Germany says coal is more important than people

[jakee 1,279]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Releasing violent felons and showing leniency towards someone convicted of marijuana possession are two different things. Your raging hatred of Trump results in your inability to make that discernment. You need to lay off the MSNBC as well.

Wait, you're boasting about the fact that you think there are liberal DAs who release every criminal they see, and in the same post you're claiming that someone else's bias makes them unable to discern reality? Dude, you just keep getting better

 

Anyway, how the fuck did you manage to shoehorn this into what is supposed to be a discussion about how Germany can't manage with a fossil fuel based energy supply? You must be desperate to avoid the topic if you're bringing this crap into it.

Edited August 25, 2022 by jakee

[brenthutch 388]

I’m pretty sure that was Phill.  In any case, although I appreciate all of the attention and am deeply humbled by it, I agree with you, let’s get back to those poor Germans.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/08/23/world/german-power-prices-panic-europe/

 “Germany’s circumstances are particularly urgent: The country’s dependence on Russian gas leaves it vulnerable as it desperately searches for alternative supplies. The nation is considering restarting coal-fired power plants and may extend the life of remaining nuclear power plants,”
 

Edited August 25, 2022 by brenthutch

[jakee 1,279]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/08/23/world/german-power-prices-panic-europe/

 “Germany’s circumstances are particularly urgent: The country’s dependence on Russian gas leaves it vulnerable as it desperately searches for alternative supplies. The nation is considering restarting coal-fired power plants and may extend the life of remaining nuclear power plants,”

Right. Germany let itself get addicted to Russian gas because it’s cheap and easy (exactly the reasons you claim fossil fuel is so amazing at everything) and now you’re arguing that it’s the fault of renewables that the Russian gas is gone. 
 

I’ll be honest, I really don’t know what to say to counter that.

[brenthutch 388]

53 minutes ago, jakee said:

Right. Germany let itself get addicted to Russian gas because it’s cheap and easy (exactly the reasons you claim fossil fuel is so amazing at everything) and now you’re arguing that it’s the fault of renewables that the Russian gas is gone. 
 

I’ll be honest, I really don’t know what to say to counter that.

They abandoned their domestic fossil fuel production to pursue their renewables fantasy and became addicted to Russian oil and gas. 
https://www.worldometers.info/coal/germany-coal/

“Germany has proven reserves equivalent to 154.6 times its annual consumption. This means it has about 155 years of Coal left“ 

Economic suicide via virtue signaling.

 

[SkyDekker 1,153]

25 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

They abandoned their domestic fossil fuel production to pursue their renewables fantasy and became addicted to Russian oil and gas. 

Coal is still Germany's largest source for electricity.

[brenthutch 388]

https://www.dotmagazine.online/issues/powering-and-greening-IT/energy-is-expensive-in-germany
 

“Why is energy so expensive in Germany? The country is attempting to transition from fossil fuels and atomic energy to renewable energy sources. This change comes at a steep price, which is funded by levies and taxes on Germany’s citizens and companies. Industrial consumers carry a tax burden of 45.5 percent in Germany”

“Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy published a report called “The Energy Transition – Our Success Story.” The report’s chapter titles brim with confidence: “Sustainable and safe”; “Affordable…”

“the management consulting firm McKinsey, which has been publishing its own findings on the energy transition in Germany every six months, declared quite the contrary. According to McKinsey, the success of renewable energy has been possible only through subsidies. The initiative’s goals – and most importantly the reduction of carbon dioxide -- are becoming more unrealistic, McKinsey says. Out of 15 key performance indicators McKinsey defines, only one has improved in the past six months, while 10 actually have gotten worse.“

This was five years ago, things have only gotten worse…much worse.

Edited August 25, 2022 by brenthutch

[Phil1111 943]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Right. Germany let itself get addicted to Russian gas because it’s cheap and easy (exactly the reasons you claim fossil fuel is so amazing at everything) and now you’re arguing that it’s the fault of renewables that the Russian gas is gone. 
 

I’ll be honest, I really don’t know what to say to counter that.

 

32 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

They abandoned their domestic fossil fuel production to pursue their renewables fantasy and became addicted to Russian oil and gas. 
https://www.worldometers.info/coal/germany-coal/

“Germany has proven reserves equivalent to 154.6 times its annual consumption. This means it has about 155 years of Coal left“ 

Economic suicide via virtue signaling.

 

Germany wanted to phase out nuclear and coal because of pollution and the dangers of nuclear energy. The dangers of the reactors and the long term storage of nuclear waste. The greenhouse emissions of coal.

Germany sought out Russian nat-gas because it was readily available, close to the German market. But mainly because they felt that commercial relationships with Russia and Putin. Would bring it closer to the west. Closer to Europe. Assist in Russian economic freedoms.

Just this week the UK ended Russian coal imports. Its banned Russian oil and coal by the end of this year. The EU is now two weeks into its ban on Russian coal.

There is one reason for the end of Russian coal imports to the EU. The end to Russian oil and gas exports over the next year. Putin's war.

Germany may use more coal over the next couple years as it ends completely Russian gas imports. But like America Germany views coal as toxic and a dead end for energy production.  Renewables provide 49% of power used in Germany in first half of 2022

Germany Approves $180 Billion Funding to Accelerate Energy Shift

Germany increased solar power production by 10% last year alone.

Like the old fossils that make up coal. Eventually the dreams of coal ever making a comeback for real will die. For Germany and the EU in general  But also for America and the world. I know its hard for Brent to admit to being wrong. I know he loves his coal stocks His options on old money losing coal stocks. But even your friend Putin can't save them.

[brenthutch 388]

3 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

 

Germany wanted to phase out nuclear and coal because of pollution and the dangers of nuclear energy. The dangers of the reactors and the long term storage of nuclear waste. The greenhouse emissions of coal.

Germany sought out Russian nat-gas because it was readily available, close to the German market. But mainly because they felt that commercial relationships with Russia and Putin. Would bring it closer to the west. Closer to Europe. Assist in Russian economic freedoms.

Just this week the UK ended Russian coal imports. Its banned Russian oil and coal by the end of this year. The EU is now two weeks into its ban on Russian coal.

There is one reason for the end of Russian coal imports to the EU. The end to Russian oil and gas exports over the next year. Putin's war.

Germany may use more coal over the next couple years as it ends completely Russian gas imports. But like America Germany views coal as toxic and a dead end for energy production.  Renewables provide 49% of power used in Germany in first half of 2022

Germany Approves $180 Billion Funding to Accelerate Energy Shift

Germany increased solar power production by 10% last year alone.

Like the old fossils that make up coal. Eventually the dreams of coal ever making a comeback for real will die. For Germany and the EU in general  But also for America and the world. I know its hard for Brent to admit to being wrong. I know he loves his coal stocks His options on old money losing coal stocks. But even your friend Putin can't save them.

Until it happens I will be right and it looks like I will continue to be right for years to come.  
 

Then there is China

“Nationwide, power plants burnt 8.16 million tonnes of thermal coal daily for the first two weeks of August, up 15% from a year ago, according to most recent data from the National Development and Reform Commission. On August 3, daily thermal coal consumption hit a record high of 8.5 million tonnes.”

Edited August 26, 2022 by brenthutch

[jakee 1,279]

11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

They abandoned their domestic fossil fuel production to pursue their renewables fantasy and became addicted to Russian oil and gas. 
https://www.worldometers.info/coal/germany-coal/

“Germany has proven reserves equivalent to 154.6 times its annual consumption. This means it has about 155 years of Coal left“ 

Economic suicide via virtue signaling.

Abandoned? What confuses me is that you’ve linked a page which states Germany is 8th in the world for coal mining and produces 75% of what it consumes. And that the problem they’re currently facing isn’t getting enough coal, but the logistical challenge of moving it around.

[jakee 1,279]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Until it happens I will be right and it looks like I will continue to be right for years to come.  

Right about what, exactly? I don’t think you’ve actually put forward any kind of point in this whole thread. Germany’s infrastructure is struggling to cope with its demand for coal after the gas was turned off….. and?

[brenthutch 388]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

Abandoned? What confuses me is that you’ve linked a page which states Germany is 8th in the world for coal mining and produces 75% of what it consumes. And that the problem they’re currently facing isn’t getting enough coal, but the logistical challenge of moving it around.

They gambled they could replace coal and nuclear with wind and solar, using Russian natural gas as a bridge fuel on the quixotic notion they could be leaders in “saving the planet”. 
They gambled, they lost and they lost BIG. The one positive is that is should serve as a cautionary tale for the rest of us.

[olofscience 429]

55 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

They gambled they could replace coal and nuclear with Russian gas.

Fixed it for you. Given that until last year they were building new gas pipeline capacity from Russia it's pretty easy to call out your BS.

[brenthutch 388]

Just now, olofscience said:

Fixed it for you. Given that until last year they were building new gas pipeline capacity from Russia it's pretty easy to call out your BS.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/easyguide
 

I linked to the ‘Easy Guide’ to help you understand.

[olofscience 429]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/easyguide
 

I linked to the ‘Easy Guide’ to help you understand.

Because you couldn't?

[olofscience 429]

This is also Germany's fault. While they were publicly claiming that they were moving to 'green' power (Brent's link, which of course he hasn't read in full), in reality majority of their shift away from coal was towards gas.

Nord Stream 2 was completed just September 2021.

EU classifies gas as a 'green' investment (January 2022).

They also have quite a lot of gas infrastructure, a lot of heating systems run on gas networks, so switching to electricity for those isn't that simple. But they dragged their feet, and are now paying the price.

Blaming wind and solar for Germany's current predicament is about as believable as the power cuts in Texas last winter being blamed on "frozen windmills".

Edited August 26, 2022 by olofscience

[brenthutch 388]

6 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Because you couldn't?

I have tried and failed to help you grasp the simplest of realities, so I resorted to the Sesame Street version of Germany’s doomed attempt at energy transition. 

[brenthutch 388]

3 minutes ago, olofscience said:

EU classifies gas as a 'green' investment (January 2022).

 

Now they just have to reclassify coal as a ‘green’ power source and the planet will be saved.

[olofscience 429]

3 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I have tried and failed to help you grasp the simplest of realities, so I resorted to the Sesame Street version of Germany’s doomed attempt at energy transition. 

Sure, sure...

[billvon 2,473]

13 hours ago, jakee said:

Right about what, exactly? 

That he could get you going.

[olofscience 429]

Although we've got brent cheering how the germans have been forced to turn to coal (temporarily) due to losing the gas supply, he won't like:

Solar power is booming in Germany as Russia turns down the gas

[brenthutch 388]

12 hours ago, olofscience said:

Although we've got brent cheering how the germans have been forced to turn to coal (temporarily) 

“As long as economic energy storage systems are not established, even proponents of the current direction of Germany’s energy transition will have to admit that reliable conventional power plants will be needed for a long time to come.”

Only Olof would equate ‘temporarily’ with ‘a long time to come’

[olofscience 429]

10 hours ago, brenthutch said:

“As long as economic energy storage systems are not established, even proponents of the current direction of Germany’s energy transition will have to admit that reliable conventional power plants will be needed for a long time to come.”

Only Olof would equate ‘temporarily’ with ‘a long time to come’

Where does that "quote" come from? Definitely not from the article I linked, because it quotes the German Chancellor directly:

Quote

But Chancellor Olaf Scholz has made it clear the government isn't happy about it.

"It is bitter that we now have to TEMPORARILY use some power plants that we had already shut down because of Russia's brutal attack on Ukraine. But it's only for a little while," he said in a message last month.

 

So, stop making things up, and stop pretending that you even read the article I linked.

[brenthutch 388]

4 hours ago, olofscience said:

Where does that "quote" come from? Definitely not from the article I linked, because it quotes the German Chancellor directly:

 

So, stop making things up, and stop pretending that you even read the article I linked.

Define ‘temporary’

[lippy 789]

37 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Define ‘temporary’

Define 'trolling'

[Phil1111 943]

2 minutes ago, lippy said:

Define 'trolling'

Brent