne directly.....

Suggestion... Never leave gear At the DZ or In your car..... Maybe if you have a locker and it's locked.. maybe.
Even then I'd be nervous about a fire, or a break-in and huge event of gear theft.. sad to say, it does happen.B|:( Only exception , is when I'd leave my rig for a reserve repack, and I learned a Looong time ago, just WHO is trustworthy and responsible,, and who isn't...

I have Always taken my rig and gear bags/ cameras etc. OUT of my vehicle and Into the House or into the hotel, EVEN if, I knew I'd be carrying all of it Back out the next morning...:|
sadly I read about a person who had a car stolen,,, and their RIG "just happened to be IN it ".. that stinks...

jmy

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GD64

What would you do?

I don't prejudge anyone's capabilities by how they look (your pic), but you asked. Several years ago my best friend (silver star, two bronze stars with a V, and two purple hearts) called me and asked me to back him up and join him on a road trip. His complete rig had been stolen two years prior and just returned to him by the second buyer who found out it was "hot" gear. We settled up with the culprit and his two associates. It worked out for us however, that approach is not for everyone. Having a lawyer and a bail bondsman lined up in advance is a good idea if that approach is taken.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.




How much do you and your friend charge! :)
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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I'm not a lawyer but when I worked at nightclubs in college we used to have gear "walk off" all the time. Usually when they let some new sound guy in to "fix" the system that I tuned into awesomeness. Anyhow, this is why you keep records of anything you have that has value and can be stolen/resold (i.e. firearms, cars, jewelry, skydive gear). if you have that record file a police complaint since the evidence is in your favour. We used to get our amps back all the time since we had the purchase receipts
You are not the contents of your wallet.

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Everyone who knows me on here has always asked why I am a tandem instructor at a small 182 dz. This is the reason why. They are the only turbine dz in my state (Indiana). Everyone who knows the dzo knows he is shady. To me skydiving is not about the turbine. It's about the people and my dz has the best dzo, instructors, fun jumpers and students in the world.
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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kmills0705

So here was the extent of the "shadiness" from the dzo early on in our skydiving careers (and before my ex and I even dated).

My ex bought a brand new Triathlon through the dzo as a dealer. He put maybe 5 jumps on it and had a center cell blow out on a jump and went he to reserve. He is a big guy and has a pretty decent wing loading. He asked the dzo what Aerodyne would do (replace the canopy, repair it, etc.) The dzo said my ex was SOL and Aerodyne wasn't replacing or fixing. We were both fairly new jumpers at the time and he didn't know any better. After a couple weeks and the situation not sitting well with him he called Aerodyne himself to express his dissatisfaction in their customer service. Aerodyne immediately resonded with "What are you talking about? We shipped a brand new canopy at no cost to your dzo to replace yours two weeks ago"

Well the dzo made some bs excuse and ended up giving the ex the canopy Aerodyne had shipped (which by the way was already in the dzo's own personal rig).

Needless to say I don't jump (or work there anymore).

But that is why we think the dzo sold it and just said "I don't know where it went".



Let me be blunt. Your ex didnt punch him in the face, report him for larceny to the local police department, report him to Aerodyne, or all three of the above? If not why not?

And if you dont mind being honest which DZ was this? If the DZO is still there I would want to know and be warned not to do business with them any more.

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Was there a police report filed when it was stolen? Call the cops. Let them know it was stolen, and you know where it is. If the new seller is innocent he should be willing to work with police to find out the real perp and have them prosecuted. If they are try to hide it, they are guilty too and should be charged with receiving stolen property. The diablo may not be worth much, but where is the rest of the gear? How many rigs are going to go missing from this dz? Maybe your ex had the means to buy another rig, but some other unlucky jump jumper might not, and it could take away their means to pursue jumping.

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I'm not sure if he filed a police report. He may have. I just happened to be the one who saw the canopy listed for sale and sent it to him (we have a good relationship and get along well). This is his deal so I'm not sure what he will do. He did say he has contacted the police. We both feel the current owner didn't know it was stolen gear. We are both fortunate in that it isn't about the money. It's more about being able to prove previous suspicions.

I currently jump at Jerry's Skydiving Circus (also known as Explore Freefall) in Franklin Indiana. Dick Money (yes his real name and the best dzo name ever!) is one if the best, most honest sincere men I know.

To get my turbine fix I always head over to Start Skydiving in Ohio which is the best turbine dz around. Unfortunately it is 3 hours from me. :(
Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

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The whole story is true, I was there and saw him blow up the canopy on deployment. I was also there for most of the rest of the story. Kim I think it is best to let it rest and just be happy in knowing the truth, after all these years and after all the BS that has gone down in regards to why many things took place there, and people leaving etc.

See we were not all crazy after all....
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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stratostar

The whole story is true, I was there and saw him blow up the canopy on deployment. I was also there for most of the rest of the story. Kim I think it is best to let it rest and just be happy in knowing the truth, after all these years and after all the BS that has gone down in regards to why many things took place there, and people leaving etc.

See we were not all crazy after all....



Well I found out who was being referred to. Quite frankly I wish the community would out or expose more thieves/shady people of this sort as it might help clean up the business a bit.

Im close to the DZ that DZO is now running. I dont support thieves and knowing what I do now, I know he wont ever be getting a dollar from me.

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