The "Afordable" Health Care Act??

[wmw999 2,157]

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The system was sustainable until massive changes were put in. Think of medical care in the 1970s and 1980s. Look at it now. What changed to make it unsustainable? When did it become unsustainable? And what caused the lack of sustainability?

Three primary things, in my view (not in order of importance):
- EMTALA, making care of the indigent more mandatory than it used to be
- Increased sophisticated and expensive options for medical care, particularly end-stage and common-disease care
- Increased publicity about all of those options, via both advertising and the internet.

If you combine those with a deteriorating diet and entertainment choices requiring less and less exercise, it's easy to see how health care is getting bigger and bigger.

EMTALA is a piece of it, but the others are as well.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[CygnusX-1 42]

What about the aging public? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you and lawrocket are older now than you were in the 70's and 80's. And maybe, just maybe you use health care now more than you did then. I can tell you I've used it more now than I did in the 80s.

Now if we could just kill off all the old people. Then our problems would be solved. Ahh the blissful society in Logan's Run.

[wmw999 2,157]

I don't, but I'm probably in the minority among my age group
That said, yes, there are a ton more old people, and they're expensive, too. Of course, so are premature and used-to-die babies, as well -- the ones needing months of NICU care.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[lawrocket 3]

I think you've hit the nail on the head in your list.

Now, let's see what the ACA fixes in that list.

Oh, yes. None of it. It simply provides a mechanism for funding health care. That is, rather than giving fewer dollars for health care, it actually gives more dollars for health care. And requires coverage for those chronic diseases rather than providing an incentive to either not get them or to cure them (lowering health care costs would be best achieved by banning tobacco, alcohol, HFCS and fast food).

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 1,654]

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What about the aging public? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you and lawrocket are older now than you were in the 70's and 80's. And maybe, just maybe you use health care now more than you did then. I can tell you I've used it more now than I did in the 80s.

Now if we could just kill off all the old people. Then our problems would be solved. Ahh the blissful society in Logan's Run.

'70s and '80s?
I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NWFlyer 2]

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(lowering health care costs would be best achieved by banning tobacco, alcohol, HFCS and fast food).

Or we could just ban the subsidies that make those items (as well as soy-, wheat- and sugar-based processed foods, feedlot meat, industrial oils, etc.) ubiquitous and "cheap."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 2,446]

> It’s like being married for 10 years and deciding to have sex with
>other people to see whether it makes the marriage better.

Good example. If one person says "I hate you and I want a divorce unless something changes" then "don't change anything" is the worst possible answer. Seeing other people might not be the best solution but it is preferable to doing nothing.

>It may for you, but what about the other person who should be
>considered?

They may want to see other people too.

[lawrocket 3]

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(lowering health care costs would be best achieved by banning tobacco, alcohol, HFCS and fast food).

Or we could just ban the subsidies that make those items (as well as soy-, wheat- and sugar-based processed foods, feedlot meat, industrial oils, etc.) ubiquitous and "cheap."

Yes. I've argued this in the past. Perhaps if people started paying what the stuff actually costs then the use would go down.

Government policy is to make it easier for people to make themselves sick. Then subsidize the sick.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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If one person says "I hate you and I want a divorce unless something changes" then "don't change anything" is the worst possible answer.

Not necessarily. Indeed, to tell a spouse "I hate you and I want a divorce unless something changes" is actually pretty brutal, isn't it? Perhaps the change should be in the threatening spouse.

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They may want to see other people too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,446]

>Indeed, to tell a spouse "I hate you and I want a divorce unless
>something changes" is actually pretty brutal, isn't it? Perhaps the change
>should be in the threatening spouse.

Yes. You need a change. And in a case like that, even a less than ideal change is better than none.

[lawrocket 3]

It assumes the marriage is worth keeping. Much like the present health care system.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,446]

>It assumes the marriage is worth keeping.

Right. The analogy would be that healthcare is worth keeping. If someone is uninterested in healthcare (or preserving the marriage) then most of the discussion becomes invalid.

[kallend 1,654]

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(lowering health care costs would be best achieved by banning tobacco, alcohol, HFCS and fast food).

Or we could just ban the subsidies that make those items (as well as soy-, wheat- and sugar-based processed foods, feedlot meat, industrial oils, etc.) ubiquitous and "cheap."

Yes. I've argued this in the past. Perhaps if people started paying what the stuff actually costs then the use would go down.

.

ALL associated costs, of course.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mistercwood 287]

Socialised health care is awesome. Just saying.

*flees*

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[airdvr 200]

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Socialised health care is awesome. Just saying.

*flees*

This is the line for bread comrade. The line for healthcare is over there.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[mistercwood 287]

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Socialised health care is awesome. Just saying.

*flees*

This is the line for bread comrade. The line for healthcare is over there.

Seriously, though, I can't imagine not having it. I don't get sick. As in, I've seen a doctor 3 times in the last decade, and 2 of those were emergency situations - one mugging and just recently a shoulder dislocation. In those situations, I was well looked after. The first incident I had an ambulance ride, overnight stay in emergency, MRI in the morning and a tetanus shot (bastard doctors couldn't help adding to my pain... ). The dislocation so far - in terms of care - has involved initial xrays, sedation to relocate it, referral to Othapaedics(sp?) at my home hospital, xrays there, physio consult, physio session twice a week for about 5-6 weeks, exercise class twice a week for the last 3 weeks and I've got another consult next week as well.

I haven't had to pay a cent.

Yes, I pay 1.5% of my taxable income as a Medicare levy. There are exemptions for low income earners, and there are reductions and offsets for higher income earners who have their own private insurance. However what I've paid in the last decade in that nasty horrible little tax, from what I've seen would often equate to what many Americans spend in a single year on health insurance.

I know which system I prefer.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Socialised health care is awesome. Just saying.

*flees*

This is the line for bread comrade. The line for healthcare is over there.

Socialized health care while unemployed may not be ideal, but it's a damn sight better than no health insurance at all while unemployed.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Socialized health care while unemployed may not be ideal, but it's a damn sight better than no health insurance at all while unemployed.

[skypuppy 1]

I don't think I ever met anyone before who admitted -we know this isn't going to work but we're going to do it anyways because we don't like what we're doing now.

I would have thought most people would have wanted to get a system in place that worked - considering all the energy it takes to make a change in the first place.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

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Socialised health care is awesome. Just saying.

*flees*

not that good here in canada. not if you need it now.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

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Socialised health care is awesome. Just saying.

*flees*

This is the line for bread comrade. The line for healthcare is over there.

Seriously, though, I can't imagine not having it. I don't get sick. As in, I've seen a doctor 3 times in the last decade, and 2 of those were emergency situations - one mugging and just recently a shoulder dislocation. In those situations, I was well looked after. The first incident I had an ambulance ride, overnight stay in emergency, MRI in the morning and a tetanus shot (bastard doctors couldn't help adding to my pain... ). The dislocation so far - in terms of care - has involved initial xrays, sedation to relocate it, referral to Othapaedics(sp?) at my home hospital, xrays there, physio consult, physio session twice a week for about 5-6 weeks, exercise class twice a week for the last 3 weeks and I've got another consult next week as well.

I haven't had to pay a cent.

Yes, I pay 1.5% of my taxable income as a Medicare levy. There are exemptions for low income earners, and there are reductions and offsets for higher income earners who have their own private insurance. However what I've paid in the last decade in that nasty horrible little tax, from what I've seen would often equate to what many Americans spend in a single year on health insurance.

I know which system I prefer.

interesting. here in canada we also have socialized medicine, I guess.

However ambulance rides aren't covered. you can't get an mri unless its life or death. I know I didn't actually get sedated when they put my shoulder back in place. And physiotherapy and exercise class isn't covered either. Neither are drugs or dental.

I must live in the wrong socialist country.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[mistercwood 287]

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interesting. here in canada we also have socialized medicine, I guess.

However ambulance rides aren't covered. you can't get an mri unless its life or death. I know I didn't actually get sedated when they put my shoulder back in place. And physiotherapy and exercise class isn't covered either. Neither are drugs or dental.

I must live in the wrong socialist country.

Ambulance rides these days are no longer covered. At the time I had my ride, there was a state based scheme where there was a small levy added to your power bill (miniscule, like maybe $5/quarter, if that?) which allowed for everyone in the state to be covered automatically. Stopped people who might've been broke but really needed medical attention right NOW from trying to take a cab to the hospital rather than cop a bill for a grand or so. Flipside I got from talking to a customer who was a paramedic was there were those in society who abused it, and unfortunately once they've shown up they now have duty of care and can't just tell the idiot not to waste their time.

Shame it's gone, aside from my own rides I've called a few for other people and it was nice to not have to hesitate or second guess.

There's a chance I'll be having another MRI for the shoulder, they don't do one normally unless something looks off on the xray or if it's a repeat injury, but with my current range of movement my physio's concerned there may actually be some damage to the cartilage. As far as I know there'll be no charge.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[mistercwood 287]

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Socialised health care is awesome. Just saying.

*flees*

And if we had only 23 million people it could be awesome here, too.

We don't have 23 million. It wouldn't be awesome.

Yup. Sad to say that's the sticking point with quite a few things we do over here that I reckon would be awesome for you guys - the sheer difference in scale, coupled with differences in culture and political approach just mean it's never going to work the same.

I also read the wall of text (you may not have read that novel but you could sure write one!)
Looks spot on to me, from the outside looking in. Too big to fix?

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[rushmc 18]

If you would add #4 state and fed mandated coverages to policies, I pretty much agree with you


In the end, it boils down to being responcible

Democrate Congress critters do not want a responcible population. Why? They vote for the other side (very wide brush but generally true)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 0]

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[Reply]Socialized health care while unemployed may not be ideal, but it's a damn sight better than no health insurance at all while unemployed.

What's your metric?