beowulf 1 #26 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteWell, we have made progress, there is a House Bill in the Senate, waiting. Currently there are two passed bills, one from each house, the "Plan A" if you will from the house of Reps, the Senate has tabled it. The Senate Bill has been tabled by the House of Reps, as well. Again TWO ASSHATS. This is where we are supposed to see the two come together and do the reconciliation, instead, it is the three way cluster fuck of politics. Of course the major issue is spending. It is nice to see the Senate start to acknowledge that as well. In the end; We lose and the Senate "Leader" "Wins". Matt The House bill on taxes is clearly a non starter as it just retains the damage done by the Bush tax cuts and has NO revenue increases. Irresponsible in the extreme. Boehner needs to get his Tea Partiers in line and pass something that has a chance of success. Irresponsible!!! HA! Irresponsible would be not realizing the real problem is spending too much and not that the Gov doesn't tax enough. The Gov spending is out of control. It would be irresponsible to give the Gov more money to waste. The US Gov is about to reach the debt limit again!!! It should not be raised. They need to cut spending not raise taxes. There is so much that can be cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,066 #27 December 28, 2012 Hi rocket, Quote This is politics. Just another day, like all days. An interesting commentary on the news this evening. He said that Congress may just let us go over the cliff, taxes for everyone will go up, then ( at a later date ) Congress will lower those new, higher taxes so that they can campaign about how they lowered taxes for us. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #28 December 28, 2012 Quote They need to cut spending not raise taxes. There is so much that can be cut. Yep, a 50% cut in defense spending and we'd still have the most powerful military in the world.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #29 December 28, 2012 Unfortunately that wouldn't even come close to balancing the budget. More cuts can be made and are needed. Between SSN, Medicare, Medicaid and the interest on the debt the total amount of money brought in by the US Gov has been exceeded. Beside cutting military spending and other unnecessary spending these entitlements need to be reformed and cut. We can't afford them. They are promises that can't be kept. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #30 December 28, 2012 QuoteUnfortunately that wouldn't even come close to balancing the budget. More cuts can be made and are needed. Between SSN, Medicare, Medicaid and the interest on the debt the total amount of money brought in by the US Gov has been exceeded. Beside cutting military spending and other unnecessary spending these entitlements need to be reformed and cut. We can't afford them. They are promises that can't be kept. SS is independently funded and is not currently in debt. Its long term health is an issue, but not this issue. Medicare has its own tax too, although Bush's Prescription Drug Benefit is essentially unfunded. Try to come up with something realistic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #31 December 28, 2012 Try to come up with something realistic. How about getting obama's buddy George Soros to pony a few hundred million of HIS dollars to help us out...oh wait that higher tax bracket wont apply to him becase he gets liberal exemptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #32 December 28, 2012 Look more closely at SS, there is no money there. All the money for SS is immediately spent on special treasury bonds. The money is then pissed away by the gov. That is the realistic picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #33 December 28, 2012 QuoteLook more closely at SS, there is no money there. All the money for SS is immediately spent on special treasury bonds. The money is then pissed away by the gov. That is the realistic picture. How will cutting SS change the federal deficit?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #34 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteLook more closely at SS, there is no money there. All the money for SS is immediately spent on special treasury bonds. The money is then pissed away by the gov. That is the realistic picture. How will cutting SS change the federal deficit? Well what I said was it needed to be reformed and cut. That doesn't mean it should be cut immediately. There are lots of other programs that should be cut first. Unfortunately there are lots of people that are dependent on SS. I think that is a problem. I don't think that is a role the Gov should play. We need to wean people off of the Gov SS teat. So SS needs to be reformed and then eventually cut. That would take one burden off of the Gov and reduce the budget. SSN, Medicare and Medicaid are all things that the Gov should not be involved in. They just screw it up and cause more problems then they solve. Also they are fiscally unsustainable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #35 December 28, 2012 Well there is this news: Wall Street Journal "Social Security, which pays retirement and disability benefits to 56 million Americans, will exhaust its reserves by 2033, three years sooner than previously estimated, a new government report said Monday."... "The trustees who oversee Social Security's two trust funds—one for disability benefits, the other for retirees—said reserves for the fund that pays disability benefits would be exhausted by 2016, two years earlier than projected last year. And if the disability fund were combined with the larger fund that pays retiree benefits, all reserves would be exhausted by 2033, three years sooner than projected last year." "Based on this week's report from the folks responsible for the Medicare and Social Security Trust Funds, Americans -- and especially those under age 40 -- need to reconsider their retirement plans." So...it appears, having your SS dollars pulled from your paycheck every month is funding a ponzi scheme. Don't be a SUCKER like us old folks, get out while you can...save yourselve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #36 December 28, 2012 They seem to think there is some sort of bank account with money in it reserved for SS. There isn't! Look it up on the SS website. All funds are by law required to be spent immediately on "Special Treasury Bonds". If I remember right it says that in their FAQ page. So they have no money. They have to sell the bonds to pay out the SS checks and the Gov has to continue to borrow money to pay all of it's bills including the "Special Treasury Bonds". So the Gov is broke and is about to hit the "debt ceiling" which will be extended so that they can continue to borrow more and more money. We are on a fiscal train wreck and I think it's politically unfixable. No politician will every propose what is needed to be done to fix it because they would not be supported or reelected. Their job isn't to do the right thing it's to get reelected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #37 December 28, 2012 Fact is that SS is not funded out of general tax revenues and is actually reducing the apparent deficit due to accounting practices. SS has its own problems, but they are not the problems related to the "fiscal cliff".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #38 December 28, 2012 Quote Fact is that SS is not funded out of general tax revenues and is actually reducing the apparent deficit due to accounting practices. SS has its own problems, but they are not the problems related to the "fiscal cliff". Are you saying that they aren't spending all the money on Special Treasury Bonds??? I never said this is related to the Fiscal Cliff. It does relate directly to the deficits and the debt. http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/404/kw/special%20treasury%20bonds Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #39 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuote Fact is that SS is not funded out of general tax revenues and is actually reducing the apparent deficit due to accounting practices. SS has its own problems, but they are not the problems related to the "fiscal cliff". Are you saying that they aren't spending all the money on Special Treasury Bonds??? http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/404/kw/special%20treasury%20bonds No, but not relevant to the issue. SS has its own budget and is not in debt.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #40 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Fact is that SS is not funded out of general tax revenues and is actually reducing the apparent deficit due to accounting practices. SS has its own problems, but they are not the problems related to the "fiscal cliff". Are you saying that they aren't spending all the money on Special Treasury Bonds??? http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/404/kw/special%20treasury%20bonds No, but not relevant to the issue. SS has its own budget and is not in debt. Yeah right, it has a bunch of essentially IOU's from the Gov. Which are generating very little interest, which the Gov can't afford. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #41 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Fact is that SS is not funded out of general tax revenues and is actually reducing the apparent deficit due to accounting practices. SS has its own problems, but they are not the problems related to the "fiscal cliff". Are you saying that they aren't spending all the money on Special Treasury Bonds??? http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/404/kw/special%20treasury%20bonds No, but not relevant to the issue. SS has its own budget and is not in debt. Yeah right, it has a bunch of essentially IOU's from the Gov. Which are generating very little interest, which the Gov can't afford. In that respect SS in no different than any other holder of government debt. Still not relevant to the fiscal cliff issue.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #42 December 28, 2012 Just because the accountant's find ways to make it look like it's not a part of the debt doesn't mean it isn't. Those treasury bonds still need to be paid and that is a part of the obligations of the Gov which means in reality it is part of the debt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #43 December 28, 2012 QuoteJust because the accountant's find ways to make it look like it's not a part of the debt doesn't mean it isn't. Those treasury bonds still need to be paid and that is a part of the obligations of the Gov which means in reality it is part of the debt. So are bonds held by anyone who buys them, whether China or US citizens. Still not relevant to the fiscal cliff.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #44 December 28, 2012 The Fiscal Cliff is more of a political bullshit smoke and mirror distraction. Even if they do come to an agreement it does nothing to solve the debt or deficit problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #45 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteJust because the accountant's find ways to make it look like it's not a part of the debt doesn't mean it isn't. Those treasury bonds still need to be paid and that is a part of the obligations of the Gov which means in reality it is part of the debt. So are bonds held by anyone who buys them, whether China or US citizens. Still not relevant to the fiscal cliff. You are right and this has been a tangent. I never said it had anything to do with the Fiscal Cliff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #46 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteJust because the accountant's find ways to make it look like it's not a part of the debt doesn't mean it isn't. Those treasury bonds still need to be paid and that is a part of the obligations of the Gov which means in reality it is part of the debt. So are bonds held by anyone who buys them, whether China or US citizens. Still not relevant to the fiscal cliff. You are right and this has been a tangent. I never said it had anything to do with the Fiscal Cliff. OK, I thought you were responding to the thread title.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #47 December 28, 2012 QuoteThe Fiscal Cliff is more of a political bullshit smoke and mirror distraction. Even if they do come to an agreement it does nothing to solve the debt or deficit problem. Indeed. The true fiscal cliff is out there in the future. We’re not even talking about it. We think the deficits are bad now? Continuing as we are will give the US government unfunded liabilities of anywhere between $60 trillion and $120 trillion by the middle of this century. That is “UNFUNDED” – no way to pay for them. How big? Projections are that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security spending will themselves take up to 35% of the GDP by 2070. So if there is, for example, $20 trillion GDP in 2070, $7 trillion will be spent just on those three things. (Imagine doubling our current budget and then using it just for Medicare, Medicaid and SS and nothing else). My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #48 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe Fiscal Cliff is more of a political bullshit smoke and mirror distraction. Even if they do come to an agreement it does nothing to solve the debt or deficit problem. Indeed. The true fiscal cliff is out there in the future. We’re not even talking about it. We think the deficits are bad now? Continuing as we are will give the US government unfunded liabilities of anywhere between $60 trillion and $120 trillion by the middle of this century. That is “UNFUNDED” – no way to pay for them. How big? Projections are that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security spending will themselves take up to 35% of the GDP by 2070. So if there is, for example, $20 trillion GDP in 2070, $7 trillion will be spent just on those three things. (Imagine doubling our current budget and then using it just for Medicare, Medicaid and SS and nothing else). Yeah I don't see any good way out of this and the politicians won't come up with anything realistic other then try and kick the can down the road. Eventually the bond market is going to throw up and then things will get very interesting. The US has no hope of ever paying down this debt to a manageable level or even really slowing down it's increase (deficits). I am very interested to see what happens with Japan. I think the US Gov is following a similar path. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #49 December 28, 2012 Looks like it although the US government have 200 Billion which should be good for two months which might give enough time to sort things out. However when the political parties are playing chicken with the economy and are prepared to see the country suffer to make a party point then you know your system is truly FUBAR.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #50 December 28, 2012 The suffering will have to start some time. This is just a taste of what is necessary. I compare it to the nation having to go through economic detox. It'll have to happen sometime, and it can either be gentle or cold turkey. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
