champu 1 #26 January 13, 2014 RonD1120Folks are free to pursue whatever sexual outlet they want. That is as long as it is not with me, my family or my church community. Does using the term "marriage" to describe a union automatically include people in your church community and give you jurisdiction to intervene? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 January 13, 2014 normissYet you (supposedly) chose females. You claim that to be natural. Same for the other team. What do you think the split out is? if you had 100 gay people, and had the magic ability to know why each of them are that way - you'd have 100 reasons. I wonder if you could roughly categorize the reasons what would be the split out: 1 - healthy, no choice, it's just that way 2 - chose on purpose, likes it, works for them 3 - didn't really care either way, but this works for them 4 - bad choice due to trauma or mental issues 5 - isn't really, but wants to be because they get more jobs in hollywood (just kidding) (now before jumping all over me, I can come up with a similar list for straight people and the partnering situations they find themselves in - the key point is people are individuals and everyone has their own background. What irks me is the rote identification - one side just says "Shut up, 100% are #1", the other side says "Shut up, 100% are #4". The oversimplification irks me, as these are people.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #28 January 13, 2014 champu***Folks are free to pursue whatever sexual outlet they want. That is as long as it is not with me, my family or my church community. Does using the term "marriage" to describe a union automatically include people in your church community and give you jurisdiction to intervene? the idea that a group has a moral imperative to intervene in the personal lives of individuals is a bit socialistic and overbearing IMO. It's my main issue with the left, and the far right. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #29 January 13, 2014 rehmwa******Folks are free to pursue whatever sexual outlet they want. That is as long as it is not with me, my family or my church community. Does using the term "marriage" to describe a union automatically include people in your church community and give you jurisdiction to intervene? the idea that a group has a moral imperative to intervene in the personal lives of individuals is a bit socialistic and overbearing IMO. It's my main issue with the left, and the far right. Stop skipping ahead dammit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #30 January 13, 2014 9 out of 10 of you in here are confusing "being gay" with "choosing to have gay sex, for whatever reason." Reconcile that first, or the rest of the discussion is worth doodly-squat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #31 January 13, 2014 Yes. Ron does not address whether or not orientation is God-given. I suspect he doesn't want to think about that. He says that action on one's desires in entirely in one's control. Since his people believe gay sex is an abomination, those that have the desire for gay sex must chose to abstain. Appartently he doesn't fel the same way about other choices which are an abomination to God, such as divorce and remarriage. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #32 January 13, 2014 champu***Folks are free to pursue whatever sexual outlet they want. That is as long as it is not with me, my family or my church community. Does using the term "marriage" to describe a union automatically include people in your church community and give you jurisdiction to intervene? Interesting question. I have no jurisdiction to intervene but my pastor has indicated he will take action. I do not know what he has decided he will do. He has stated that the world church government of our denomination will revoke the license of any minister who performs a homosexual marriage. It really is not a big concern in my community. We are more focused on the day to day survival necessities, leading people to Jesus Christ and planning our new church development. We have the property, twenty acres, and need to build the structure.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #33 January 13, 2014 Andy9o89 out of 10 of you in here are confusing "being gay" with "choosing to have gay sex, for whatever reason." Reconcile that first, or the rest of the discussion is worth doodly-squat. Reading the title of the thread makes one think the premise of this thread was about whether or not gay people should be traveling to Sochi Russia or Yemen. Silly me for thinking the title of the thread had anything to do with what was actually being discussed. But if one was to attempt to get the thread back on topic, I wonder who does the Gay Lobby think is their bigger threat during the Winter Games? The Russian Government or the Chechens? I know what my answer would be. But I don't speak for the Gay Lobby. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #34 January 13, 2014 normissYet you (supposedly) chose females. You claim that to be natural. Same for the other team. I absolutely agree. The spiritual struggle centers on sin which separates the sinner from God. The spirit desires union with God while the body seeks personal satisfaction. What is a stake is the eternal soul. We must crucify the flesh to grow spiritually. The path of course is through Jesus Christ. "No man cometh unto the Father except by Me." When we accept Him we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide us on our path.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #35 January 13, 2014 6 - never had any luck with ladies, switched teams in order to get laid I guy I worked with a number of years ago switched teams for this reason. In the 20 plus years I've known him, I've never seen him with a woman. He said he just never could get anywhere with women. Not my take on his situation either, he told me as much. I expect, as you say, like everything else in this world, hundreds of possibilities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #36 January 13, 2014 RonD1120*** QuoteSexual behavior in human beings is a choice. Perhaps you can tell how old you were when you made your choice? Perhaps tour decision process is an ongoing affair, I'm willing to bet, if your honest with yourself, it never was really much of a choice at all. I love this type of thinking. It is so clever. I can tell you with all honesty, I never got laid accidently. I always chose to participate. I have no doubt that you never had straight sex on accident, so I'm assuming you not having gay sex was no accident either, so what made you not have gay sex? I know you have previously discussed your alcohol and drug use when you were younger, even if you were heavily under the influence, you still did not choose men, why? You know you never had to make choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #37 January 13, 2014 jclalor****** QuoteSexual behavior in human beings is a choice. Perhaps you can tell how old you were when you made your choice? Perhaps tour decision process is an ongoing affair, I'm willing to bet, if your honest with yourself, it never was really much of a choice at all. I love this type of thinking. It is so clever. I can tell you with all honesty, I never got laid accidently. I always chose to participate. I have no doubt that you never had straight sex on accident, so I'm assuming you not having gay sex was no accident either, so what made you not have gay sex? I know you have previously discussed your alcohol and drug use when you were younger, even if you were heavily under the influence, you still did not choose men, why? You know you never had to make choice. The principle from a Christian perspective, at least mine, is sexual sin or sex apart from marriage. God provided a path through His son Jesus Christ to be forgiven of sin. Do you want forgiveness or to wallow in sin? See, it is a choice. It seems to me that you and others are trying to get me to choose the better sin. I cannot do that. Sin is sin, it separates you from God and it risks your eternal salvation.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #38 January 13, 2014 normiss 6 - never had any luck with ladies, switched teams in order to get laid I guy I worked with a number of years ago switched teams for this reason. In the 20 plus years I've known him, I've never seen him with a woman. He said he just never could get anywhere with women. Not my take on his situation either, he told me as much. I expect, as you say, like everything else in this world, hundreds of possibilities. actually, Andy made a key point "being" which is a bit circular in how he would categorize it, doesn't equal the full population of "living the lifestyle" or just claiming to be it's a fair distinction to keep in mind what assumptions people are bringing into the discussion and how that will derail when people talk from different starting points. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #39 January 13, 2014 I fully understand your perspective Ron. I do respect your commitment to your beliefs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #40 January 13, 2014 Quote "No man cometh unto the Father except by Me." See, now there's an excellent straight line. No pun intended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #41 January 13, 2014 Andy9o8 Quote "No man cometh unto the Father except by Me." See, now there's an excellent straight line. No pun intended. What a mind! Only you would have grabbed that.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #42 January 13, 2014 RonD1120******Folks are free to pursue whatever sexual outlet they want. That is as long as it is not with me, my family or my church community. Does using the term "marriage" to describe a union automatically include people in your church community and give you jurisdiction to intervene? Interesting question. I have no jurisdiction to intervene but my pastor has indicated he will take action. I do not know what he has decided he will do. He has stated that the world church government of our denomination will revoke the license of any minister who performs a homosexual marriage. It really is not a big concern in my community. We are more focused on the day to day survival necessities, leading people to Jesus Christ and planning our new church development. We have the property, twenty acres, and need to build the structure. If your pastor acts on behalf of the church community then he acts on behalf of its members. It pays to pay attention to those who do things claiming they have your support. If, in fact, they don't... say something. (that's a general comment.) The motive behind me asking the question was the idea you bring up of one's church community, and it being the last boundary in your list beyond which you observe "folks are free." I think a healthy understanding of what constitutes one's church community, if theyone chooses to have one, and what does not is very important. That is, more important than people being free to pursue sexual outlets if they are outside your church community, theypeople are free to declare themselves completely and entirely outside of your church community and any opinions, standards, regulations, or restrictions thereof. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #43 January 13, 2014 RonD1120 *** Quote "No man cometh unto the Father except by Me." See, now there's an excellent straight line. No pun intended. What a mind! Only you would have grabbed that.Grabbed what?? Stop it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #44 January 13, 2014 What the hell is "gay travel"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #45 January 13, 2014 I would expect a lot "helping your buddy out". You know, lending a hand as they say.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #46 January 13, 2014 champu*********Folks are free to pursue whatever sexual outlet they want. That is as long as it is not with me, my family or my church community. Does using the term "marriage" to describe a union automatically include people in your church community and give you jurisdiction to intervene? Interesting question. I have no jurisdiction to intervene but my pastor has indicated he will take action. I do not know what he has decided he will do. He has stated that the world church government of our denomination will revoke the license of any minister who performs a homosexual marriage. It really is not a big concern in my community. We are more focused on the day to day survival necessities, leading people to Jesus Christ and planning our new church development. We have the property, twenty acres, and need to build the structure. If your pastor acts on behalf of the church community then he acts on behalf of its members. It pays to pay attention to those who do things claiming they have your support. If, in fact, they don't... say something. (that's a general comment.) The motive behind me asking the question was the idea you bring up of one's church community, and it being the last boundary in your list beyond which you observe "folks are free." I think a healthy understanding of what constitutes one's church community, if theyone chooses to have one, and what does not is very important. That is, more important than people being free to pursue sexual outlets if they are outside your church community, theypeople are free to declare themselves completely and entirely outside of your church community and any opinions, standards, regulations, or restrictions thereof. Everyone has free will. Within my church community some choices may come under extreme scrutiny and criticism. Sexual sin, substance use, homicide, robbery are some examples of bad choices.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #47 January 13, 2014 Andy9o8 ****** Quote "No man cometh unto the Father except by Me." See, now there's an excellent straight line. No pun intended. What a mind! Only you would have grabbed that.Grabbed what?? Stop it! The turgid double entendre. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #48 January 13, 2014 SkyDekkerWhat the hell is "gay travel"? You know, there's no such thing as "gay travel". Maybe it should have been a warning to gay travelers? Alternate life style travelers? "Gay travel" is something I'm not familiar with. Sorry.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #49 January 13, 2014 It's actually quite a niche market and a good sized industry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #50 January 13, 2014 billvon>I agree, and why would women want to skydive in Dubai, UAE? Big tunnel, nice planes, high pay for female coaches, "exceptions" for them. All that glitter and money plus "exceptions" mean nothing according to Sharia Law. I hope they are careful.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
