European clocks running slow because Kosovo isn’t paying the electric bill.

[jclalor 12]

Strangest thing I’ve read in a while.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/european-clocks-lose-six-minutes-dispute-power-electricity-grid

[gowlerk 1,912]

jclalor

Strangest thing I’ve read in a while.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/european-clocks-lose-six-minutes-dispute-power-electricity-grid

Yes, I saw that a couple days ago. I did not think it was technically possible to slow the frequency down like that. Someone here knows I bet.

[sundevil777 93]

I would expect voltage to drop, but not frequency.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[AlanS 1]

sundevil777

I would expect voltage to drop, but not frequency.

Over simplification.

The generators on a power grid (for the most part) are mechanical and the AC frequency (for the most part) comes from the speed of the rotors (RPM) in the generator. If everything is perfectly balances the power-in == power out. The frequency is spot on what it should be. 60 Hz US, 50 Hz Europe.

When the load increases above power-in, then the speed these generators rotate can drop since they are encountering more resistance than they can handle. That is when someone (i.e. a plant operator) needs to step in and and fire up an other generator to balance the load, and get everything back in balance.

Maybe someone else can explain it better.

[gowlerk 1,912]

In my simple mind I think I can understand that. Thanks.

[billvon 2,400]

>I would expect voltage to drop, but not frequency.

They typically both drop, although frequency is usually seen first. A generator will generate a given voltage at a given RPM, and RPM determines powerline frequency. In a very simple system (i.e. a Home Depot generator) they drop together when overloaded; you can see the voltage and frequency drop on a meter under a heavy load and you can hear the generator actually slow down. The throttle opens immediately to try to keep it at the right frequency, but it's not always fast enough, and the engine doesn't always have enough power to meet the surge of (say) a compressor starting. In those cases the generator relies on the momentum of the spinning generator/engine to get through the starting surge.

On bigger systems they can trim the rotor current to regulate the voltage (within a pretty narrow range.) Frequency still depends on RPM and when you overload the system the generators actually start to slow down; that's one reason that "spinning reserves" are important, because even the momentum of the rotors helps in keeping frequency stable.

If the frequency drops too much then you can start to saturate transformers which can cause them to overheat and fail. So before that happens they start to let the voltage drop as well; this usually reduces the current being drawn and lets the generators speed back up.

Side note - battery based energy storage systems (BESS) are getting lots of press because they can store energy for peak loads and recharge at night, but so far about 90% of the BESS systems sold do frequency and voltage stabilization rather than longer term energy storage - they store enough energy to get through those short peaks and prevent frequency/voltage drops. This allows the entire grid to run closer to its absolute maximum power without seeing problems like the ones above.

[ryoder 1,384]

Tom Scott tackles the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bij-JjzCa7o

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[IJskonijn 38]

The weird thing is indeed noticing my bedside alarm clock being behind all other clocks (phone, laptop etc) in my home. And yup, that's the only one keeping time by using the grid frequency.

And I'm not really surprised. There is still a lot of tension in that part of Europe, so I think we're actually lucky it surfaces this way, rather than a repeat of the Kosovo war.

[billeisele 122]

here in SC there are rare occasions when we use voltage and frequency reduction to manage short term grid issues, once it's under control we raise the frequency to correct the clocks, the changes are minor and no one has ever noticed

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[BillyVance 34]

When I was in college in the late 80's, I spent one summer in Rochester NY working a co-op job for the City of Rochester. I stayed at a friend's house for that summer in Webster. It was a pretty old house, with the old wiring, etc. My bedroom wasn't much bigger than the average master walk-in closet.

It didn't take long for me to realize something was off with the electricity. My alarm clock ran too fast, and it was digital too. As much as 45-50 minutes fast per night.

The day before that realization I woke up, looked at the clock, muttered "fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck" got dressed, flew down the stairs and ran out leaving my friend and his dad confused as hell.

Halfway to work I saw a bank sign that showed the time and I was like WTF? I was way early.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban