How did you solve your line-twists problem?

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A recent thread got me thinking about something that I have not seen discussed here for a while.

For those of you who have had more than a couple of line twists on opening, and who have had to go to your reserve because you could not get out of them fast enough ...

What did you determine was the problem? Was it a one-time problem, and you have never experienced it again because you changed something?

(It amazes me when I see some of the videos of these deployments. Sometimes there are quite a few line twists, and they happen so quickly.)

[piisfish 135]

I got a new pilot chute

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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piisfish

I got a new pilot chute

Thanks for the reply. Do you mean that you got a new pilot chute with more drag, which sped up your deployment and did not give the deployment bag as much time to dance around?

[Hooknswoop 19]

A. Replaced Spectra kill line with Vectran.

B. UPT semi-stowless D-bag.

C. Magnetic Riser covers.

D. Good body position at deployment.

No more line twists.

Derek V

[piisfish 135]

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***I got a new pilot chute

Thanks for the reply. Do you mean that you got a new pilot chute with more drag, which sped up your deployment and did not give the deployment bag as much time to dance around?Globally the same size pilot chute, with a kill line, which was better than a really used fabric with a bungy collapsible system.

I sometimes had to pull the pin by hand or elbow the container so that the Dbag would get out of the flaps.

Yes I was VERY lazy on that one. It cost me my first reserve ride.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[theonlyski 3]

Usually I got line twists subsequent to end cell closures that cleared a little faster on one side than the other. Almost chopped once or twice but was able to work out the twists.

Changing canopies helped a lot. Going from a Sabre2 170 to a Safire2 169 with an oversized slider almost completely removed any line twists on my deployments. Going with the UPT semi-stowless bag also probably helped a bunch.

Or, as the rigger and packers would say, it was poor body position.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[riggerrob 558]

To answer the original question: I concentrate on keeping my knees level.
I did not understand this until I suffered major line-twists during my first few wing suit jumps. Eventually I concluded that I was relaxing too early - during deployment - and wind was hitting (the top/back skin) of my assymetrical) leg wing.
When I concentrated on maintaining arched legs - until after deployment - line-twists disappeared.

Makes me wonder about all those malfunction stories that start with: "I was on my back, spinning under massive line-twists ......"

[kallend 1,625]

I retired my Stiletto.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AndyBoyd 0]

I bought a Spectre.

[rmarshall234 13]

>because you could not get out of them fast enough ...

Yep, you hit the nail on the head for me...

My last cut-away was on a spinetto, on an AFF jump where I was reserve side with this really big guy that had his butt up the whole time. I was so fatigued at pull time I got behind the curve and the canopy spun up before I could stop it. When I chopped, it took two attempts to clear the Velcro on my pud and I literaly said out loud..."save yourself weakling". That, and a burst of adrenaline is all it took.

(Probably more a story about complacency than line twist but what-the-hell.)

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AndyBoyd

I bought a Spectre.

Andy, what kind of canopy did you have before that was giving you line twists? What type of lines and how many jumps on the line set, etc.

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kallend

I retired my Stiletto.

John, what type of lines and how many jumps on the line set, etc.

I still have my Stiletto 150 and have put maybe 1500 jumps on it over the years. It's on its third line set (Dacron this time) and has never had line twists, only a bit of "searching" for heading.

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Hooknswoop

A. Replaced Spectra kill line with Vectran.
B. UPT semi-stowless D-bag.
C. Magnetic Riser covers.
D. Good body position at deployment.
No more line twists.

Nice detailed info, thank you.

[sammielu 3]

Verify your packing techniques with a rigger.
Improperly stowing toggles, line bights, and routing risers (different rig manufacturers recommend them stowed under flaps differently!) all can cause off heading openings and line twists and I've seen them result in reserve rides.

[mjosparky 3]

Gary, never had the problem. I jumped a Sharpchuter with a mod to the nose. Always opened sweet.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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sammielu

Verify your packing techniques with a rigger.
Improperly stowing toggles, line bights, and routing risers (different rig manufacturers recommend them stowed under flaps differently!) all can cause off heading openings and line twists and I've seen them result in reserve rides.

Samantha, thanks for the info, but I was asking specifically about people who have had line twists numerous times themselves and how they solved the problem.

[sammielu 3]

I've seen 3 spinning line twist malfunctions resulting in cutaways from improper toggle stowing, 2 from messed up bights/line stows and one from a combination of those and improper riser/flap order (just last week). Uneven risers and looking up (no one looks or reaches up symmetrically) to watch the canopy open is a common one too (watch for that in malfunction videos). Yesterday I landed a flip through and did some reeducation with packers.
Riggers and instructors can help you understand what causes a problem and show you how to prevent it.

[gunsmokex 1]

I think I have mine figured out now had twists pretty consistent for a while, not one or two of them but several. One to the point where I found my cutaway handle checked altimeter and still had plenty of altitude to fix it.

I was tucking my risers down too far and they were catching on my reserve tray, now I lightly tuck them down and make sure they are tight when I close my R and L flaps. Almost had a few toggle fires for this reason as well.

I think it was accentuated because my canopy (Hornet) always seems to 'search' for a heading as well and I used to fight it, now I stay relaxed making a point to not look up. Once I feel the 'snatch' on my body I cross my feet so I put even pressure on my leg straps to not induce a leg turn.

Occasionally though my Hornet will still dart L or R right as the slider touches down no idea why it does it, I just try not to fight it and go with the flow and its sorts itself out quickly.

Funny story about this though I was visiting a DZ and told one of their instructors about my line twist problems he gave me some pointers, well guess what his jump was ......a reserve ride because of line twists!!

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gunsmokex

Occasionally though my Hornet will still dart L or R right as the slider touches down no idea why it does it, I just try not to fight it and go with the flow and its sorts itself out quickly.

Good information. I kind of identified this (fighting it) some years ago as one of the things that caused line twists on susceptible canopies, and verified it with some other people.

Anyway, glad to hear that you have a Hornet that doesn't slam you on opening. They are noted for hard openings.

[riggerrob 558]

Funny, we used Hornet 190s (as transition and rental rigs) for years and everyone enjoyed the openings.

Also check age of lines.
Openings deteriorate after A lines shrink or stretch to more than 3 inches difference across the A lines.
Hint: most new canopies start with zero difference across the A lines.

Personal experience, I got a Stiletto 135 third-hand. It had close to 1,000 jumps on the original line-set. My first jump was an AFF. After opening, the other instructor looked up at me kicking out of line-twists and said to himself "Best get out from underneath in case he cuts away."
I eventually kicked out of the line-twists and landed softly, but the flare was nothing spectacular .... not much compared with my old Sabre 1?????? I walked off the dz wondering why everyone else loved their Stilettos.
I re-lined my third-hand Stiletto over the winter and the second summer learned why so many people love their Stilettos! Earned my exhibition jump rating with a Stiletto 135 ..... and I weight 200 pounds.

[AlanS 1]

AndyBoyd

I bought a Spectre.

This is what I try to do.

#1) Don't pack a line twist. Be very careful that you don't twist the bag while putting it into the tray. (Thanks, Chase for catching when I was learning)
#2) make sure the first lines to unravel are neat and stowed symmetrically. (i.e. double stow consistently, and make sure it is same length line beyond the band)
#3) bought a Spectre.
#4) body position on opening. (If I still screw up, it is here.)

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AlanS

#3) bought a Spectre.

What canopy did you have before the Spectre that contributed to the line twists (or tended to line twist.)?

[TriGirl 268]

sammielu

Uneven risers and looking up (no one looks or reaches up symmetrically) to watch the canopy open is a common one too (watch for that in malfunction videos).

Yep, this was my problem. I was actually taught to "look over [my] shoulder," meaning turn my head to the side. The logic was that this would also displace any possible burbles that might be on my back at deployment. I didn't think much of my 2-3 line twists that resulted every time (I started on a Spectre -- rental gear -- and moved to a Storm)

Watched a video of my deployment sequence with another friend/coach in slow motion, and he showed me where that move caused my line twists. Now I throw, count up to 3 (I feel the tug earlier than that), then look up once it's actually filling with air. Beautiful on-heading openings every time now.
Still jump the Storm.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[AlanS 1]

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***#3) bought a Spectre.

What canopy did you have before the Spectre that contributed to the line twists (or tended to line twist.)?

It was rental gear before that. Random canopies. The student gear was mostly Navigator, IIRC, but think Pilot was in the mix too.

I honestly think the biggest factor was packing though.

[Pat007 0]

Got this tip from Brian Germain during a recent canopy course he put on at Kapowsin Skydiving: At opening push outward on your front and rear risers at the same time. This spreads out the risers and makes it more difficult for the canopy to start turning in the first place. This has greatly reduced my off-heading openings and line twists.

My Dad used to ask me if someone jumped off a bridge would I do that too? No, but if they jumped out of an airplane, that's a different question...