shah269 0 #1 June 6, 2012 HOLY SHIT! http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/06/06/requiem-for-a-recall/ That's some money!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2 June 6, 2012 QuoteHOLY SHIT! http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/06/06/requiem-for-a-recall/ That's some money! is it? the article didn't give numbers. Perhaps it's a reflection of the lack of support for the loser of the 2010 election in what was basically a do-over attempt? Obama and the DNC basically ignored the race, so no money there either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #3 June 6, 2012 More rich people liked Walker than liked the other guy. Since the other guy lost to Walker in the previous election by over 100,000 votes, it was probably a foregone conclusion anyway. Rich people's support matters more than poor people's support. Their votes don't, but they can buy way more publicity, and they can definitely buy access to important people. Money buys lots of stuff. Not sure it should buy quite as much as it does. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #4 June 6, 2012 Aw come on Wendy, it's not like you to play the victim/poor me card. With donors like Soros, Corzine and the like, it's pretty disengenuous to contend this came down to money. Especially considering Obama raised more money in 2008 than any President in history. The real question is why wasn't the Obama money machine in WI campaigning? That's the real truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #5 June 6, 2012 Guess you did not see the post in the Walker wins thread that shows this ratio is not true"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,390 #6 June 6, 2012 Thanks to a 1987 Wisconsin law, Walker was not subject to the same limitations as in a regular election: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2012/may/07/behind-rhetoric-why-walker-was-able-raise-unlimite/"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #7 June 6, 2012 What's "poor me" about this? I'm not in Wisconsin, and I know that the unions poured money into this campaign. The candidate who raises a disproportionately larger amount of money (yes, like Obama in 2008) is overwhelmingly likely to win. When that reflects a groundswell of support, by donations from lots and lots of people, I'm just fine with that. When it reflects one or two really, really rich people who want their opinion to drive the election, well, I'm not as fine with that. Things like Adelson bankrolling the Gingrich campaign are icky when he's guaranteed to lose (which Gingrich was), but worse when he wins. Because yes, then there is at least the perception (and likely fact) of much greater access having been bought. Just like all the other lobbyists on both sides. Only it's an individual, not even a cause. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #8 June 6, 2012 I'm so far from rich, far from Republican & a retired Union employee...but Walker got my vote ! Despite the cost of campaigning for his re-election, it cost us Wisconsin taxpayors & citizens much more in the recall process. His actions resulting in the recall are Wisconsin's savings grace, to the People as a whole ! Though I respect & appreciate our State's Emergency Service Employees & their entitlement of benefits, too many other State Employees Collective Bargaining Rights per Union contracts, resulted in gross abuse of all taxpayors. It was way overdue; someone took a stand & acted for the majority of the People, regardless of his Party. It would be nice if our Nation acted in the best of interest of us all, to say the least Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #9 June 7, 2012 I think the Unions grossely abused the recall process. The recall was just a pathetic attempt to overturn the results of an election and to subvert the will of the people. Walker was fairly elected, and fulfilling his campaign promises (rare these days) and the unions didn't like it. I think the recall option should only be used when an elected politician has broken laws or is clearly using his power for personal gain, or involved in some subversive activity. The people of WI should be embarrased that this fiasco was allowed to happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #10 June 7, 2012 Totally & wholeheartedly agreed... those that supported the recall for the most part, didn't want to sacrifice ( lose) what the majority either didn't have or had already lost... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #11 June 7, 2012 They followed the recall process fair and square; got about twice the number of required votes. I tend to agree that it was a stupid idea -- the problem with providing a process is that people will eventually use it, and then they'll eventually abuse it. And yeah, this was stupid. He did what he said he was going to do. Sounds like he tried to do it easy, and wasn't able to, so he said "fuck you I'm doing it the hard way." and did. As far as I can tell, neither of the previous recalls was due to using power for personal gain or subversion. The N. Dakota governor (1921) had some fairly radical views, but it doesn't sound like they were a surprise. I think there's still a place for organized labor, and I really decry attempts to remove it. But too much of the time the union is just as self-serving as management. I don't think that a lot of management deserves the money it gets, and labor shouldn't get to put forward a pension that's guaranteed to fail. Things change. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kawisixer01 0 #12 June 7, 2012 I can sorta maybe agree to organized labor IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. After all, management is there to bargain in protection of the company and it's share holders. When we look at public sectors often times the guys on the other side of the table from the union folks are the ones who they voted in. The only winner here is the unions and nobody is there to protect the tax payer. Also I have a choice on whether I want to purchase a union made good and support them. In the public sector I have no choice. I once belonged to the UAW, and drank the cool aid for awhile. I was even an alternate committee man for awhile. The I woke up, went to school, and figured out I don't want to work in an environment that's "us vs. them". It's wasteful and unpleasant. I feel if you don't agree to your working conditions, don't like your hours, don't like your pay? LEAVE! nobody forces you to go to work there. If the place is bad enough they won't be able to retain talent and will have to offer better packages. I just don't get this shit of trying extort your employer, and in the case of public sector you're trying to extort the tax payers. It's a free market, you don't like your condition it should be up to you to improve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #13 June 7, 2012 At about 8% unemployment offical and well over 15% unoffical I love reading this; if you don't agree to your working conditions, don't like your hours, don't like your pay? LEAVE! nobody forces you to go to work there. If the place is bad enough they won't be able to retain talent and will have to offer better packages. yeah leave this job and good luck finding another one that comes close to paying you the same! Most companies would fall over themselves to get YOU out of YOUR spot and hire a new guy or gal who will work harder than you and at a 25% pay cut. So good luck with the "If you don't like it walk away" line of logic. what gets me is that it was 7-1 in money spent. Yet walker only won with 7% lead. Wow that's kind of sad! To put that in prespective for every 100% increase in spending you only get 1% more of the vote!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #14 June 7, 2012 Interesting factual and historical synopsis of recall elections in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_elections#United_States Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #15 June 7, 2012 QuoteAt about 8% unemployment offical and well over 15% unoffical I love reading this; if you don't agree to your working conditions, don't like your hours, don't like your pay? LEAVE! nobody forces you to go to work there. If the place is bad enough they won't be able to retain talent and will have to offer better packages. yeah leave this job and good luck finding another one that comes close to paying you the same! Most companies would fall over themselves to get YOU out of YOUR spot and hire a new guy or gal who will work harder than you and at a 25% pay cut. So good luck with the "If you don't like it walk away" line of logic. what gets me is that it was 7-1 in money spent. Yet walker only won with 7% lead. Wow that's kind of sad! To put that in prespective for every 100% increase in spending you only get 1% more of the vote! The fact that most, like 80% plus, had already chose who they wanted to vote for months earlier. The money spent was spent to get the 10-20 perscent still deciding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #16 June 7, 2012 QuoteAt about 8% unemployment offical and well over 15% unoffical I love reading this; if you don't agree to your working conditions, don't like your hours, don't like your pay? LEAVE! nobody forces you to go to work there. If the place is bad enough they won't be able to retain talent and will have to offer better packages. yeah leave this job and good luck finding another one that comes close to paying you the same! Most companies would fall over themselves to get YOU out of YOUR spot and hire a new guy or gal who will work harder than you and at a 25% pay cut. So good luck with the "If you don't like it walk away" line of logic. what gets me is that it was 7-1 in money spent. Yet walker only won with 7% lead. Wow that's kind of sad! To put that in prespective for every 100% increase in spending you only get 1% more of the vote! Again The 7 to 1 spending advantage is a lie! Unions spent nearly 22 millions which the media and now you do not want to recognized The unions got beat Fair and square Live with it"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #17 June 7, 2012 Please contact Forbs and let them know they lied. Don't argue with me, I'm just reading the info.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #18 June 7, 2012 QuotePlease contact Forbs and let them know they lied. Don't argue with me, I'm just reading the info. You mean regurgitating talking points"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #19 June 7, 2012 What was that about an irony meter??Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #20 June 7, 2012 QuoteWhat was that about an irony meter?? You accept the lies too then Good to know where you stand"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #21 June 7, 2012 No, that's not at all what I said. I simply commented on your comment about regurgitating talking points. I haven't commented on the Scott Walker story. However, to prevent you making more incorrect assumptions and breaking some sort of personal record I'll share my current thoughts on the issue: IMO he won, fair and square. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #22 June 7, 2012 QuoteQuotePlease contact Forbs and let them know they lied. Don't argue with me, I'm just reading the info. You mean regurgitating talking points Nope regarding Requiem For A Recall: Money Likely Not Key To Walker Win Go on be a big boy call them up and tell them they are wrong.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 June 7, 2012 QuotePlease contact Forbs and let them know they lied. Don't argue with me, I'm just reading the info. The fact that Forbes mentions 7:1 (but no citation or actual figures) doesn't mean that you can quote it as gospel. And the point of the article seemed to be that the money wasn't the factor, a part you completely ignored. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #24 June 7, 2012 QuoteQuotePlease contact Forbs and let them know they lied. Don't argue with me, I'm just reading the info. The fact that Forbes mentions 7:1 (but no citation or actual figures) doesn't mean that you can quote it as gospel. And the point of the article seemed to be that the money wasn't the factor, a part you completely ignored. Hey if i spend 700 times what you spend and i only get an extra 7% of the vote I would say that's interesting reading right there. But freel free to write them up and tell them to put the right numbers in the article.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #25 June 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotePlease contact Forbs and let them know they lied. Don't argue with me, I'm just reading the info. You mean regurgitating talking points Nope regarding Requiem For A Recall: Money Likely Not Key To Walker Win Go on be a big boy call them up and tell them they are wrong. Dont have to They already know FYI http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2012/06/big-labor-recall-total-to-exceed-20-million/"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
