NRA wants armed guards in schools

[muff528 3]

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If we did this, what's the worst thing that could happen? Tell me the downside.

So far, so good. The parents like it, the schools like it and the kids like it. ...although I'm sure we are having to live without one or two other projects or services we can't live without. I think.

[muff528 3]

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/21/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-idUSBRE8BI1BV20121221

As discussion of this is going on in the other thread

In any event

It is an idea way past its time

Our central Florida county has had at least one armed, uniformed Sheriff's deputy ("School Resource Officer") present at each middle and high school for years. Some elementary schools, too. They are more than just an armed security guard standing around waiting for "something" to happen. They act as a direct and accessible link between parents, students and the school to local LE by sharing information that affects security of the neighborhoods and the schools. (gang activity, safety concerns, etc.)

Correction - In addition to Sheriff's deputies, various cities within the county provide police officers for the program. However, an officer or deputy may be assigned to more than one school. I would like to see 1 cop/school.

[kallend 1,644]

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If we did this, what's the worst thing that could happen? Tell me the downside.

The downside is we spend a lot of money on a stupid idea. This is like GM saying that the only way to have fewer accidents on the roads is for the police to buy more cars. Sure, it's ONE solution but no ONE solution is the best solution or the all encompassing single answer that will make everyone happy, which is what this is more about.

Pay for it with a tax on guns and ammo. Then those that think guns solve violence problems get to pay for the solution.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/jersey_town_adopts_schoolhouse_glocks_ID5tknLmS1oOuWbD62d51K

[ianmdrennan 2]

I really don't think it'll be a deterrent (not that I'm against it, in principal at least) to armed rampages.

The bottom line is that no law, no cop, or armed deterrent is going to stop a determined individual.

The question I believe we should be asking is "Why do we have so many violently motivated individuals?".

Is it cultural; do we glorify violence too much; do we ignore, or repress, mental issues; have we created a culture that places too much emphasis on superficial accomplishments where already insecure individuals feel they have no other way to make their mark?

I don't know, but these are the things that go through my mind.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Gravitymaster 0]

I agree. That's why the focus should be on making sure crazy's and violent criminals don't get them, while at the same time not infringing on law abiding citizens Constitutional Right to own a firearm.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I agree. That's why the focus should be on making sure crazy's and violent criminals don't get them, while at the same time not infringing on law abiding citizens Constitutional Right to own a firearm.

Agree 100%

I do have a question though (and it's my understanding what follows is accurate, if not feel free to correct) - why are people so opposed to private sale regulation (purely for the reasons stated above)? Not trying to bait, it's something I've always been a little mystified by.

Personally I have no problem going through pretty much any sort of background check to prove I'm of sound mind to own a firearm - private sale or not.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Gravitymaster 0]

Because many people feel the government has too much involvement in theirs lives already. They do not trust Politicians to simply create a database whose sole purpose is to prevent crazies from getting guns. When government starts to do what they promise instead of using every issue to creep further into people lives, then government will find people more cooperative. As it is, people hold Used Car Salesmen in higher esteem.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Yes, but I'm asking about background checks.

If I have to do a background check buying a firearm from a dealer, why don't I have to go through the same process in a private sale (or do I?)

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[rushmc 18]

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If we did this, what's the worst thing that could happen? Tell me the downside.

The downside is we spend a lot of money on a stupid idea. This is like GM saying that the only way to have fewer accidents on the roads is for the police to buy more cars. Sure, it's ONE solution but no ONE solution is the best solution or the all encompassing single answer that will make everyone happy, which is what this is more about.

Pay for it with a tax on guns and ammo. Then those that think guns solve violence problems get to pay for the solution.

Property tax

Then ALL who benefit pay

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Yes, but I'm asking about background checks.

If I have to do a background check buying a firearm from a dealer, why don't I have to go through the same process in a private sale (or do I?)

Ian

the law here in Iowa requires a seller to make sure the buyer has a permit to purchase (which is issued by the sheriffs office in the county you live in) or an Iowa permit to conceal carry. In essence a background check has been performed but many still do not like this because there is no paperwork

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

What guns specifically do citizens own that you think belong in the military and why?

[ianmdrennan 2]

Interesting. Thanks!

Seems to me that, in those cases, a background check has been performed. if you have the paperwork, you have the paperwork - no sense in redoing it over and over.

From what I can tell this isn't the case in all states, is that accurate? Is there resistance to this being implemented across the US as a broad policy?

Thanks,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Gravitymaster 0]

1. How long do you think it takes to load another magazine? I can do it in a few seconds.

2. What assault weapon do you think people have access to that should be banned?

3. How do any of your recommendations keep ciminals from obtaining a weapon?

[kawisixer01 0]

I love the "10 round mag" magical number. Columbine took place during the previous "assault weapons ban" It was committed with ten round mags taped together. It was also committed with a normal ol' 12 gauge shot gun. Arguably the most widely used hunting arm in existence used for everything from bird hunting to deer hunting. Any exception you leave will be exploided by those who would do harm. The most natorious mass killing in our history took place with the force of box cutters. Calling a modular rifle that happens to be one of the best sporting rifles ever used for hunting an "assualt weapon" or "military" weapon is a joke. It's akin to calling my truck in the driveway a "military style truck" because I have four wheel drive, a two way radio, partial roll cage, winch, tow hooks, gun rack,flood lights, and mudding tires.

[DJL 232]

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I agree. That's why the focus should be on making sure crazy's and violent criminals don't get them, while at the same time not infringing on law abiding citizens Constitutional Right to own a firearm.

There's been hardly a peep that this guy's mother had easily accessible firearms under the same roof as a crazy person. My guns are at an entirely different address just because I don't have a lockable cabinet. Sure, a gun is a tool. But we know what this tool does. How are we so oblivious?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[skypuppy 1]

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What guns specifically do citizens own that you think belong in the military and why?

How about if I answer your question this way:

Restrict pistol mag capacities to a maximum of ten rounds. I suppose you'd have to grandfather some Glocks, but sell no further models that carry more than ten.

No assualt weapons unless you jump through major Federal hoops first, and no mags for them above ten rounds.

Establish a basic licensing system for first-time ownership that includes a picture license. Requirements: Proper age, training in use, safety course. Two levels, one general for 'normal' weapons, non-concealed carry. A second level for the same weapons, concealed carry. Possibly a third level that allows you to carry those grandfathered Glocks I mentioned, or similar.

My 'gun' background is like this: US Army vet, mid-1970's. Gun owner since the age of 16.

Look at it this way: If you standardize these things, it puts most citizens on an even level regarding weapons. How will you protect yourself or your family if someone comes at you with fifty rounds in an assault rifle, and you are armed with a shotgun? The playing field (hate to put it that way) must be leveled, and the screening on ownership improved tremendously.

Well, cho at virginia tech (remember it = highest fatality count - even more than Newtown)with two standard handguns - one with a 10 round mag and one with a 15 round (a glock, I think). I think I heard he had 19 mags in his backpack (I could be wrong on the number)

High capacity mags are not the problem...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Gravitymaster 0]

How long do you think it takes to change a magazine on a handgun or an "assault rifle"? Have you ever even used a weapon? Your contentions are ridiculous if you think lives will be spared because someone has to take a few seconds to hit the release button, drop the magazine, insert another and then re-cock the weapon.

[skypuppy 1]

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Skypuppy says in part:

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'High capacity mags are not the problem...'

Really? Tell that to the families of the victims of the theatre shooting in Colorado. Try to sell that argument to them. Good luck.

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"Hello...(hello)...is there anybody IN there..."

Hi-cap mags aren't THE problem. They're just ONE of the problems (among many) regarding guns in America.

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What might have helped in the colorado theatre shooting is if the school psychologist who had seen and made observations on the guy had notified police or other people that there was a problem. Not real familiar with the shooting itself, but I seem to recall he had lots of weapons, so having a high-capacity mag in one weapon doesn't seem to up the ante a whole lot.

We just gave you two examples, columbine and virginia tech, that took place without high capacity mags. (as I said, cho had 1 10 round, and one 15 round handgun). I'll say it again, high capacity mags are not the problem.

Crazy people, and the people around them not recognizing their intentions, or worse, ignoring signs and statements of crazy people , that's the problem...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[kallend 1,644]

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Skypuppy says in part:

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'High capacity mags are not the problem...'

Really? Tell that to the families of the victims of the theatre shooting in Colorado. Try to sell that argument to them. Good luck.

Quote

"Hello...(hello)...is there anybody IN there..."

Hi-cap mags aren't THE problem. They're just ONE of the problems (among many) regarding guns in America.

__________________________________________________
What might have helped in the colorado theatre shooting is if the school psychologist who had seen and made observations on the guy had notified police or other people that there was a problem. Not real familiar with the shooting itself, but I seem to recall he had lots of weapons, so having a high-capacity mag in one weapon doesn't seem to up the ante a whole lot.
.

INDEED. Keeping crazy people from having easy access to guns needs to be the top priority. All else is secondary.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,146]

How do you tell a crazy person from one who's just a little weird?

Also, I've been to Honduras during times when every building had an armed guard outside it. It didn't make me feel safer.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Skypuppy says in part:

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'High capacity mags are not the problem...'

Really? Tell that to the families of the victims of the theatre shooting in Colorado. Try to sell that argument to them. Good luck.

Quote

"Hello...(hello)...is there anybody IN there..."

Hi-cap mags aren't THE problem. They're just ONE of the problems (among many) regarding guns in America.

__________________________________________________
What might have helped in the colorado theatre shooting is if the school psychologist who had seen and made observations on the guy had notified police or other people that there was a problem. Not real familiar with the shooting itself, but I seem to recall he had lots of weapons, so having a high-capacity mag in one weapon doesn't seem to up the ante a whole lot.
.

INDEED. Keeping crazy people from having easy access to guns needs to be the top priority. All else is secondary.

I agree. Now explain how we do that without trampling on the rights of the 99% who own guns responsibly. And explain how a national database would have prevented the shooting rampage in Newtown.

[DJL 232]

I think Kallend cared more about this

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I agree.

Than this:

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Now explain how we do that without trampling on the rights of the 99% who own guns responsibly. And explain how a national database would have prevented the shooting rampage in Newtown.

All I hear is crickets. My take is that gun owners need to figure it out before the 2nd amendment is modified. And by the way, don't look to the NRA for this. They don't represent American citizens, they represent people willing to give them money. Never forget that.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher