Christians - how do you rationalise your belief?

[RonD1120 58]

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Are you able to give me an example so I can better understand your question? I cannot think of any unsolvable problem that requires the belief/faith in a deity to be "dealt with".

I don't know what your life is like. It is a question only you can answer.

For me it was being homeless, strung out and no peace of mind.

If you have no unsolvable problems you are presenting yourself as the smartest, richest, most powerful person on the planet. Or, you are just a young man that has not ventured very far from safety.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Doyle 0]

No, I don't view my life as a question and its not an unsolvable problem. If this is your outlook on your own life then that's sad and I hope your faith saves you from the reality you cant deal with.

I never said that I've never been faced with an unsolvable problem, I said that I tackle these in a way other than faith, a more mature, realistic, rational way.

Try not to twist my words.

[RonD1120 58]

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No, I don't view my life as a question and its not an unsolvable problem. If this is your outlook on your own life then that's sad and I hope your faith saves you from the reality you cant deal with.

I never said that I've never been faced with an unsolvable problem, I said that I tackle these in a way other than faith, a more mature, realistic, rational way.

Try not to twist my words.

I am not twisting your words. You are saying you have never been afraid or bested or suffered any mental health or physical health issues. That's wonderful and I hope you don't have to experience such calamity. However, the odds are eventually you will. Good luck.

As an anecdotal comment, I have never met an Aussie that exhibited any form of recognizable anxiety. As a society they seem to be the most optimistic of humans.

I was born and raised in America. Everyone seems to want us enslaved or dead.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Marinus 0]

If you mean by unsolvable problems, a problem that can't be fixed, like the death of a loved one, why do you think people need to have a religion/faith to deal with that? Personally I classify that shit in the category "Shit that just happens" and cope with it. No need to make up a spirit in the sky to deal with things you can't fix.

[RonD1120 58]

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If you mean by unsolvable problems,

I explained what it meant for me. Scroll up.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Doyle 0]

Very well, thank you for the good wishes but I think there was a miss-communication because that's not what I said. I assume you are referring to my previous comment: "I cannot think of any unsolvable problem that requires the belief/faith in a deity to be "dealt with"."

If that's the case, what I was trying to say is, in my opinion, no problem or question needs to be dealt with using faith in a god.

[RonD1120 58]

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Very well, thank you for the good wishes but I think there was a miss-communication because that's not what I said. I assume you are referring to my previous comment: "I cannot think of any unsolvable problem that requires the belief/faith in a deity to be "dealt with"."

If that's the case, what I was trying to say is, in my opinion, no problem or question needs to be dealt with using faith in a god.

OK!

I was not so fortunate on 16 Mar 81 for the previously explained circumstances.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

How about this guy?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4210880;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

He obviously got to the end of his hope. It happens to some people.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Marinus 0]

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I explained what it meant for me. Scroll up.

I'm sorry, but being homeless, addicted to drugs and lacking peace of mind aren't unsolvable problems. Those are, without question serious problems, but they can be solved without the use of magic. I assume you did get your shit together, and you should be proud of that, but by solving your problems you pretty much proved those problems were solvable.

[nigel99 144]

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How about this guy?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4210880;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

He obviously got to the end of his hope. It happens to some people.

Not sure if you have ever read "The road less travelled" by Scott Peck? In his book he talks about how some of his patients receive healing from their mental illness by getting religion. He also talks about how some get healing by losing religion.

Some people (perhaps many people) are better off when they have religion to guide their lives.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[popsjumper 2]

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I never said that I've never been faced with an unsolvable problem, I said that I tackle these in a way other than faith, a more mature, realistic, rational way.

...what I was trying to say is, in my opinion, no problem or question needs to be dealt with using faith in a god.

While respecting that you have one, I do take note that your opinion seems to be based on it being the more "mature, realistic and rational way."

I would question the criteria upon which your statement is based. If it is YOUR self-set criteria, then I would ask for credentials that would allow me to reflect on the possibility of your opinion affecting, or possibly changing, mine.


Or, to put it another way, as some of the more volatile would have it, WTF makes your opinion more valid than the opinion of anybody else?

(You may choose the tone that most suits your needs)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Some people (perhaps many people) are better off when they have religion to guide their lives.

Awwww, now Nigel, we can't have that!

People actually benefitting from having religious convictions? You gotta be kidding me.

Babin and the other religiophobes are gonna go nuts when they read that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[RonD1120 58]

I had been trying to solve my problem for over 8 years without success. That is the point. I was saved.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[cocheese 0]

Cut out the middle man and solve your own problems. Be the god of your own religion and solve your own problems. Look toward science and solve your own problems.

Religion is for those who can't find the real answers to the problem. A total waste of time and thought.

[RonD1120 58]

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Religion is for those who can't find the real answers to the problem. A total waste of time and thought.

Except when it works. Jesus is there for those who seek Him. No seek, no find. You must knock on the door for it to be opened.

Your choice. It is called free will.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[popsjumper 2]

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Except when it works. Jesus is there for those who seek Him. No seek, no find. You must knock on the door for it to be opened.

Your choice. It is called free will.

Those guys aren't going to allow you to have free will nor will they accept that religious beliefs can be beneficial to anyone. Let 'em wallow in the mire of their own self-importance.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[RonD1120 58]

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Except when it works. Jesus is there for those who seek Him. No seek, no find. You must knock on the door for it to be opened.

Your choice. It is called free will.

Those guys aren't going to allow you to have free will nor will they accept that religious beliefs can be beneficial to anyone. Let 'em wallow in the mire of their own self-importance.

Amen

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Doyle 0]

So you are saying blind faith is a rational, realistic and mature way to tackle life?

[Doyle 0]

What an inaccurate comment, king of assumptions right here people.

[lurch 0]

"If you have no unsolvable problems you are presenting yourself as the smartest, richest, most powerful person on the planet. Or, you are just a young man that has not ventured very far from safety. "

Now, THAT, is so much bullshit. Pardon me.

Atheist here. 35 year old adventurer. Have spent much of my life rather far from safety and I like it that way. Entire life has been an exercise in "road less travelled"...

I am neither rich nor "powerful". I'm fairly smart but hardly the brightest in the world.

I don't have any insoluble problems. Some difficult ones, yeah, and some I can't do much about. Some, the solution is to abide and just let it go.

But off the top of my head I can't think of any problems I personally have that are insoluble. I can't think of a single problem I've ever had in which begging assistance or favors from nonexistent imaginary beings would be of any utility. Or having any belief in such.
Further, most cases I've been in where a "theist" would resort to prayer, I've found that initiating rational thought and methodical problem-solving behavior was far more productive. You go ahead, fall on your knees, abject yourself and beg, I'll just stand up like a human being and fix whats broken or learn to deal and find a workaround if it can't be fixed. While you're still begging help from a silent vacuum I'll be long since moved on to the next problem.
Irony: I put a lot more "faith" in the atheists I know because they're MUCH better in a crisis. They have no impulse to throw up their hands, go helpless and start begging for help. They know there is no help but what we make, and so, like me, when the shit hits the fan they just start handling it. "Beg for help from unicorns" is simply not in their option list. Nor mine.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[RonD1120 58]

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"If you have no unsolvable problems you are presenting yourself as the smartest, richest, most powerful person on the planet. Or, you are just a young man that has not ventured very far from safety. "

Now, THAT, is so much bullshit. Pardon me.

Atheist here. 35 year old adventurer. Have spent much of my life rather far from safety and I like it that way. Entire life has been an exercise in "road less travelled"...

I am neither rich nor "powerful". I'm fairly smart but hardly the brightest in the world.

I don't have any insoluble problems. Some difficult ones, yeah, and some I can't do much about. Some, the solution is to abide and just let it go.

But off the top of my head I can't think of any problems I personally have that are insoluble. I can't think of a single problem I've ever had in which begging assistance or favors from nonexistent imaginary beings would be of any utility. Or having any belief in such.
Further, most cases I've been in where a "theist" would resort to prayer, I've found that initiating rational thought and methodical problem-solving behavior was far more productive. You go ahead, fall on your knees, abject yourself and beg, I'll just stand up like a human being and fix whats broken or learn to deal and find a workaround if it can't be fixed. While you're still begging help from a silent vacuum I'll be long since moved on to the next problem.
Irony: I put a lot more "faith" in the atheists I know because they're MUCH better in a crisis. They have no impulse to throw up their hands, go helpless and start begging for help. They know there is no help but what we make, and so, like me, when the shit hits the fan they just start handling it. "Beg for help from unicorns" is simply not in their option list. Nor mine.
-B

Good luck and go get'm. That approach, which included a MA degree in rehab counseling, didn't work for me. My testimony is my testimony. I have experienced 30 years of a changed life, which includes 28 years straight, clean and sober.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Coreece 190]

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I can't think of a single problem I've ever had in which begging assistance or favors from nonexistent imaginary beings would be of any utility. Or having any belief in such.
Further, most cases I've been in where a "theist" would resort to prayer, I've found that initiating rational thought and methodical problem-solving behavior was far more productive. You go ahead, fall on your knees, abject yourself and beg, I'll just stand up like a human being and fix whats broken or learn to deal and find a workaround if it can't be fixed. While you're still begging help from a silent vacuum I'll be long since moved on to the next problem.
Irony: I put a lot more "faith" in the atheists I know because they're MUCH better in a crisis. They have no impulse to throw up their hands, go helpless and start begging for help. They know there is no help but what we make, and so, like me, when the shit hits the fan they just start handling it. "Beg for help from unicorns" is simply not in their option list. Nor mine.

Oh, I see...you have created yourself this scarecrow god made of straw simply to despise it.

...typical.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

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"If you have no unsolvable problems you are presenting yourself as the smartest, richest, most powerful person on the planet. Or, you are just a young man that has not ventured very far from safety. "

Now, THAT, is so much bullshit. Pardon me.

Atheist here. 35 year old adventurer. Have spent much of my life rather far from safety and I like it that way. Entire life has been an exercise in "road less travelled"...

I am neither rich nor "powerful". I'm fairly smart but hardly the brightest in the world.

I don't have any insoluble problems. Some difficult ones, yeah, and some I can't do much about. Some, the solution is to abide and just let it go.

But off the top of my head I can't think of any problems I personally have that are insoluble. I can't think of a single problem I've ever had in which begging assistance or favors from nonexistent imaginary beings would be of any utility. Or having any belief in such.
Further, most cases I've been in where a "theist" would resort to prayer, I've found that initiating rational thought and methodical problem-solving behavior was far more productive. You go ahead, fall on your knees, abject yourself and beg, I'll just stand up like a human being and fix whats broken or learn to deal and find a workaround if it can't be fixed. While you're still begging help from a silent vacuum I'll be long since moved on to the next problem.
Irony: I put a lot more "faith" in the atheists I know because they're MUCH better in a crisis. They have no impulse to throw up their hands, go helpless and start begging for help. They know there is no help but what we make, and so, like me, when the shit hits the fan they just start handling it. "Beg for help from unicorns" is simply not in their option list. Nor mine.
-B

I enjoyed reading that. Thanks, Lurch. That was refreshing.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Coreece 190]

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I enjoyed reading that. Thanks, Lurch. That was refreshing.

Yes, apparently even you can be taken in by fantasy and the illusions of the imagination....but I'm just curious about how you plan to "coax them closer to reality" when they're unable to relate to your strawman arguments? Sounds more like an excercise in futility to me...

Constantly berating someone about their obesity and chain smoking in an attempt to coax them back to health is rather useless if they're not obese, don't smoke and are in fact already healthy...people may start questioning your ability to preceive reality and start coaxing you back with medication.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

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"If you have no unsolvable problems you are presenting yourself as the smartest, richest, most powerful person on the planet. Or, you are just a young man that has not ventured very far from safety. "

Now, THAT, is so much bullshit. Pardon me.

Atheist here. 35 year old adventurer. Have spent much of my life rather far from safety and I like it that way. Entire life has been an exercise in "road less travelled"...

I am neither rich nor "powerful". I'm fairly smart but hardly the brightest in the world.

I don't have any insoluble problems. Some difficult ones, yeah, and some I can't do much about. Some, the solution is to abide and just let it go.

But off the top of my head I can't think of any problems I personally have that are insoluble. I can't think of a single problem I've ever had in which begging assistance or favors from nonexistent imaginary beings would be of any utility. Or having any belief in such.
Further, most cases I've been in where a "theist" would resort to prayer, I've found that initiating rational thought and methodical problem-solving behavior was far more productive. You go ahead, fall on your knees, abject yourself and beg, I'll just stand up like a human being and fix whats broken or learn to deal and find a workaround if it can't be fixed. While you're still begging help from a silent vacuum I'll be long since moved on to the next problem.
Irony: I put a lot more "faith" in the atheists I know because they're MUCH better in a crisis. They have no impulse to throw up their hands, go helpless and start begging for help. They know there is no help but what we make, and so, like me, when the shit hits the fan they just start handling it. "Beg for help from unicorns" is simply not in their option list. Nor mine.
-B

Thanks again, Lurch.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."