Why I hate 'Liberal' and 'Conservative'.

[ibx 2]

Quote

Not so, I accepted personal responsibility then sought help. I stopped blaming my parents, my wife, my boss and the asshole Vietnam War protesters. I learned how to live life on life's terms.

Isn't one part of the whole process accepting that you have no power over your own addiction? Don't get me wrong I'm trying to understand the rational.

[Gravitymaster 0]

ibx

Quote

Not so, I accepted personal responsibility then sought help. I stopped blaming my parents, my wife, my boss and the asshole Vietnam War protesters. I learned how to live life on life's terms.

Isn't one part of the whole process accepting that you have no power over your own addiction? Don't get me wrong I'm trying to understand the rational.

No you aren't. You are trying to find something to attack him about and call him a hypocrite in regards to an inconsistency in his belief. I really don't understand why people can't just accept others for they way they are, including respect for whatever beliefs work for them.

[ibx 2]

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No you aren't. You are trying to find something to attack him about and call him a hypocrite in regards to an inconsistency in his belief. I really don't understand why people can't just accept others for they way they are, including respect for whatever beliefs work for them.

Somebody just diagnosed half the nation with a psychological issue and I'm trying to find the fault in his thinking... God forbid...

And no I accept a persons beliefs but I can not be forced to respect them.
People are free to believe whatever they want, just as I am free to believe that they are deluded...

[Gravitymaster 0]

ibx

Quote

No you aren't. You are trying to find something to attack him about and call him a hypocrite in regards to an inconsistency in his belief. I really don't understand why people can't just accept others for they way they are, including respect for whatever beliefs work for them.

Somebody just diagnosed half the nation with a psychological issue and I'm trying the fault in his thinking... God forbid...

And no I accept a persons beliefs but I can not be forced to respect them.
People are free to believe whatever they want, just as I am free to believe that they are deluded...

Well, at least your thinking is on topic for this thread.

[RonD1120 58]

ibx

Quote

Not so, I accepted personal responsibility then sought help. I stopped blaming my parents, my wife, my boss and the asshole Vietnam War protesters. I learned how to live life on life's terms.

Isn't one part of the whole process accepting that you have no power over your own addiction? Don't get me wrong I'm trying to understand the rational.

I admitted I was powerless over alcohol. That is a different concept from blaming outside factors for the "cause" of my drinking. In truth, I drank because I wanted to get high. Later I became addicted to alcohol.

The thinking of half of this country is along the lines that it is the government's responsibility to take care of us because problems are some other person's fault, liberal. I do not, conservative.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

RonD1120

***

Quote

Not so, I accepted personal responsibility then sought help. I stopped blaming my parents, my wife, my boss and the asshole Vietnam War protesters. I learned how to live life on life's terms.

Isn't one part of the whole process accepting that you have no power over your own addiction? Don't get me wrong I'm trying to understand the rational.

I admitted I was powerless over alcohol. That is a different concept from blaming outside factors for the "cause" of my drinking. In truth, I drank because I wanted to get high. Later I became addicted to alcohol.

The thinking of half of this country is along the lines that it is the government's responsibility to take care of us because problems are some other person's fault, liberal. I do not, conservative.

I for one, congratulate you for turning your life around and becoming a productive human being willing to help others change their life. Whatever path you needed to take to get there worked for you. That's all that's important. Only the very small minded could not see your change as positive.

[ibx 2]

Quote

I admitted I was powerless over alcohol. That is a different concept from blaming outside factors for the "cause" of my drinking. In truth, I drank because I wanted to get high. Later I became addicted to alcohol.

I think that is a very honest description. I'm also glad you turned your life around by whatever means... Chances are we wouldn't have this discussion if it was otherwise.

Quote

The thinking of half of this country is along the lines that it is the government's responsibility to take care of us because problems are some other person's fault, liberal. I do not, conservative.

I think thats oversimplifying the issue...

[DanG 1]

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I really don't understand why people can't just accept others for they way they are, including respect for whatever beliefs work for them.

You owe me a new irony meter.

- Dan G

[shropshire 0]

DanG

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I really don't understand why people can't just accept others for they way they are, including respect for whatever beliefs work for them.

You owe me a new irony meter.

My screen will wipe dry but you owe me a new keyboard

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[chemist 0]

DanG

Quote

I really don't understand why people can't just accept others for they way they are, including respect for whatever beliefs work for them.

You owe me a new irony meter.

You could say the same thing about 12 steppers!!

AA won't even respect alternative programs of total abstinence leave alone alternative programs of moderation.

[Gravitymaster 0]

DanG

Quote

I really don't understand why people can't just accept others for they way they are, including respect for whatever beliefs work for them.

You owe me a new irony meter.

That's because you don't get it.

[RonD1120 58]

Gravitymaster

******

Quote

Not so, I accepted personal responsibility then sought help. I stopped blaming my parents, my wife, my boss and the asshole Vietnam War protesters. I learned how to live life on life's terms.

Isn't one part of the whole process accepting that you have no power over your own addiction? Don't get me wrong I'm trying to understand the rational.

I admitted I was powerless over alcohol. That is a different concept from blaming outside factors for the "cause" of my drinking. In truth, I drank because I wanted to get high. Later I became addicted to alcohol.

The thinking of half of this country is along the lines that it is the government's responsibility to take care of us because problems are some other person's fault, liberal. I do not, conservative.

I for one, congratulate you for turning your life around and becoming a productive human being willing to help others change their life. Whatever path you needed to take to get there worked for you. That's all that's important. Only the very small minded could not see your change as positive.

Thank you, sir.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

ibx

Quote

I admitted I was powerless over alcohol. That is a different concept from blaming outside factors for the "cause" of my drinking. In truth, I drank because I wanted to get high. Later I became addicted to alcohol.

I think that is a very honest description. I'm also glad you turned your life around by whatever means... Chances are we wouldn't have this discussion if it was otherwise.

Quote

The thinking of half of this country is along the lines that it is the government's responsibility to take care of us because problems are some other person's fault, liberal. I do not, conservative.

I think thats oversimplifying the issue...

Thank you for the compliment as well. Simplification is a basic principle in the recovery process. It's called the KISS principle.

Keep It Simple Stupid

In general I deal with concepts not details. In other words, I see forests and I'm not too concerned with the trees. The exception is when I am in a 1:1 counseling session.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

chemist

AA won't even respect alternative programs of total abstinence leave alone alternative programs of moderation.

AA/NA are self-contained programs of recovery. If you want to use them then do so. If not, no problem, it is the choice of the individual. If your other path does not work for you then come back or try AA/NA. All that is required is a desire to remain sober through abstinence. There is no prejudice.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[livendive 8]

I tend to vote on candidates, not the letters next to their names, and I don't think the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are used in the same way. The term "liberal" has for the most part been redefined into a de facto insult, and you can almost hear the venom surrounding it whenever it's used as a stereotype. "Conservative", by contrast, still mostly retains its original traditional meaning. Those on the left who are trying to mirror the "liberal" insults instead use "rethuglicans" or "repubicans" or some other nonsense. Both sides do the same thing, but one bastardized a meaning to accomplish this while the other just makes up quasi-words to the same end.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[wmw999 2,149]

Well, don't forget "libtards," "demokkkrats" and other stuff. Vinny (who I met IRL and liked quite a lot) was the master of liberal name-calling.

So eventually maybe "conservative" will become the same kind of pejorative that "liberal" is in other circles.

All of them are just ways to classify people, and shove stuff that doesn't fit into one little box so that you can deal with them according to how you see the box, rather than how you see the actual person.

Jerry's point about actually listening to the argument and formulating a response is key. And if you listen to the argument, and only then formulate the response (rather than spending the whole time that the other person is talking, thinking about your response rather than what they're saying), it's even more powerful.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[chemist 0]

RonD1120

***

AA won't even respect alternative programs of total abstinence leave alone alternative programs of moderation.

AA/NA are self-contained programs of recovery. If you want to use them then do so. If not, no problem, it is the choice of the individual. If your other path does not work for you then come back or try AA/NA. All that is required is a desire to remain sober through abstinence. There is no prejudice.

Not true, the force is rampant and covert, i.e. you don't 'have' to do AA but if not we'll take your kids, put you in jail or take your livelihood etc... So ya they don't HAVE to do it but it's still force, even a fool could understand that.

[wmw999 2,149]

Establish a moderation program that helps people, then do it long enough for it to have a track record. AA's is by no means a perfect track record, but it's what's currently out there.

Invent the change you want.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

chemist

******

AA won't even respect alternative programs of total abstinence leave alone alternative programs of moderation.

AA/NA are self-contained programs of recovery. If you want to use them then do so. If not, no problem, it is the choice of the individual. If your other path does not work for you then come back or try AA/NA. All that is required is a desire to remain sober through abstinence. There is no prejudice.

Not true, the force is rampant and covert, i.e. you don't 'have' to do AA but if not we'll take your kids, put you in jail or take your livelihood etc... So ya they don't HAVE to do it but it's still force, even a fool could understand that.

I am not sure what you are referring to specifically. However, it is the law that imposes sanctions not AA/NA.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

wmw999

Establish a moderation program that helps people, then do it long enough for it to have a track record. AA's is by no means a perfect track record, but it's what's currently out there.

Invent the change you want.

Wendy P.

Some years back a lady from the Seattle area, who was an alcoholic, developed a moderation recovery program. Unfortunately, the program lost support when she relapsed and committed DUI homicide.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[chemist 0]

wmw999

Establish a moderation program that helps people, then do it long enough for it to have a track record. AA's is by no means a perfect track record, but it's what's currently out there.

Invent the change you want.

Wendy P.

There is no track record because AA does not record outcomes, they are not a professional organization, they don't change their their treatment methods in accordance with results since they don't record data nor do they subject their steps to criticism or peer scientific review.

I don't need to invent anything new because their is already a plethora of alternative options for addiction treatment. SMART recovery is one example of a very well regarded and respected source of help for those struggling with addiction.

[chemist 0]

RonD1120

***Establish a moderation program that helps people, then do it long enough for it to have a track record. AA's is by no means a perfect track record, but it's what's currently out there.

Invent the change you want.

Wendy P.

Some years back a lady from the Seattle area, who was an alcoholic, developed a moderation recovery program. Unfortunately, the program lost support when she relapsed and committed DUI homicide.

You left out a pretty important piece of information. She quit moderation management for AA, and after 2 months of AA she committed the DUI homicide. Pesky facts.

[RonD1120 58]

livendive

I tend to vote on candidates, not the letters next to their names, and I don't think the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are used in the same way. The term "liberal" has for the most part been redefined into a de facto insult, and you can almost hear the venom surrounding it whenever it's used as a stereotype. "Conservative", by contrast, still mostly retains its original traditional meaning. Those on the left who are trying to mirror the "liberal" insults instead use "rethuglicans" or "repubicans" or some other nonsense. Both sides do the same thing, but one bastardized a meaning to accomplish this while the other just makes up quasi-words to the same end.

Blues,
Dave

I agree and I am guilty. I tend to retaliate in kind.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

chemist

******Establish a moderation program that helps people, then do it long enough for it to have a track record. AA's is by no means a perfect track record, but it's what's currently out there.

Invent the change you want.

Wendy P.

Some years back a lady from the Seattle area, who was an alcoholic, developed a moderation recovery program. Unfortunately, the program lost support when she relapsed and committed DUI homicide.

You left out a pretty important piece of information. She quit moderation management for AA, and after 2 months of AA she committed the DUI homicide. Pesky facts.[/quote

Not pesky at all. Your statement changes nothing of what I said.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[chemist 0]

It doesn't change what you said. It just shows you are being untruthful.