0
Anvilbrother

Stop sending guns and money to the middle east!

Recommended Posts

ryoder

*********

Quote


We should apply the Warren Principle...



What is the "Warren Principle"?


Send lawyers, guns and money.

wtf do you need a lawyer for, just give me a gun...

They make great human shields!:D

Andy's afraid of guns, let alone the KGB...doubt he could practice in Central America anyway...
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is an article from the weekend Wall Street Journal.
The ISIS boys are ready to rock.
And they are very well funded, all by themselves.
Seem they've hit all the major banks along the way.
I need to figure out what to do if I survive a nuclear explosion in NYC...
Like, how to get back to Westchester County? Stuff like that.
Any suggestions out there?

========================================================================
The Caliphate Rises
Osama bin Laden's political project begins to form in Iraq.
June 27, 2014 6:34 p.m. ET

The jihadists of the Islamic State of Iraq and al Sham (ISIS) continue to consolidate their grip on Sunni Iraq. They control most major cities, they took over the border crossings with Jordan this week, and now they're re-opening banks and government offices and establishing political control.

Welcome to the new Middle East caliphate, a state whose leader is considered the religious and political successor to the prophet Mohammed and is thus sovereign over all Muslims. The last time a caliphate was based in Baghdad was 1258, the year it was conquered by the ravaging Mongols. Now the jihadists aim to do the ravaging, and it isn't clear that the Obama Administration has a plan to depose them.
Enlarge Image

Jordanian soldiers on their tanks at the Ruwaished Iraq-Jordan border crossing on Monday. EPA

It's important to understand how large a setback for American interests and security this is. Establishing a caliphate in the Middle East was the main political project of Osama bin Laden's life. Current al Qaeda leader Ayman al Zawahiri once said a new caliphate would signal a turning of world history "against the empire of the United States and the world's Jewish government."

In 2005, a Jordanian journalist named Fouad Hussein wrote a book on al Qaeda's "second generation," which focused on the thinking of terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was killed by U.S. forces in 2006. The book described a seven-phase plan, beginning with an "awakening" of Islamic consciousness with the September 11 attacks. Among other predictions, it foresaw an effort to "clear plans to partition Syria, Lebanon and Jordan into sectarian statelets to reshape the region." In phase four, timed to happen between 2010 and 2013, the Arab world's secular regimes would be toppled.

And then? Phase five would see the "declaration of the caliphate or Islamic state" sometime between 2013 and 2016. This was to be followed by "total war," or "the beginning of the confrontation between faith and disbelief, which would begin in earnest after the establishment of the Islamic caliphate."
***

None of this means that events over the past decade have been dictated by an al Qaeda master plan. But you might forgive a legion of current or would-be jihadists for thinking as much. Al Qaeda is a movement driven by a combination of fantasy and fanaticism. Events that appear to corroborate the former will inevitably fuel the latter.

The plan of phases should also serve as warning that ISIS will not be content running a shambolic rump state in the desert. The group now sits on a large arsenal of weapons along with a horde of cash and gold bullion, potentially making ISIS the world's deadliest and richest terror organization. Though there are conflicting reports on whether ISIS has captured Iraq's largest oil refinery at Baiji, ISIS clearly intends to seize economic assets to operate them.

With oil and tax revenue, ISIS can dispense services and finance a jihadist army. The Journal reported this week on an ISIS recruitment video that shows armed militants speaking with British and Australian accents and extolling the virtues of jihad in Syria and Iraq. ISIS now controls territory from western Syria to the suburbs of Baghdad. Even if it doesn't try to take the Iraqi capital, it can reinforce existing positions and make any counterattack by Iraq's army costly and dangerous.

A jihadist state will also put more pressure on America's allies in Jordan who are already under siege by refugees from Syria. The same goes for the Kurds in northern Iraq, though the Kurdish peshmerga are professional fighters who ISIS would be wary of challenging now. But as the years go on, the oil in Kirkuk would be a tempting ISIS target.

One question is whether ISIS has learned from its failed reign of terror in Anbar province in 2005 and 2006, when it alienated local Sunni sheiks through sheer brutality and drove them into an alliance with the U.S. military. From Afghanistan to Egypt to Algeria, the Islamists' political Achilles' heel has always been their penchant to go too far. But it would be reckless for the Iraqi government or Obama Administration to count on them self-destructing one more time.

Then again, it isn't clear President Obama has any strategy at all. In his comments last week, we heard a lot about the need for political reform in Baghdad, along with his trademark admonition to "ask hard questions before we take action abroad, particularly military action." At no point did the President speak of "defeating" ISIS as a U.S. goal.

Perhaps Mr. Obama imagines there is no point in playing "Whac-A-Mole," as he put it, "wherever these terrorist organizations may pop up." But the core contention of all jihadist groups is that supposed superpowers like the U.S. always weary of a long fight, and that powerful weapons are of no use in timid hands.

Perhaps the government in Baghdad will pull together politically and militarily to halt ISIS and take back the cities it so swiftly seized. But hoping to get lucky is not a strategy. Meantime, brush up on your Islamic history and terminology. A mere 13 years after the U.S. chased al Qaeda and the Taliban from Afghanistan, and a mere three years after bin Laden's death, the terror master's political project is returning to life on President Obama's watch.
We are all engines of karma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


I personally don't see much evidence other than ISIS being much more than a paper tiger:



Quote


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/29/the-paper-tiger-of-the-tigris-how-isis-took-tikrit-without-a-fight.html



thedailybeast? ah, please....

Quote


http://www.inss.org.il/index.aspx?id=4538&articleid=7116



Good article. As it states, the area "conquered" by ISIS is a mainly Sunni area. The "Iraqi" forces there were Sunni, and they simply left their posts to join the ISIS movement because Sunnis are sick of Maliki.

The main point you should be seeing, IMO, is this:

Quote


The main danger comes from the enormous economic capital the organization accumulated in Iraq when it took over the banks in areas abandoned by the Iraqi army - and which the local police failed to protect.



There is no Iraq anymore. Never really was, without a dictator to keep it together. You've got Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds. Borders aren't clear yet, but it's pretty set now they don't want to live together.

The Sunni guys have a lot of money, relatively speaking, and a lot of free-will about how they want the world to look. They should be taken seriously on these points alone, IMO.

***
At this stage, while it appears that there is no immediate and direct threat to Israel’s security from the events in Iraq, the resulting atmosphere could strengthen global jihadi elements operating in countries near Israel.



Agreed, we really don't need to worry about Israel. They've proven more than once they are adults who can take care of themselves.

It's the people elsewhere, e.g. the rest of the Western democracies, that don't seem able to take care of themselves anymore. ISIS and their funds are going to challenge the way of life against whom they deem to be infidel. And, that has the potential to be far more effective than most may realize, IMO. Western democracies are essentially broke, both financially and wrto free-will. I do not think this is going to get better anytime soon, if ever. About the only way left out for Western democracies, who have unbelievable unfunded liabilities, is a major world war. The reign of the US dollar in world markets is rapidly coming to an end. Our way of life, and those folks that rely on the dollar, is going to be significantly impacted.
We are all engines of karma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


That was the reason given we had to fight the original war in Iraq. I guess that didn't work out too well.



I figured it was a BS reason, also, at the time. There's enough money floating around with "extremists" now that they soon should be able to buy a kiloton range atomic weapon, without their Saudi master's permission. I'm still going to work ;) but having a rough answer of what to do in a really bad situation doesn't seem like paranoia to me anymore.
We are all engines of karma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


..attempted genocide...



Attempted??? :D. Those people hate each other.

And western democratic leaders actually think they'll be able to sing Kumbaya with these people... It's laughable, IMO. Utterly detached from reality, and insane with their repeated attempts thinking that the outcome will be different. Ain't going to happen.
We are all engines of karma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


And western democratic leaders actually think they'll be able to sing Kumbaya with these people... It's laughable, IMO. Utterly detached from reality, and insane with their repeated attempts thinking that the outcome will be different. Ain't going to happen.



The only way the west will be able to directly influence anything is by selectively arming militias in return for loyalty. Now this is dangerous game to play. In Afghanistan we let Pakistan decide who gets what, that was a huge mistake. Now in Iraq it's the arm chair Jihadis in Saudi Arabia and Qatar arming organizations such as ISIS. Their primary aim is to weaken Iranian influence. It's all a big cluster fuck and we should let them take of it themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

There's enough money floating around with "extremists" now that they soon should be able to buy a kiloton range atomic weapon, without their Saudi master's permission.



So stolen Iraqi money is fully fungible, but no one will take the US dollar anymore?

Please.

- Dan G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amazon

***Dont hold your breath. Im almost certain we will be back over there.



I think we should just take all their money and send them all the guns they need to solve their own 1300 year old stupidity.

Sounds like the mentality of the 8% of legal gun dealers in the U.S that sell guns illegally to criminals...
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coreece

******Dont hold your breath. Im almost certain we will be back over there.



I think we should just take all their money and send them all the guns they need to solve their own 1300 year old stupidity.

Sounds like the mentality of the 8% of legal gun dealers in the U.S that sell guns illegally to criminals...

You have not kept track of the military industrial complex in this country have you?
Now be a good little boy and go research just where the USA is in weapons production and sales to foreign countries. ( hint the details are not on youtube or some biblical scripture)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
billvon

>Now we can see some more attempted genocide.

Fortunately we won't be a part of it this time.



You honestly believe we were trying to commit genocide?

You HAVE to get your priorities straight.:S
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
billvon

>You honestly believe we were trying to commit genocide?

Nope. Re-read my reply and you might see what I posted.



Yes. You said:
Quote

Fortunately we won't be a part of it this time.



Emphasis Mine

That tells me that you believe we tried to commit genocide LAST time.

Or at least the "We" that included you.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
turtlespeed

***>You honestly believe we were trying to commit genocide?

Nope. Re-read my reply and you might see what I posted.



Yes. You said:
Quote

Fortunately we won't be a part of it this time.



Emphasis Mine

That tells me that you believe we tried to commit genocide LAST time.

Or at least the "We" that included you.

I notice this has been lost in the shuffle . . . care to rebut?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>That tells me that you believe we tried to commit genocide LAST time.

Nope. Again, read before replying. We do not try to commit genocide, but we end up being part of it when (for example) we sell helicopters and chemical weapon precursors to Saddam Hussein - and provide him with military intelligence tidbits - and he uses them to kill tens of thousands of Kurds.

A good solution would be to stop sending weapons and money to the latest tin-pot dictator the Middle East produces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
billvon

>That tells me that you believe we tried to commit genocide LAST time.

Nope. Again, read before replying. We do not try to commit genocide, but we end up being part of it when (for example) we sell helicopters and chemical weapon precursors to Saddam Hussein - and provide him with military intelligence tidbits - and he uses them to kill tens of thousands of Kurds.

A good solution would be to stop sending weapons and money to the latest tin-pot dictator the Middle East produces.



I don't see all that in what you wrote.

It still looks to any reasonable person that you think we tried to commit genocide in the past, and will not be doing that, to your relief, THIS TIME.:)
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0