ryoder 1,400 #1 December 30, 2012 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/28/belgium-prosecutes-scientology-extortion-fraud_n_2375823.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #2 December 30, 2012 One down, how many to go? How many churches are there? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #3 December 30, 2012 Tom Cruise is going to be pissed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #4 December 30, 2012 How is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #5 December 30, 2012 Quote How is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. Start with the low hanging fruit... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,068 #6 December 30, 2012 Hi 1399, Quote Tom Cruise is going to be pissed! So if he gets called to testify do you think he will start jumping up and down on the witness chair? JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #7 December 30, 2012 QuoteHow is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. It's difficult to prove no life after death, just as its impossible to prove that there is life after death. Would make an interesting court case.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,260 #8 December 30, 2012 QuoteHow is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. Well, in the US there was that whole wiretapping the FBI thing, and I think in general they are more systematic and ruthless with the pressuring for money from followers, seperating them from non-scientologists to make leaving more difficult, and the almost certain fact that the whole thing is run by guys at the top who know it's a con.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #9 December 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteHow is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. It's difficult to prove no life after death, just as its impossible to prove that there is life after death. Would make an interesting court case. There is the thought that if there is no evidence to support a claim then there is no reason to believe it. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #10 December 30, 2012 Quote Hi 1399, Quote Tom Cruise is going to be pissed! So if he gets called to testify do you think he will start jumping up and down on the witness chair? JerryBaumchen And screaming.... "You can't handle the truth"................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #11 December 31, 2012 QuoteThe church of Scientology -- which is not recognized as a faith in Belgium -- and several of its top-ranking members face charges including extortion, fraud, illegal practice of medicine and violation of privacy laws, according to Flanders News. Most every organized religion could be prosecuted for those charges - justifiably so, IMO. The real message here is not that the Scientologists have been prosecuted; it's this: if you want to engage in conduct that would be criminal if committed by anyone else in society, get yourself recognized as an organized religion. They have a license to commit crimes under a blanket of protection. Quite a racket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #12 December 31, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteHow is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. It's difficult to prove no life after death, just as its impossible to prove that there is life after death. Would make an interesting court case. There is the thought that if there is no evidence to support a claim then there is no reason to believe it. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. Correct.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #13 December 31, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. It's difficult to prove no life after death, just as its impossible to prove that there is life after death. Would make an interesting court case. There is the thought that if there is no evidence to support a claim then there is no reason to believe it. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. Correct. So I would think that would mean that no need to even try to prove that there is no life after death. That would make it a purely one sided court case. Those making the claim would need to provide sufficient evidence supporting their claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #14 December 31, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. It's difficult to prove no life after death, just as its impossible to prove that there is life after death. Would make an interesting court case. There is the thought that if there is no evidence to support a claim then there is no reason to believe it. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. Correct. So I would think that would mean that no need to even try to prove that there is no life after death. That would make it a purely one sided court case. Those making the claim would need to provide sufficient evidence supporting their claim. Depends if you're talking about common sense and logic, or the court system.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #15 December 31, 2012 Silly me, I tend to associate our court system with logic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #16 December 31, 2012 ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #17 December 31, 2012 Yeah, I know better. Thankfully I don't deal with the court system very often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #18 December 31, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow is it any more a criminal organization then any other religion? They all make promises they can't keep and promote false hope. It's difficult to prove no life after death, just as its impossible to prove that there is life after death. Would make an interesting court case. There is the thought that if there is no evidence to support a claim then there is no reason to believe it. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. Correct. So I would think that would mean that no need to even try to prove that there is no life after death. That would make it a purely one sided court case. Those making the claim would need to provide sufficient evidence supporting their claim. I think it might be the opposite in the US. If our standard is "innocent until proven guilty", it might be argued that the State would have to prove there is no life after death to get a conviction if the charge of fraud is based solely on the State's position that life after death is a fairytale. That might involve some interesting testimony ...not from clerics, etc., but from physicists. For example, what is the true physical meaning of "before" and "after"? Does "time", as we perceive it's direction, really exist outside of our living consciousness? What is the nature of consciousness? Does it exist only in a living brain only as long as synapses are firing? What connection, if any, does consciousness have to the physical universe? Hard to prove one way or the other. I suppose that's why they call it "faith". Also, it's my understanding that if "something" is not prevented from existing or happening by the (known) laws of physics, then it is possible that it does exist. So, to paraphrase your statement: if there is no evidence to support a claim that something does not exist or happen, then there is no reason to believe it doesn't (or cannot) exist or happen. It might be that believing in no life after death requires a little "faith", too. Not enough evidence to convict someone of fraud or extortion ...unless it could be proven that the flock is being fleeced. IOW, any donations are being diverted from their promised or intended use to personal use by church "officials". IMO, there is no problem with folks willingly giving to their chosen churches with the understanding that their gifts are going where they intend, whatever that might be ...whether or not their belief is based in reality. (1st Amendment). Of course, all bets are off in Belgium. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
