Chicago Becoming a Safer Place to Live

[rushmc 18]

Once again the anti-gun crowd hysteria is proven false (for now) as it (Chicago) follows the same trends as FL, IA and TX did when shall issue started
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/24/chicago-crime-rate-drops-as-concealed-carry-gun-pe/?page=all

Quote

Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city’s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.

“It isn’t any coincidence crime rates started to go down when concealed carry was permitted. Just the idea that the criminals don’t know who’s armed and who isn’t has a deterrence effect,” said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. “The police department hasn’t changed a single tactic — they haven’t announced a shift in policy or of course — and yet you have these incredible numbers.”

As of July 29 the state had 83,183 applications for concealed carry and had issued 68,549 licenses. By the end of the year, Mr. Pearson estimates, 100,000 Illinois citizens will be packing. When Illinois began processing requests in January, gun training and shooting classes — which are required for the application — were filling up before the rifle association was able to schedule them, Mr. Pearson said.

John
this is good news
Why didnt you post this ???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 340]

So Illinois is now a shall-issue state, yet requires gun training and shooting classes? Seems reasonable to me, as long as the classes are actually offered so the requirement can be met in a timely and convenient manner.

Georgia is a shall-issue state that requires nothing (no training, no demonstration of knowledge of the law, no demonstration of any level of proficiency with firearms) other than a clean background check for a permit to be issued.

The conclusion that any decline in crime must be due to the change to shall-issue status is just a correlation/causation confirmation bias type argument. What were crime rates doing for the last 5 or 10 years before the change? What happened to crime rates in socioeconomically similar states that did not change their concealed carry policy? If crime was declining anyway, before the change, it's not valid to claim any decrease since the change must be due to more people carrying. On the other hand if crime rates were level or increasing, and suddenly dropped in the one state that changed its policy, you might have a reasonable argument.

Georgia has very loose gun laws and has recently loosened them further to allow people to carry in businesses and churches [unless those businesses and churches post prominent signs stating otherwise], government buildings [unless they install metal detectors and armed security, an expense many smaller municipalities can't afford], even airports [the public areas, not past security]. Georgia is also a pretty active death penalty state. You might think Georgia has a very low crime rate, if you believe that high carrying rates influence crime. However, you would be wrong: Georgia has the 11th highest murder rate in the country.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 1,635]

rushmc

Once again the anti-gun crowd hysteria is proven false (for now) as it (Chicago) follows the same trends as FL, IA and TX did when shall issue started
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/24/chicago-crime-rate-drops-as-concealed-carry-gun-pe/?page=all

Quote

Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city’s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.

“It isn’t any coincidence crime rates started to go down when concealed carry was permitted. Just the idea that the criminals don’t know who’s armed and who isn’t has a deterrence effect,” said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. “The police department hasn’t changed a single tactic — they haven’t announced a shift in policy or of course — and yet you have these incredible numbers.”

As of July 29 the state had 83,183 applications for concealed carry and had issued 68,549 licenses. By the end of the year, Mr. Pearson estimates, 100,000 Illinois citizens will be packing. When Illinois began processing requests in January, gun training and shooting classes — which are required for the application — were filling up before the rifle association was able to schedule them, Mr. Pearson said.

John
this is good news
Why didnt you post this ???

Are you still reading Sun Myung Moon's propaganda?

Funny how other right wing posters have been ragging on Chicago all year for its upturn in murders.

No mention of change in policing methods, or the fact that the murder rate has been decreasing for several years now or the fact that Chicago doesn't even make the top 20 US cities in violent crime rate, being behind such gun loving places as Memphis, Birmingham and Little Rock.

Oh, and I have posted this a whole bunch of times this year already (most recently on 10th September, just 19 days ago). Just more evidence that you don't think before you press "post".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

GeorgiaDon

The conclusion that any decline in crime must be due to the change to shall-issue status is just a correlation/causation confirmation bias type argument.

No doubt. Chicago has done everything it can to continue to deny its citizens their right to own a gun and so few have managed to jump the hoops that I can't imagine it made any impact. The link talked about statewide CCWs, not within Cook Co.

But Kallend started that one when he tried to blame the just changed laws around gun access for increased murders in Chicago.

[kallend 1,635]

kelpdiver

***
The conclusion that any decline in crime must be due to the change to shall-issue status is just a correlation/causation confirmation bias type argument.

No doubt. Chicago has done everything it can to continue to deny its citizens their right to own a gun and so few have managed to jump the hoops that I can't imagine it made any impact. The link talked about statewide CCWs, not within Cook Co.

But Kallend started that one when he tried to blame the just changed laws around gun access for increased murders in Chicago.

Please cite the post in which I did that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

eh...you know how to use the search function. 50,000 posts of wankage.

[kallend 1,635]

kelpdiver

eh...you know how to use the search function. 50,000 posts of wankage.

So use it, then. Should be an easy search for someone as experienced as you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Boomerdog 0]

IMHO..."Chicago Becoming A Safer Place to Live" has been out there long enough in the theater of the absurd that this phrase deserves a permanent and irrevocable place of oxymorons that rivals the term "jumbo shrimp."

[kallend 1,635]

Boomerdog

IMHO..."Chicago Becoming A Safer Place to Live" has been out there long enough in the theater of the absurd that this phrase deserves a permanent and irrevocable place of oxymorons that rivals the term "jumbo shrimp."

So how do you feel about the 20 US cities with higher murder rates than Chicago? Places like Miami, Orlando, Memphis, St. Louis...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[craddock 0]

kallend

So how do you feel about the 20 US cities with higher murder rates than Chicago? Places like Miami, Orlando, Memphis, St. Louis...

Exactly. The only time I felt unsafe in Chicago was when I parked in front of some projects down by US Cellular Field to make a call from my truck. A little awareness would be key there and even then it was a non issue. Just drive away to a better area. I love the downtown area and called on accounts all over Chicagoland with out ever wishing or wanting a firearm with me.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[mirage62 0]

Quote

Georgia has the 11th highest murder rate in the country

Yeah it's all these cops gunning down innocent people

All kidding aside....I wonder what Georgia rate would be without Atlanta? Just seems that Atlanta rate is way up, but that's a guess....

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

So how do you feel about the 20 US cities with higher murder rates than Chicago? Places like Miami, Orlando, Memphis, St. Louis...

It's really really bad.

But what you are really saying is that while Chicago does not suck as much as the other cities you reference. Guess what...Chicago STILL sucks.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

***eh...you know how to use the search function. 50,000 posts of wankage.

So use it, then. Should be an easy search for someone as experienced as you.

$200/hour.

[kallend 1,635]

kelpdiver

******eh...you know how to use the search function. 50,000 posts of wankage.

So use it, then. Should be an easy search for someone as experienced as you.

$200/hour.

Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,635]

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/14/despite-recent-shootings-chicago-nowhere-near-u-s-murder-capital/

heyjackass.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/yearly_homicide_trend-320x275.png

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

I've denied you one of your favorite talking points every time Chicago sees a surge in murders (basically every other Tuesday). While it's a waste of time trying to look up your tens of thousands of posts on the subject, it's a lot easier to find my own.

[kallend 1,635]

kelpdiver

***
Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

I've denied you one of your favorite talking points every time Chicago sees a surge in murders (basically every other Tuesday). While it's a waste of time trying to look up your tens of thousands of posts on the subject, it's a lot easier to find my own.

Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

Tell you what - you agree that it would be hypocritical to have tried to used recent years violence as to support your claim that the 2nd Amendment is bad for Chicago, and I'll waste the time to find your postings that do exactly that.

The only valid response to this would be "yes" or "never you mind,"

[kallend 1,635]

kelpdiver

***
Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

Tell you what - you agree that it would be hypocritical to have tried to used recent years violence as to support your claim that the 2nd Amendment is bad for Chicago, and I'll waste the time to find your postings that do exactly that.

The only valid response to this would be "yes" or "never you mind,"

Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

I thought repetitive postings like that were not allowed.

Where ARE those mods when they are needed?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[craddock 0]

If I have time I will find them. I remember them but it is sifting through thousands of posts. I have a major sleeping issue however so there are times that I have nothing better to do in the middle of the night. The repetitive post do remind me of my elementary school kids nasty classmate. Some of us could do well trying to act half our age

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

******
Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

Tell you what - you agree that it would be hypocritical to have tried to used recent years violence as to support your claim that the 2nd Amendment is bad for Chicago, and I'll waste the time to find your postings that do exactly that.

The only valid response to this would be "yes" or "never you mind,"

Translation: kelpdiver made a claim which he is unable to back up with any proof.

if you said yes, I would have backed it up. But since you instead took the extra effort to write 15 other words, it's pretty obvious the intent is to waste my time.

All the regulars know your history all too well. If it looks like a hypocrite and talks like one....