America First Energy Policy

[billvon 2,446]

>EV's had a good start in the 90's but died of infant mortality from progressive laws.

Actually the opposite is true. The only reason ANY commercial EV's were ever built was because of the ZEV mandate in California. The first commercial EV, the EV1, was built by GM in response to the California ZEV mandate which required a (small) fraction of any cars being sold in California be zero emissions. As soon as the ZEV mandate was delayed, GM recalled all the EV1's and crushed them.

Still, they learned a lot about EV's and created a small demand for them.

When the delayed ZEV requirements started to kick in, manufacturers responded with the Leaf, the RAV4 EV, the Honda FIT etc.

>Fuck legislation, the market is well on its way to sorting this out on its own.

Legislation got us here. I am glad the market is responding - because market forces are almost always more effective than legislation.

[normiss 634]

My F-250 is 6500lbs wet, add an 18,000lb fifth wheel, some groceries and a couple humans and we're sitting around 26,000 or better.

I hate that I have to take a few brick roads between the highway and the house.


Still a lightweight compared to 18+ wheelers!

[brenthutch 388]

kallend

************ roads paid for by "big truck" drivers.

Road damage per axle is proportional to the cube of axle weight.

Big trucks are grossly UNDER taxed for the amount of road damage they cause.

Ford F-150 4040lbs
Tesla model S 4608lbs

You were saying?

If you think a F-150 is "big" as trucks go, your girl friend/wife must be sorely disappointed.

As usual, you are missing the point. I will type slowly...
Americas favorite TRUCK weighs less and causes less road damage (on a per vehicle basis) than BillV's beloved Tesla and unlike the Tesla, F150s pay for the roads they use via fuel taxes.

[normiss 634]

You're missing a point, LT's are considered cars.
Not part of the heavy trucks damaging roads data other than the car category.

[jakee 1,263]

Quote

As usual, you are missing the point. I will type slowly...
Americas favorite TRUCK weighs less and causes less road damage (on a per vehicle basis) than BillV's beloved Tesla and unlike the Tesla, F150s pay for the roads they use via fuel taxes.

America's favourite truck weighs less or more than a Model S, because there are loads of versions of the Model S.

And, as you know, Kallend's point is that the difference in road damage between 4500lb vehicle and a 4600lb vehicle is less than neglible, since the road damage that either of them causes is neglible compared to heavy commercial haulage.

But hey, if you have nothing better to do feel free to continue wasting your time splitting hairs

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 388]

normiss

You're missing a point, LT's are considered cars.
Not part of the heavy trucks damaging roads data other than the car category.

Just what does the "T" in LTs (no apostrophe as it is plural and not possessive) stand for.

[brenthutch 388]

I never mentioned commercial trucks, anymore than I mentioned M1 tanks on our highways. It's a red herring brought up someone else to distract from the simple, some would say inconvenient, facts I have laid out.

[jakee 1,263]

brenthutch

I never mentioned commercial trucks, anymore than I mentioned M1 tanks on our highways. It's a red herring brought up someone else to distract from the simple, some would say inconvenient, facts I have laid out.

A) You said big truck. If you didn't want anyone to thin you meant BIG trucks then maybe you shoulda been more specific.

B) The assertion that Model Ss don't cause measurably more damage to the roads than F150s, and the assertion that the majority of road damage is done by commercial haulage are not distractions or red herrings, they are directly relevant to your 'facts'.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 388]

I can't make more simple then this
"Total fossil fuel subsidies declined by 15 percent, from $4.0 billion to $3.4 billion."
"Solar led the various renewables with almost a 5-fold increase in subsidy (both electricity-related and non-electricity related) from $1.1 billion to $5.3 billion and led electricity sector subsidies on a unit of production basis.
Wind subsidies increased by 9 percent from $5.4 billion to $5.9 billion"

5.9+5.3=11.1
11.1>3.4
Renewables pay next to nothing in taxes.
Fossil fuels contribute >$100 billion in taxes.
To take it any further, we would have to have a conversation on "what the definition of "is" is."

[billvon 2,446]

>Americas favorite TRUCK weighs less and causes less road damage (on a per
>vehicle basis) than BillV's beloved Tesla

Ford F-150 truck weight: 4049 to 5236 lbs
Tesla weight: 2877 to 5381 lbs, all models

Max road weight, Ford F-150 truck: 8536 lbs (3300 lbs useful load)
Max road weight, Tesla Model S 90D: 5710 lbs (1062 lbs useful load)

[billvon 2,446]

Quote

Renewables pay next to nothing in taxes.
Fossil fuels contribute >$100 billion in taxes.

Per Trump, that makes renewables companies smart.

[brenthutch 388]

You need to pay more attention, I said "big truck guys" in response to BillV's sophomoric assertion, "guys with small penises - and low IQ's - can buy big trucks!"
The best selling large truck in America is the F150.

[normiss 634]

So you said "big truck guys" and then tried to weasel the F-150 in your argument.
It's not a "big truck".
You know this Mr. Semantics, which is why you're twisting it.
Weak fu.

[jakee 1,263]

brenthutch

You need to pay more attention, I said "big truck guys"

Exactly. And when other people saw you write that, it is what they repsonded to.

Not that it matters at all, because the observations about car road damage levels vs commercial haulage damage levels still hold true.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 388]

normiss

So you said "big truck guys" and then tried to weasel the F-150 in your argument.
It's not a "big truck".
You know this Mr. Semantics, which is why you're twisting it.
Weak fu.

Ok, I didn't think that Bill was referring to commercial truck owner/operators when he said, "guys with small penises - and low IQ's - can buy big trucks!" I assumed he was taking about pick-up trucks, but obviously I was wrong. When I think of pick-up trucks I think of F150s. I'm not playing semantics.

[gowlerk 1,940]

So far we have "pickup truck owner have small penises" to go with "Prius and Tesla owners are douches". Got it. Kindergarten is out now kids, time for all of you to go for a nap.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 634]

They took my nap mat after kindergarten.
At this point in my life that seems to be entirely backwards.

[billvon 2,446]

>So far we have "pickup truck owner have small penises" to go with "Prius and
>Tesla owners are douches"

Now, don't go starting with your "stereotypes are often incorrect" liberal nonsense!

[headoverheels 292]

brenthutch

Exxon can't have very good tax breaks when they pay more than $30 billion a year in corporate income tax.

Not sure where you come up with that number, and maybe it is correct, but I find that over the past 12 months XOM has paid closer to $0.8 billion in corporate income taxes.

[brenthutch 388]

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/01/08/companies-paying-the-most-taxes/3/

[headoverheels 292]

Those are 2012 year numbers. They paid $24b in '13, $18b in '14, $5.4b in '15. The end of '16 isn't reported yet, but looks to be heading for maybe about $1b, with negative taxes in two of the past 4 quarters.

[brenthutch 388]

headoverheels

Those are 2012 year numbers. They paid $24b in '13, $18b in '14, $5.4b in '15. The end of '16 isn't reported yet, but looks to be heading for maybe about $1b, with negative taxes in two of the past 4 quarters.

I just Googled and that was the first one that came up. I would not quarrel with your numbers I would just compare them to the taxes Tesla AND Solar City combined.
2012 $0
2013 $0
2014 $0
2015 $0

[billvon 2,446]

>I would not quarrel with your numbers I would just compare them to the taxes
>Tesla AND Solar City combined.
>2012 $0
>2013 $0
>2014 $0
>2015 $0

Sounds like they're pretty smart.

[brenthutch 388]

Elon Musk and Donald J. Trump, your heros! Getting Rich on OPM, (other people's money). Yet you accuse hard working Americans, like the commercial truck drivers, of having low IQs and small penises. That makes me sad.

[billvon 2,446]

>Yet you accuse hard working Americans, like the commercial truck drivers, of
>having low IQs and small penises. That makes me sad.

Well, be sad no more! You will be happy to hear that you have, once again, misunderstood.