kallend 1,819 #1 Posted February 11, 2020 Candidate Trump (2015 - 2016): Raise taxes on the rich: FAIL Reduce the debt: FAIL Invest bigly in infrastructure: FAIL Protect Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid: FAIL Continue protections for pre-existing conditions: FAIL Control drug prices: FAIL "Lock her up": FAIL Repeal ACA and replace with something better: FAIL Employ "the best people": FAIL Build a wall and Mexico will pay for it: FAIL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #2 February 11, 2020 Thine own hate bubbleth over. Let go of your hate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,819 #3 February 11, 2020 3 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Thine own hate bubbleth over. Let go of your hate. An indirect PA instead of an actual rebuttal. So which of my statements is incorrect? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #4 February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, kallend said: An indirect PA instead of an actual rebuttal. So which of my statements is incorrect? The part where you completely ignore the things that HAVE been done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 721 #5 February 12, 2020 It's hard to ignore things that don't exist. His list was 1000% correct, fully accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,691 #6 February 12, 2020 3 hours ago, turtlespeed said: The part where you completely ignore the things that HAVE been done. True. He has managed to get the debt higher than it's ever been. EVER! No other president has gotten it as high as he's been able to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #7 February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, billvon said: True. He has managed to get the debt higher than it's ever been. EVER! No other president has gotten it as high as he's been able to. I'll give you that - But then you could have said that for every year hat Obama was in office as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,691 #8 February 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: I'll give you that - But then you could have said that for every year hat Obama was in office as well. Obama had NOTHING on Trump! Obama struggled to add 4 trillion a term to the debt. Trump is on track to bust through 5 trillion a term. Obama is a spending loser compared to Trump. No one spends like Trump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,295 #9 February 12, 2020 11 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Thine own hate bubbleth over. Let go of your hate. There’s a difference between hate, disdain, and disapproval. Wendy P. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,819 #10 February 12, 2020 6 hours ago, turtlespeed said: The part where you completely ignore the things that HAVE been done. Translation: you can't fault a single one of my statements. How about showing some intellectual honesty for a change? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,252 #11 February 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, kallend said: How about showing some intellectual honesty for a change? Hi John, Me thinks you ask too much. Jerry Baumchen 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #12 February 12, 2020 10 hours ago, kallend said: Translation: you can't fault a single one of my statements. How about showing some intellectual honesty for a change? I didn't read them. I just know the tone. Again - Trump could cure cancer and you would complain. There isn't anything he could do, ever, that would improve your opinion. Your mind is closed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,819 #13 February 12, 2020 41 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: I didn't read them. I just know the tone. Again - Trump could cure cancer and you would complain. There isn't anything he could do, ever, that would improve your opinion. Your mind is closed. Trump IS cancer, and the cancer has metastasized to the Senate and the DoJ. You still haven't refuted a single statement in the OP. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #14 February 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, kallend said: Trump IS cancer, and the cancer has metastasized to the Senate and the DoJ. You still haven't refuted a single statement in the OP. I still haven't read it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 721 #15 February 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, kallend said: Trump IS cancer, and the cancer has metastasized to the Senate and the DoJ. You still haven't refuted a single statement in the OP. He never will. His mind is so closed he ignores factual evidence. Even brags about doing so. Seems like the standard far right line these days. Pissing the other party off at all costs, country be damned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #16 February 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, normiss said: He never will. His mind is so closed he ignores factual evidence. Even brags about doing so. Seems like the standard far right line these days. Pissing the other party off at all costs, country be damned. Does that make you the pot, or the kettle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,691 #17 February 12, 2020 3 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Turtle: Let go of your hate! Kallend: Can you fault my statements? Turtle: Your mind is closed. Kallend: You haven't refuted a single statement. Turtle: I still haven't read it. It's like the Onion in here today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,278 #18 February 12, 2020 2 hours ago, turtlespeed said: I still haven't read it. So you are trolling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,295 #19 February 12, 2020 3 hours ago, turtlespeed said: I still haven't read it. Consider using the “ignore user” button if their posts aren’t worth your while to read. I never thought I’d use it, but I finally did and I’m glad with the result. Some people just push a button a little too persistently, without ever stimulating constructive thought in me. Doesn’t mean they don’t stimulate others, just not me Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #20 February 12, 2020 42 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: So you are trolling. No - I'm pointing out that there is no reason to read it. I understand the drive behind the post. I also understand that the promises made were not realistic. I used to make the same self validating posts about Obama. There is no defence for "I'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" any more than the below - BUT - I can see the defense anyway - "It's not relevant - He's not the President anymore." Obama abandoned his commitment to "unprecedented" transparency. Obama has failed on his promise to close GITMO. Obama failed to end the war in Iraq and finish the job in Afghanistan. Obama broke his promise to pursue a "tough, smart and principled national security strategy." Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle-class. Obama broke his promise to allow Americans to keep their plans and lower costs under Obamacare. Obama failed to make immigration a top priority and pass comprehensive reform in his first year. Obama failed to "nail shut" the revolving door of lobbyists working in his administration. Obama broke his promise to bring both parties together to enact a bipartisan agenda. And so on . . . And then if you are going to say that it was because the republican majority in the house kept him from accomplishing these . . . well . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #21 February 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, wmw999 said: Consider using the “ignore user” button if their posts aren’t worth your while to read. I never thought I’d use it, but I finally did and I’m glad with the result. Some people just push a button a little too persistently, without ever stimulating constructive thought in me. Doesn’t mean they don’t stimulate others, just not me Wendy P. I generally like, and appreciate the Professor's posts - I just don't see the reason to waste my time with his Trump bashing. It serves no purpose for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,691 #22 February 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: No - I'm pointing out that there is no reason to read it. ??? Imagine you are arguing with a climate change denier, and the conversation goes something like this: Denier: Alarmists just want us to panic and give them money. They lie and feed us false claims! Turtle: Which claim is false? Denier: I don't know; I haven't read them. No reason to. Would you consider that person to have a valid opinion? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbohu 77 #23 February 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: There is no defence for "I'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it" any more than the below - BUT - I can see the defense anyway - "It's not relevant - He's not the President anymore." Obama abandoned his commitment to "unprecedented" transparency. Obama has failed on his promise to close GITMO. Obama failed to end the war in Iraq and finish the job in Afghanistan. Obama broke his promise to pursue a "tough, smart and principled national security strategy." Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle-class. Obama broke his promise to allow Americans to keep their plans and lower costs under Obamacare. Obama failed to make immigration a top priority and pass comprehensive reform in his first year. Obama failed to "nail shut" the revolving door of lobbyists working in his administration. Obama broke his promise to bring both parties together to enact a bipartisan agenda. And so on . . . Hmmm, yes. I am sure every single president has had intentions that he could not actually achieve in the end. The entire system is so intractable that I would be hugely surprised if that wasn't the case (in many ways that is a bad thing and in some ways that's a good thing...checks and balances and all that) BUT: Wouldn't you agree that, for example, there is a huge difference between many of these, for example: Obama wanting to close GITMO and then being unable to do so (possibly because of political backlash and resistance, but possibly also because of finding out much more about the complexity and issues involved in actually doing so, once he got all the information when he was in office) VERSUS Trump saying he will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it (when there is--in my mind...do you disagree on that?--just no way he actually really meant this, and was simply using it to get people hyped up) and then of course not even making any serious attempt to actually deliver on that (what possible attempt COULD he even have made?) I know that is just one example, but there are quite a few along these lines. Are you really saying you do not see a difference in those? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #24 February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, billvon said: ??? Imagine you are arguing with a climate change denier, and the conversation goes something like this: Denier: Alarmists just want us to panic and give them money. They lie and feed us false claims! Turtle: Which claim is false? Denier: I don't know; I haven't read them. No reason to. Would you consider that person to have a valid opinion? I'm not denying any of it. I'm actually giving John the benefit of the doubt, and taking his word for it. Again, though, it is the similar to the shit I used to post. It's the new boss, same as the old boss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #25 February 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, mbohu said: Hmmm, yes. I am sure every single president has had intentions that he could not actually achieve in the end. The entire system is so intractable that I would be hugely surprised if that wasn't the case (in many ways that is a bad thing and in some ways that's a good thing...checks and balances and all that) BUT: Wouldn't you agree that, for example, there is a huge difference between many of these, for example: Obama wanting to close GITMO and then being unable to do so (possibly because of political backlash and resistance, but possibly also because of finding out much more about the complexity and issues involved in actually doing so, once he got all the information when he was in office) VERSUS Trump saying he will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it (when there is--in my mind...do you disagree on that?--just no way he actually really meant this, and was simply using it to get people hyped up) and then of course not even making any serious attempt to actually deliver on that (what possible attempt COULD he even have made?) I know that is just one example, but there are quite a few along these lines. Are you really saying you do not see a difference in those? The wall . . . well, it sounded good as a promise to those that wanted to believe it. I find myself thinking he was so arrogant then, that he actually thought he had the leverage, and would make it happen.(which is laughable) Obama, I think, actually thought he could close Gitmo. He probably had a drive to right what he perceived as a horrible wrong. He found out it wasn't politically possible without more repercussions and the ROI wasn't worth it. The whole - "Keep your plan and your doctor" was all a load of shite - they new it would be bad. They knew it wouldn't lower costs by 2500 per family. It was a lie, plain and simple. BUT - in that line of thinking - probably no more of a lie than, say, when Trump said that he'd completely remove Obama care. Obama and his promise of transparency worked out as well as Trups declaration that he would drain the swamp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites