Johns Hopkins Retracts Newsletter: "They Would Have Died Anyway"(?)

[jakee 1,274]

27 minutes ago, markharju said:

...nice way to twist my words. At no point did I say that I thought it was legitimate. I was holding it up as an example of how a cascade of decisions can lead to misunderstanding.

In no way was that the message you conveyed with your post.

The decisions you made in composing your post left your intention utterly ambiguous and the post itself open for a multitude of misunderstandings. 

 

Once again, if you post an article without making clear your own thoughts on it everyone reading is going to assume you agree with the article. Especially when the last thing in your post is your own summation of the conclusion made in that article.

[Guest]

...meh...the question mark in the title? Perhaps that and the other indicators of skepticism were too subtle for some...

[kallend 1,673]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

3,100+ dead yesterday in the USA.

But they were going to die anyway - nothing to see here.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

3,100+ dead yesterday in the USA.

But they were going to die anyway - nothing to see here.

 

<DING> "BRING OUT YER DEAD!"

[jakee 1,274]

5 hours ago, markharju said:

...meh...the question mark in the title? Perhaps that and the other indicators of skepticism were too subtle for some...

They were certainly more subtle than the indicators of credence.

And look, if one person misunderstands you’re post it’s their problem. When everyone misunderstands your post it is your problem. Feel free to check through this whole thread - it’s clear that the problem with your post is indeed your problem. 

Added to which you have in this one thread both pointed out the importance of accurate information, and responded ‘meh’ when it’s pointed out that the inaccurate way you decided to word your post is spreading misinformation. So what are we to think, is accuracy important or unimportant? We can’t even tell what your message is in that, let alone on the topic itself.

[JoeWeber 2,341]

11 minutes ago, jakee said:

They were certainly more subtle than the indicators of credence.

And look, if one person misunderstands you’re post it’s their problem. When everyone misunderstands your post it is your problem. Feel free to check through this whole thread - it’s clear that the problem with your post is indeed your problem. 

Added to which you have in this one thread both pointed out the importance of accurate information, and responded ‘meh’ when it’s pointed out that the inaccurate way you decided to word your post is spreading misinformation. So what are we to think, is accuracy important or unimportant? We can’t even tell what your message is in that, let alone on the topic itself.

In fairness at no time did he call anyone a no good fucktard liberal snowflake butt licker who should be chopped into fish food with the amazing ginzu knife. So progress is being made here.

[wolfriverjoe 1,366]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

They were certainly more subtle than the indicators of credence.

And look, if one person misunderstands you’re post it’s their problem. When everyone misunderstands your post it is your problem. Feel free to check through this whole thread - it’s clear that the problem with your post is indeed your problem. 

Added to which you have in this one thread both pointed out the importance of accurate information, and responded ‘meh’ when it’s pointed out that the inaccurate way you decided to word your post is spreading misinformation. So what are we to think, is accuracy important or unimportant? We can’t even tell what your message is in that, let alone on the topic itself.

Don't forget that some of us (including you) have a memory.

Someone's past posting history has an effect on how any current post is interpreted.

In this particular case, any ambiguity is going to be taken as 'Alt-Right' slanted. As in, Covid is a hoax, the deaths are way overblown, the scientists are conspiring to control us all, that sort of thing.

Fun fact: CDC released an estimate of excess deaths from February to November in the US.

345,000. Woo hoo. Winning.

[kallend 1,673]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

In fairness at no time did he call anyone a no good fucktard liberal snowflake butt licker who should be chopped into fish food with the amazing ginzu knife. So progress is being made here.

You missed "pinko commie. . . "

[kallend 1,673]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Fun fact: CDC released an estimate of excess deaths from February to November in the US.

345,000. Woo hoo. Winning.

It's just like a bad cold or a touch of the flu.  It will all be over in a week or two, like magic.

[nwt 131]

15 hours ago, markharju said:

...meh...the question mark in the title? Perhaps that and the other indicators of skepticism were too subtle for some...

So your misrepresentation of the author as a journalist rather than as a student was meant to indicate skepticism?

As was your misrepresentation of the source being Johns Hopkins University instead of its students?

Really?

[JoeWeber 2,341]

10 minutes ago, nwt said:

So your misrepresentation of the author as a journalist rather than as a student was meant to indicate skepticism?

As was your misrepresentation of the source being Johns Hopkins University instead of its students?

Really?

Really, that's the sort of dance routine for which he's used to receiving acclaim. Here is different, apparently.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Really, that's the sort of dance routine for which he's used to receiving acclaim. Here is different, apparently.

Tuesday at 05:43 PM

Thanks to all for the comments. Yes, student paper - that should have been pointed out. However, none of this was to scoff about COVID-19. Quite the opposite; accurate information is more important than ever. I just found the whole thing a little peculiar. It's well that the university retracted it but also kept it available with a disclaimer.

 

[jakee 1,274]

6 hours ago, markharju said:

Tuesday at 05:43 PM

Thanks to all for the comments. Yes, student paper - that should have been pointed out. However, none of this was to scoff about COVID-19. Quite the opposite; accurate information is more important than ever. I just found the whole thing a little peculiar. It's well that the university retracted it but also kept it available with a disclaimer.

Yes, that’s why everyone else finds it so peculiar that your original post was so lacking in accuracy regarding both the facts and your opinion.

 

Even your description of the events is inaccurate. You said it was ‘alleged’ that they retracted it so as not to spread misinformation. No, the editors publicly stated they retracted it so as not to spread misinformation. That’s a declaration, not an allegation. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by jakee

[SkyDekker 1,150]

Those whole thread just reminds me of Shaggy

 

[Guest]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:11 PM, jakee said:

Yes, that’s why everyone else finds it so peculiar that your original post was so lacking in accuracy regarding both the facts and your opinion.

 

Even your description of the events is inaccurate. You said it was ‘alleged’ that they retracted it so as not to spread misinformation. No, the editors publicly stated they retracted it so as not to spread misinformation. That’s a declaration, not an allegation. 

Did you not see the question mark in the title? I put it there because I honestly didn't know what to make of the whole thing. It looked bogus; that's why the question mark.

[jakee 1,274]

19 minutes ago, markharju said:

Did you not see the question mark in the title? I put it there because I honestly didn't know what to make of the whole thing. It looked bogus; that's why the question mark.

Again, it's not just what I saw. Everyone saw what you wrote, no-one knew what your intended meaning was. That means there's a problem with how well you communicated, not with how well others read.

[gowlerk 1,952]

When I read your title I took the question mark to mean you were wanting to question the death toll from covid. FWIW

[Westerly 61]

On 12/1/2020 at 12:23 AM, markharju said:

I stumbled across this story by accident. Johns Hopkins has retracted a newsletter which says that so many deaths "due to COVID-19" have been miscategorized that the numbers appear to be completely bogus. It's alleged that Johns Hopkins retracted it because it was being used to "spread disinformation".

With caveat that the person who published this report is not a credentialed medical researcher, but a journalist:

"Briand also claimed in her analysis that deaths due to heart diseases, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia may be incorrectly categorized as COVID-19-related deaths. However, COVID-19 disproportionately affects those with preexisting conditions, so those with those underlying conditions are statistically more likely to be severely affected and die from the virus."

In other words, the 'Rona has snuffed few aside from those who would have died anyway, but the report goes on to say that more research is needed.

Archived here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iO0K75EZAF8dkNDkDmM3L4zNNY0X-Xw5/view

You realize that 80% of the diseases on the CDC's list are completely manageable in many cases and have little or no effect on the normal lifespan of the individual, right? For example, asthma is not usually considered life threatening and would have zero effect on how long someone lives when properly managed. So to argue that someone with asthma or high blood pressure was going to die anyway, would be highly naïve. Many of those diseases are not life threatening when correctly managed. I would also remind you that more than 50% of the population has at least one of the diseases on those list. In America alone, 1 in 3 are obese and almost 1 in 2 have at least prehypertension. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Westerly

[Guest]

That's an EXCELLENT point. Although I have seen nothing thus far to support it (I'm a wannabe horologist, not an epidemiologist), it would not surprise me to learn that the huge number of fatalities associated with the current pandemic within in the USA bears a strong coincidence with the poor health and lifestyle of fat-ass Americans. We know of co-morbidity, but how much of that is ultimately related to bad habits? Further, I wonder if anyone is looking into this more directly.

More simply: if there's anything that Americans are notorious for from the perspective of those abroad, it's being obese, moreso than many other places I've lived over the years (one does see overweight people in Germany, but it's not particularly common). One could almost say that there was a pandemic before there was a pandemic. I mean, people in the health business have been sounding the alarm for decades now over how many Americans have let themselves become massively overweight and how there are lots of health risks associated with such poor behavior (that's a whole other thread but I believe a root cause is poor education).

Short version: How much less severe would this crisis be if Americans weren't so damned GRANDE? Methinks that there might even be some lifestyle changes. At least with a food crisis, people are going to lose weight,  same as with socialism.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, jakee said:

Again, it's not just what I saw. Everyone saw what you wrote, no-one knew what your intended meaning was. That means there's a problem with how well you communicated, not with how well others read.

Noted. Now can you let it go? Geez...

[jakee 1,274]

30 minutes ago, markharju said:

That's an EXCELLENT point. Although I have seen nothing thus far to support it (I'm a wannabe horologist, not an epidemiologist), it would not surprise me to learn that the huge number of fatalities associated with the current pandemic within in the USA bears a strong coincidence with the poor health and lifestyle of fat-ass Americans.

As the driving factor? That doesn't really scan. After all, one thing the US is doing comparitively well on is deaths per confirmed case. Now, ok, this is partly driven by testing as well - if you find more asymptomatic cases through testing then your deaths per case ratio goes down. But still, if fat americans dying more easily was the biggest reason why so many americans have died you would not expect the US deaths per case to be so good.

 

No, the biggest reason for more americans dying is because more americans have been infected. It's because of your friends. The 'fuck you don't tell me to wear a mask in my own business' people who you support, the 'why can't I have a party with 30 guests if I pretend it's a bird funeral' people who you applaud. 

[jakee 1,274]

38 minutes ago, markharju said:

Noted. Now can you let it go? Geez...

What do you mean? You couldn't let it go either, even though you've just admitted that you were wrong.

[gowlerk 1,952]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

What do you mean? You couldn't let it go either, even though you've just admitted that you were wrong.

If I may interject here. And even if I may not.. I have seen more than one person try to get in the last word with Jakee. It does not seem possible for him to allow that to happen. So.....it will not end till Mark moves on. Just sayin'

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

As the driving factor? That doesn't really scan. After all, one thing the US is doing comparitively well on is deaths per confirmed case. Now, ok, this is partly driven by testing as well - if you find more asymptomatic cases through testing then your deaths per case ratio goes down. But still, if fat americans dying more easily was the biggest reason why so many americans have died you would not expect the US deaths per case to be so good.

 

No, the biggest reason for more americans dying is because more americans have been infected. It's because of your friends. The 'fuck you don't tell me to wear a mask in my own business' people who you support, the 'why can't I have a party with 30 guests if I pretend it's a bird funeral' people who you applaud. 

I'm not applauding foolishness such as that. What I condemn is destroying the lives of the very many in the hope of saving the very few. It doesn't work that way. I just think the blame-game is pointless. People who can't earn a living and end up in a breadline because a government edict forces them to shutter their business and lose their livelihood even though they've followed all the rules. The rules keep changing, that's what I have a problem with.

[jakee 1,274]

25 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

If I may interject here. And even if I may not.. I have seen more than one person try to get in the last word with Jakee. It does not seem possible for him to allow that to happen. 

Not when people willingly participate in a two-way conversation right up until the moment they want to stop and then complain about who's getting the last word. That's just a transparent, passive-aggressive attempt to manipulate the other person. So no great surprise that Mark is trying it.