Add inciting riot

[JoeWeber 2,299]

8 minutes ago, kallend said:

Would you care to elaborate on that distinction?  Subject to what?  What rights do Canadian CITIZENS lack?

The key words are "sovereign citizen". It's a mind set that infiltrates many of Mark's posts.

[gowlerk 1,914]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

The key words are "sovereign citizen". It's a mind set that infiltrates many of Mark's posts.

Oh right. The "sovereign citizen" movement. If that what he believes that he is I challenge him to try to exercise his "sovereign rights" and see how quickly he finds himself in one of his nation's numerous prisons.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, kallend said:

Would you care to elaborate on that distinction?  Subject to what?  What rights do Canadian CITIZENS lack?

 

Most legal scholars consider the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to grant MORE rights than the US Constitution (as amended).

BS. Ask them about C-16.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I have no doubt that some of those who were cited will choose to fight it. I wouldn't bet on them winning. 

...and I wouldn't have bet on the Viet Cong.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

4 minutes ago, markharju said:

...and I wouldn't have bet on the Viet Cong.

Great idea. Instead of chilling for a few more weeks, let's subject the nation to a protracted civil war, destroy our infrastructure and economy and advance by 500 years the day when Mandarin is our National Language. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Oh right. The "sovereign citizen" movement. If that what he believes that he is I challenge him to try to exercise his "sovereign rights" and see how quickly he finds himself in one of his nation's numerous prisons.

FFS. Look up "castle doctrine". Citizens asserting the Bill of Rights (in which sovereignty is guaranteed) is a bit different from nutjobs who try to claim they are their own country, refuse vaccinations, etc. Meanwhile, the ACLU spoke about this briefly some weeks ago, but are now  too busy trying to get people released from jail to pay any attention to those going into them for refusal to follow government orders.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Guest

[JoeWeber 2,299]

3 minutes ago, markharju said:

FFS. Look up "castle doctrine". Citizens asserting the Bill of Rights (in which sovereignty is guaranteed) is a bit different from nutjobs who try to claim they are their own country, refuse vaccinations, etc. Meanwhile, the ACLU spoke about this briefly some weeks ago, but are now  too busy trying to get people released from jail to pay any attention to those going into them for refusal to follow government orders.

Same church, different pew. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Great idea. Instead of chilling for a few more weeks, let's subject the nation to a protracted civil war, destroy our infrastructure and economy and advance by 500 years the day when Mandarin is our National Language. 

If these state governments don't pay attention now, I'm sure they'll listen to reason.

[gowlerk 1,914]

11 minutes ago, markharju said:

FFS. Look up "castle doctrine". Citizens asserting the Bill of Rights (in which sovereignty is guaranteed) is a bit different from nutjobs who try to claim they are their own country, refuse vaccinations, etc. Meanwhile, the ACLU spoke about this briefly some weeks ago, but are now  too busy trying to get people released from jail to pay any attention to those going into them for refusal to follow government orders.

FFS, the term you used in your post was not "castle doctrine", it was "sovereign citizen". The exact quote is

"In my country, people are sovereign citizens with inalienable rights."

Now I suggest you look up the meaning of that term. If you posted carelessly and used incorrect words that you did not mean that is on you. But back to the point, which is your assertion that somehow your nation has greater freedom than Canada does. I'm calling bullshit.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

15 minutes ago, markharju said:

If these state governments don't pay attention now, I'm sure they'll listen to reason.

With a dozen or more civil wars around the world already up and running why wait around here? Just grab your poster and Confederate Flag have at it.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

FFS, the term you used in your post was not "castle doctrine", it was "sovereign citizen". The exact quote is

"In my country, people are sovereign citizens with inalienable rights."

Now I suggest you look up the meaning of that term. If you posted carelessly and used incorrect words that you did not mean that is on you. But back to the point, which is your assertion that somehow your nation has greater freedom than Canada does. I'm calling bullshit.

Yes. I misused the term, or rather, I believe somewhat that the tax rebels bastardized it. I meant sovereignty in that every individual in our system has inalienable rights (as in BIll of Rights)  which transcend governments ("...endowed by their Creator"). In the US system, rights are not bestowed by government, sprinkled upon us like so much pixie dust, but are human rights which belong to everyone. As for your calling BS: C-16 (compelled speech). I rest my case.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

With a dozen or more civil wars around the world already up and running why wait around here? Just grab your poster and Confederate Flag have at it.

"Confederate Flag"...nice touch. So anyone who disagrees with government fiat is a fascist/nazi/racist/bigot/homophobe/whatever. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Guest

[gowlerk 1,914]

18 minutes ago, markharju said:

As for your calling BS: C-16 (compelled speech). I rest my case.

2.3 million people

 

As of 2016, 2.3 million people were incarcerated in the United States, at a rate of 698 people per 100,000. Total US incarceration peaked in 2008. Total correctional population (prison, jail, probation, parole) peaked in 2007. In 2008 the US had around 24.7% of the world's 9.8 million prisoners.

 

I don't even know what C-16 is. But I will bet you that not a single person in my much freer than yours nation is in jail over it. I rest my case.

Edited April 18, 2020 by gowlerk

[Coreece 190]

9 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

As of 2016, 2.3 million people were incarcerated in the United States, at a rate of 698 people per 100,000. Total US incarceration peaked in 2008. Total correctional population (prison, jail, probation, parole) peaked in 2007. In 2008 the US had around 24.7% of the world's 9.8 million prisoners.

Ya, um, Clinton and Biden already apologized for that.  What else do you want?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

2.3 million people

 

As of 2016, 2.3 million people were incarcerated in the United States, at a rate of 698 people per 100,000. Total US incarceration peaked in 2008. Total correctional population (prison, jail, probation, parole) peaked in 2007. In 2008 the US had around 24.7% of the world's 9.8 million prisoners.

 

I don't even know what C-16 is. But I will bet you that not a single person in my much freer than yours nation is in jail over it. I rest my case.

I don't disagree about US incarceration levels - they are staggering, and there appears to be evidence that UNICOR / Federal Bureau of Prisons act as a source of "cheap" labor (if one can call it that) for industry, which seems about as corrupt a system as one can imagine. However, the remark was about free speech versus compelled speech, not incarceration levels. But then, this thread was getting off-topic anyway. I'm surprised you don't know about Canadian Bill 16. Even I as a clueless, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing American am aware of it.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Ya, um, Clinton and Biden already apologized for that.  What else do you want?

Not enough. there is a need for serious reform, starting with getting UNICOR out of the business of exploiting "cheap" labor in the US prison system.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Guest

[Coreece 190]

6 minutes ago, markharju said:

8 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Ya, um, Clinton and Biden already apologized for that.  What else do you want?

Not enough. there is a need for serious reform

Correct.  For the most part it seems like a bi-partisan issue so hopefully we don't find a way to make it divisive (which I now realize I kinda did above) and fudge it all up.

[gowlerk 1,914]

19 minutes ago, markharju said:

I'm surprised you don't know about Canadian Bill 16. Even I as a clueless, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing American am aware of it.

So, I looked it up. I do have a vague memory of a small controversy a couple years ago. First of all it is not "compelled speech". It is an administrative directive.

Compelled speech makes people say things with which they disagree. Bill C-16, like provincial human rights codes, does not make specific reference to speech. ... Along with human rights tribunals, they have primary control over the meaning and application of code provisions, something the justice minister must know.

Jordan Peterson, a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, criticized the bill, saying that it would compel speech. Peterson argued that the law would classify the failure to use preferred pronouns of transgender people as hate speech. According to legal experts, not using preferred pronouns would not meet legal standards for hate speech.

As you have already been told by another Canadian JORDAN PETERSON LIED TO YOU.

The reason knuckle dragging American right wingers know about C-16 and Canadians just don't care is simple. Your right wing media loves to hate anything that protects LGBQT people and rails on and on about it. You have bought into the propaganda and now you are attempting to spread the lies in this forum. Please just stop with the trumping.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 hour ago, markharju said:

"Confederate Flag"...nice touch. So anyone who disagrees with government fiat is a fascist/nazi/racist/bigot/homophobe/whatever. Thanks for clearing that up.

Um, Rebel?

[gowlerk 1,914]

9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Um, Rebel?

He posted a meme with a pic of a mini-gun and a threat to overturn governments by force to get his way. Normal right wing extremist stuff. What's rebel about that?

[murps2000 86]

https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/story/2020-04-17/for-protesters-in-huntington-beach-ongoing-social-and-economic-restrictions-are-political-covid-19-a-hoax

 

Still waiting on a LIBERATE California tweet. I wonder what's taking so long?

[kallend 1,625]

Use of the word "Subject" as a pejorative is quite common among right wingers (Canadians are "subjects" as opposed to citizens was the claim).

I don't have a Canadian passport to look at right now, but a UK (more commonly used for the pejorative) passport states very clearly "CITIZEN of the United Kingdom of ......." and nowhere does the word "subject" appear in it.

[gowlerk 1,914]

2 minutes ago, murps2000 said:

https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/story/2020-04-17/for-protesters-in-huntington-beach-ongoing-social-and-economic-restrictions-are-political-covid-19-a-hoax

 

Still waiting on a LIBERATE California tweet. I wonder what's taking so long?

California is not going to be a swing state. Trump tweets stupid sounding stuff, but there is thought behind most of them. He is trying to appeal to his base in such a way that all hardship is the governor's fault and anything good that happens is thanks to him. It's all about November.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

7 minutes ago, murps2000 said:

https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/story/2020-04-17/for-protesters-in-huntington-beach-ongoing-social-and-economic-restrictions-are-political-covid-19-a-hoax

 

Still waiting on a LIBERATE California tweet. I wonder what's taking so long?

Hopefully someone clues into the slogan potential: Liberate Michigan. Vote Biden! And the same in every state. And in November, Liberate America!

Edited April 18, 2020 by JoeWeber

[jakee 1,255]

1 hour ago, markharju said:

However, the remark was about free speech versus compelled speech, not incarceration levels.

Actually, you said it was about sovereign citiens versus subjects. Don't know about you but I'd prefer to be a free subject than an unfairly incarcerated sovereign. So, yeah. Score 1 for Canada.