rushmc 18 #201 June 11, 2013 ianmdrennanQuoteYou own this, plain and simple. No. WE own this. Regardless of party lines, BOTH parties have a hand in this act. It never, ever should have happened in the first place. Now we're all reaping what we sow. Actually we are getting more than we sowed But I still contend that would have happened under the next president (post bush) regardless of party These government elite fuck nuts cant help themselves"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #202 June 11, 2013 jcd11235 Since the NDI and representatives of the companies that supposedly provided direct access to servers all unequivocally denied such unilateral access, no actual evidence has been presented, and the leaker is hiding out in China (because they're such champions of free speech and transparency in government, no doubt), yes, I'm inclined to call bullshit on the leaker. Sure, it could be everybody else who is lying, but the probability is pretty damn low. You seem to have skipped over the part where companies that receive FISA orders are explicitly forbidden from even speaking about having received the order, never mind any information about it. And since this sort of action violates both their privacy agreement and their public pledge to provide such information only under court subpoena, their silence is hardly a confirmation of The Man's statement. To reiterate, the burden of truth lies with the rat bastard who gets caught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #203 June 11, 2013 kelpdiver*** Since the NDI and representatives of the companies that supposedly provided direct access to servers all unequivocally denied such unilateral access, no actual evidence has been presented, and the leaker is hiding out in China (because they're such champions of free speech and transparency in government, no doubt), yes, I'm inclined to call bullshit on the leaker. Sure, it could be everybody else who is lying, but the probability is pretty damn low. You seem to have skipped over the part where companies that receive FISA orders are explicitly forbidden from even speaking about having received the order, never mind any information about it. And since this sort of action violates both their privacy agreement and their public pledge to provide such information only under court subpoena, their silence is hardly a confirmation of The Man's statement. To reiterate, the burden of truth lies with the rat bastard who gets caught. Uh, no. I find it hard to believe that a someone with as much access as Snowden claims to have had would lack the access to documents verifying the most important claims he made. What documents has he provided that provide evidence that something actually illegal was going on? He made some baseless claims, and provided only evidence of legal surveillance. You're an intelligent guy. If you were going to risk your life and career blowing the whistle, don't you think you would gather some evidence before going public with your claims?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #204 June 11, 2013 Gravitymaster******Translation: You voted for him and thus for his policies. Incorrect. I am an anti-Republican, not a Democrat. You, however, ARE on record as supporting the Patriot Act. Until now, of course. I am on record as consistently against it. What I supported is not what being done now. You and your ilk put Obama in office. Deal with it and stop trying to blame others. You own this, plain and simple. Lame excuse. YOU supported the Patriot Act from the get-go. Man up and admit it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #205 June 11, 2013 rushmc***QuoteYou own this, plain and simple. No. WE own this. Regardless of party lines, BOTH parties have a hand in this act. It never, ever should have happened in the first place. Now we're all reaping what we sow. Actually we are getting more than we sowed And you expected anything different? YOU supported the Patriot Act. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind" Hosea 8:7 Learn the lessons of history, Marc.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #206 June 11, 2013 kallend*********Translation: You voted for him and thus for his policies. Incorrect. I am an anti-Republican, not a Democrat. You, however, ARE on record as supporting the Patriot Act. Until now, of course. I am on record as consistently against it. What I supported is not what being done now. You and your ilk put Obama in office. Deal with it and stop trying to blame others. You own this, plain and simple. Lame excuse. YOU supported the Patriot Act from the get-go. Man up and admit it. Not the Patriot Act. It's your Hope and Change on steroids. Man up and admit you voted for this by proxy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #207 June 11, 2013 Again, it's not. Congress rushed changes through (one example here). BOTH parties allowed this to happen.Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #208 June 11, 2013 This thread officially sucks.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #209 June 11, 2013 KennedyThis thread officially sucks. +1 It amazes me how often the participants on this forum digress to "Did not!" "Did to!" Double-dog dares, and other school yard behavior. So many on this forum seem to think their party is wonderful. I have to wonder if we are talking about the same parties. I always find myself holding my nose as I vote for the (barely) least repugnant candidate. By the way..."left wing" and "right wing" are used so frequently around here that I am fairly sure the meaning of these terms was long since lost.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #210 June 11, 2013 davjohns***This thread officially sucks. +1 It amazes me how often the participants on this forum digress to "Did not!" "Did to!" Double-dog dares, and other school yard behavior. So many on this forum seem to think their party is wonderful. I have to wonder if we are talking about the same parties. I always find myself holding my nose as I vote for the (barely) least repugnant candidate. By the way..."left wing" and "right wing" are used so frequently around here that I am fairly sure the meaning of these terms was long since lost. Buzz off...You have the right to read or not read any thread you want. Don't come on here and tell everyone they must conform to your ideal of this forums use. Don't like certain posters? Then don't read them. I rarely read anything you or many others write. So there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #211 June 11, 2013 and that goes for you too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #212 June 11, 2013 Gravitymaster******This thread officially sucks. +1 It amazes me how often the participants on this forum digress to "Did not!" "Did to!" Double-dog dares, and other school yard behavior. So many on this forum seem to think their party is wonderful. I have to wonder if we are talking about the same parties. I always find myself holding my nose as I vote for the (barely) least repugnant candidate. By the way..."left wing" and "right wing" are used so frequently around here that I am fairly sure the meaning of these terms was long since lost. Buzz off...You have the right to read or not read any thread you want. Don't come on here and tell everyone they must conform to your ideal of this forums use. Don't like certain posters? Then don't read them. I rarely read anything you or many others write. So there. LOL Thanks! I needed that. I had ignored this forum for a couple of months. I'll drop back sometime and see if anything has changed. DavidI know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #213 June 11, 2013 kallend******QuoteYou own this, plain and simple. No. WE own this. Regardless of party lines, BOTH parties have a hand in this act. It never, ever should have happened in the first place. Now we're all reaping what we sow. Actually we are getting more than we sowed And you expected anything different? YOU supported the Patriot Act. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind" Hosea 8:7 Learn the lessons of history, Marc. How long you gonna beat that dead horse you support obama on this or what?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #214 June 11, 2013 Andy9o8The last time "something was done about it" was the spate of legislation that immediately followed the Watergate-era revelations of Nixon Admin abuses. And that was only possible because both houses of congress were overwhelmingly controlled by the one party. That political landscape doesn't exist now; and frankly, politicians of any stripe are only very very rarely inclined to place limits on govt power, since govt power is what they're all about. So,what will actually be done is probably.... nothing. And so it seems were being pushed toward libertarian type canidates then So be it"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #215 June 11, 2013 quadeWhat did you think the NSA was going to do after "The Patriot Act" was signed into place? "The Patriot Act" Newspeak at its finest. Hey According to Obama FISA judges gave him the ok So for him and you I guess it all now is Constitutional"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #216 June 11, 2013 davjohns*********This thread officially sucks. +1 It amazes me how often the participants on this forum digress to "Did not!" "Did to!" Double-dog dares, and other school yard behavior. So many on this forum seem to think their party is wonderful. I have to wonder if we are talking about the same parties. I always find myself holding my nose as I vote for the (barely) least repugnant candidate. By the way..."left wing" and "right wing" are used so frequently around here that I am fairly sure the meaning of these terms was long since lost. Buzz off...You have the right to read or not read any thread you want. Don't come on here and tell everyone they must conform to your ideal of this forums use. Don't like certain posters? Then don't read them. I rarely read anything you or many others write. So there. LOL Thanks! I needed that. I had ignored this forum for a couple of months. I'll drop back sometime and see if anything has changed. David Don't hold your breath. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #217 June 11, 2013 ianmdrennanAgain, it's not. Congress rushed changes through (one example here). BOTH parties allowed this to happen. Who signed the extension? Where does the Buck Stop? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #218 June 11, 2013 Can you guess who the author of this is? QuoteWhat part of "The Buck Stops Here" don't you understand? The buck doesn't stop at Hillary's desk or Albright's desk or Ted Kennedy's desk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #219 June 11, 2013 rushmc you support obama on this or what? NO, I do not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #220 June 11, 2013 ianmdrennanQuoteYou own this, plain and simple. No. WE own this. Regardless of party lines, BOTH parties have a hand in this act. It never, ever should have happened in the first place. Now we're all reaping what we sow. So, you owned the decisions that Bush made, or did you disassociate yourself from them?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #221 June 11, 2013 QuoteSo, you owned the decisions that Bush made, or did you disassociate yourself from them? Did you? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #222 June 11, 2013 Yes. Since I believe in Democracy I have to own them, even if I don't agree with them. We, as a Nation, allowed something stupid to happen because of fear - even when some were saying it was a bad idea (remember, they were labelled Unpatriotic). Remember the cry - "If you have nothing to hide, then why do you care?"...... We, as a Nation, are responsible for what we've allowed. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #223 June 11, 2013 ianmdrennanYes. Since I believe in Democracy I have to own them, even if I don't agree with them. We, as a Nation, allowed something stupid to happen because of fear - even when some were saying it was a bad idea (remember, they were labelled Unpatriotic). Remember the cry - "If you have nothing to hide, then why do you care?"...... We, as a Nation, are responsible for what we've allowed. Ian As a nation, we have no choice, as an individual, you have little choice.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #224 June 11, 2013 turtlespeedAs a nation, we have no choice, as an individual, you have little choice. IMHO, if that remains a prevailing attitude within your citizenry then indeed nothing will ever change or be rectified. Rather than just lower their heads in resigned despair or place blame amongst each other, some in your countries not-so-distant past, at significant risk to themselves, have been willing to collectively stand against various injustices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #225 June 11, 2013 aphid***As a nation, we have no choice, as an individual, you have little choice. IMHO, if that remains a prevailing attitude within your citizenry then indeed nothing will ever change or be rectified. Rather than just lower their heads in resigned despair or place blame amongst each other, some in your countries not-so-distant past, at significant risk to themselves, have been willing to collectively stand against various injustices. True, individuals too.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites