turtlespeed 212 #76 June 20, 2015 jgoose71 ********* Unfortunately, incredible amounts of stupid are not disqualifying when it comes to gun ownership. Or breeding. which is much, much worse.the two are not mutually exclusive. The next thing you know there is going to be a waiting period before you are allowed to try for a "Darwin Award." Oh, please no. Let them "survival of the fittest" themselves away.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #77 June 20, 2015 turtlespeed ************ Unfortunately, incredible amounts of stupid are not disqualifying when it comes to gun ownership. Or breeding. which is much, much worse.the two are not mutually exclusive. The next thing you know there is going to be a waiting period before you are allowed to try for a "Darwin Award." Oh, please no. Let them "survival of the fittest" themselves away. Just so long as they don't take anyone else with them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #78 June 20, 2015 >The next thing you know there is going to be a waiting period before you are allowed to >try for a "Darwin Award." There generally is. In skydiving it's called "student status." In terms of alcohol it's called the drinking age, and in terms of driving it's called driver's ed (which generally gets you your license a little early.) Of course people find ways around those as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 268 #79 June 24, 2015 Andy9o8******....and who emphasize practical alternatives.... The man out weighed her by 100lbs, was a little bit crazy, and had a knife. What would you consider a "practical alternative?" Semantics aside on whether I chose the best phrase (maybe I didn't?), I've not had military or tactical training, so I'll defer to professional experts in the field such as TriGirl and Winsor. Their posts seem instructive. Not to mention the fact that MOST guys I'm regularly in contact with also outweigh me by 100 lbs. My post still stands. No, this woman did not have a firearm. No, she did not have any other tactical training (that we're aware of -- or even firearms training that we're aware of). I've also escaped from a relationship with a guy who would probably was capable of going this far, had I stuck around much longer (well before I had any of this training). I say all this because it goes to show that I've been there, and still insist simply having a gun would have given her very little increased chance for survival (or taking him out with her). Bottom line -- he wanted her dead. He could have chosen from a long list of ways to make that happen, and she could have chosen from a long list of ways to mitigate that. Would a firearm have helped her if he had messed with her car? Set an IED? No. Could it have helped her in the situation that actually went down? Yes, it is possible; but not probable. To imply (as the headline did) that the SOLE reason he was able to kill her was because she was still waiting for a permit is, as I said before, both absurd and irresponsible.See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #80 June 24, 2015 TriGirl*********....and who emphasize practical alternatives.... The man out weighed her by 100lbs, was a little bit crazy, and had a knife. What would you consider a "practical alternative?" Semantics aside on whether I chose the best phrase (maybe I didn't?), I've not had military or tactical training, so I'll defer to professional experts in the field such as TriGirl and Winsor. Their posts seem instructive. Not to mention the fact that MOST guys I'm regularly in contact with also outweigh me by 100 lbs. My post still stands. No, this woman did not have a firearm. No, she did not have any other tactical training (that we're aware of -- or even firearms training that we're aware of). I've also escaped from a relationship with a guy who would probably was capable of going this far, had I stuck around much longer (well before I had any of this training). I say all this because it goes to show that I've been there, and still insist simply having a gun would have given her very little increased chance for survival (or taking him out with her). Bottom line -- he wanted her dead. He could have chosen from a long list of ways to make that happen, and she could have chosen from a long list of ways to mitigate that. Would a firearm have helped her if he had messed with her car? Set an IED? No. Could it have helped her in the situation that actually went down? Yes, it is possible; but not probable. To imply (as the headline did) that the SOLE reason he was able to kill her was because she was still waiting for a permit is, as I said before, both absurd and irresponsible. Well, I would submit to you that if she had been allowed to get her firearm in a reasonable amount of time (which would have allowed her time to train, 2 months waiting remember) it would have increased her odds of survival, if even a little. As it sits now, she's dead."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #81 June 24, 2015 >Well, I would submit to you that if she had been allowed to get her firearm in a >reasonable amount of time (which would have allowed her time to train, 2 months >waiting remember) it would have increased her odds of survival, if even a little. Definitely. And if that woman from St. Louis who shot herself in the head had had to wait longer to get her gun, it would have also increased her odds of survival. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #82 June 25, 2015 billvon>Well, I would submit to you that if she had been allowed to get her firearm in a >reasonable amount of time (which would have allowed her time to train, 2 months >waiting remember) it would have increased her odds of survival, if even a little. Definitely. And if that woman from St. Louis who shot herself in the head had had to wait longer to get her gun, it would have also increased her odds of survival. People do stupid shit to get themselves killed all the time. that does not mean that you punish everyone for it. The path you are walking down looks just like the scene at the end of "iRobot" where everyone is locked down for their own protection. Try as you might, you can't wrap the world in bubble wrap for everyone's safety and sooner or later everyone dies. It's just a fact of life."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #83 June 25, 2015 jgoose71***>Well, I would submit to you that if she had been allowed to get her firearm in a >reasonable amount of time (which would have allowed her time to train, 2 months >waiting remember) it would have increased her odds of survival, if even a little. Definitely. And if that woman from St. Louis who shot herself in the head had had to wait longer to get her gun, it would have also increased her odds of survival. People do stupid shit to get themselves killed all the time. that does not mean that you punish everyone for it. The path you are walking down looks just like the scene at the end of "iRobot" where everyone is locked down for their own protection. Try as you might, you can't wrap the world in bubble wrap for everyone's safety and sooner or later everyone dies. It's just a fact of life. Some people have been killed by their reserves, but far more have been saved. Some people have been killed by RSLs but far more have been saved. Some people have been killed by AADs but far more have been saved. Some people have been killed by air bags but far more have been saved, Some people have been killed by seat belts but far more have been saved. The smart money goes with the statistics.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #84 June 25, 2015 ***'ve also escaped from a relationship with a guy who would probably was capable of going this far, had I stuck around much longer I said I was sorry. I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadde 0 #85 June 26, 2015 jgoose71************....and who emphasize practical alternatives.... The man out weighed her by 100lbs, was a little bit crazy, and had a knife. What would you consider a "practical alternative?" Semantics aside on whether I chose the best phrase (maybe I didn't?), I've not had military or tactical training, so I'll defer to professional experts in the field such as TriGirl and Winsor. Their posts seem instructive. Not to mention the fact that MOST guys I'm regularly in contact with also outweigh me by 100 lbs. My post still stands. No, this woman did not have a firearm. No, she did not have any other tactical training (that we're aware of -- or even firearms training that we're aware of). I've also escaped from a relationship with a guy who would probably was capable of going this far, had I stuck around much longer (well before I had any of this training). I say all this because it goes to show that I've been there, and still insist simply having a gun would have given her very little increased chance for survival (or taking him out with her). Bottom line -- he wanted her dead. He could have chosen from a long list of ways to make that happen, and she could have chosen from a long list of ways to mitigate that. Would a firearm have helped her if he had messed with her car? Set an IED? No. Could it have helped her in the situation that actually went down? Yes, it is possible; but not probable. To imply (as the headline did) that the SOLE reason he was able to kill her was because she was still waiting for a permit is, as I said before, both absurd and irresponsible. Well, I would submit to you that if she had been allowed to get her firearm in a reasonable amount of time (which would have allowed her time to train, 2 months waiting remember) it would have increased her odds of survival, if even a little. As it sits now, she's dead. As the statistics in the links someone provided in the church shooting thread said - the probablility for her death would have increased with a gun for the reasons TriGirl listed... The statistics said that there is a much higher risk that the gun is used against her by her ex than her defending herself with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 268 #86 June 26, 2015 jgoose71 Well, I would submit to you that if she had been allowed to get her firearm in a reasonable amount of time (which would have allowed her time to train, 2 months waiting remember) it would have increased her odds of survival, if even a little. As it sits now, she's dead. What other preparation did she take during that time, for alternative ways to protect/defend herself? If she just sat around waiting to be able to get a firearm, then she is the example of why focusing JUST on the ability to own one is the irresponsible course of action that lead to her tunnel vision (e.g., only a gun can protect her). So many other options exercised would have increased her chances of survival even more. By waiting and relying only on the ability to acquire a firearm, she is dead (going back to your logic). My point of view is also that the ex is the reason she's dead. He's the one who ambushed and killed her.See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
