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JohnRich

Armed Citizens

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Can't blame the bear for doing what it has always done.



Can't blame the people for refusing to be Purina Bear Chow®, either.



They didn't refuse. Quite the opposite. They boxed themselves up and put labels on saying, "Here is your breakfast! Come and get it!" You go into their house, you are their food.

You CAN blame the adults for not adequately providing the protections promised beforehand.



What promised protections were those, pray tell?

Known: Taking kids into a dangerous area.
>> It's not like they were camped 50 feet outside of a den. Any time you get away from Big City you're at the mercy of Mother Nature.

Known: Weapons needed for protection
>> The guide had a rifle - you know, the one he killed the bear with?

Known: Bears are likely to be aggressive
>> See first response

Known: Need to be vigiliant 24/7
>> Alarm tripwires were set up around camp, according to the article I read

Known: The "protectors" allowed the bear to get a good taste of the chow before acting
>> The attack was at 7:30am - evidently they were still asleep in their tents.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Why do you think I missed that? Are you saying it's stupid to carry a gun?



No, Jakee. I'm saying I think you ask stupid questions.
True to form and I'd expect nothing less from your posts.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Can't blame the bear for doing what it has always done.



Can't blame the people for refusing to be Purina Bear Chow®, either.



They didn't refuse. Quite the opposite. They boxed themselves up and put labels on saying, "Here is your breakfast! Come and get it!" You go into their house, you are their food.

You CAN blame the adults for not adequately providing the protections promised beforehand.



What promised protections were those, pray tell?
From the OPs article: "Other postings detailed that the group had been trained in using bear flares to protect their camps, and also received rifle training."
So who had the rifles? The kids?


Known: Taking kids into a dangerous area.
>> It's not like they were camped 50 feet outside of a den. Any time you get away from Big City you're at the mercy of Mother Nature.
Really? REALLY? What's you point other than stating the obvious?

Known: Weapons needed for protection
>> The guide had a rifle - you know, the one he killed the bear with?
Kinda slow on the draw wasn't he? Didn't do much to protect the 5 unarmed people.

Known: Bears are likely to be aggressive
>> See first response
See same.

Known: Need to be vigiliant 24/7
>> Alarm tripwires were set up around camp, according to the article I read
From the OPs article: "Oedegaard said campers normally lay a tripwire around tents before they go to sleep. An emergency flare is triggered if an animal crosses the wire. It was unclear whether the British campers' wire had worked properly, she said."
It's also unclear whether they even had one set up.
Now Mike...You're on patrol in enemy territory. Would you put your life in the hands od a mere trip wire or would you post guards? If you say wire, I'll retract anything related to this part of the discussion.


Known: The "protectors" allowed the bear to get a good taste of the chow before acting
>> The attack was at 7:30am - evidently they were still asleep in their tents.


With nobody on guard other than a "maybe" on a trip wire. Score one for the bears.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Gotta disagree on this one. That one statement, carried to its logical end would catagorize anyone who ever leaves their home as "stupid.".....Better cancel that trip to the dz, cause chances are good that you'll encounter more dangerous animals doing that than going for a hike



Well, you can use any twisted extreme you like to justify stupidity. Hell, it's the American way!

Since you don't think it's stupid to go where dangerous animals live, have at it. I can't imagine anyone saying it's a smart thing to do to intentionally expose yourself like that.
I'll recommend that you make an effort to protect yourself when you do. You can avoid the highly likely outcome with a little protection...if you use it in a timely manner. That's what the smarter people do when they do something stupid...kinda like skydiving, eh?


I do agree, though that the two-legged variety is more dangerous only because we're exposed to them on a regular basis.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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What promised protections were those, pray tell?
From the OPs article: "Other postings detailed that the group had been trained in using bear flares to protect their camps, and also received rifle training."
So who had the rifles? The kids?



The guide, evidently. I'm guessing the bear flare were attached the tripwires I saw mention of in the article I read.

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Known: Taking kids into a dangerous area.
>> It's not like they were camped 50 feet outside of a den. Any time you get away from Big City you're at the mercy of Mother Nature.
Really? REALLY? What's you point other than stating the obvious?



What was yours other than stating the obvious? "Nature, red in tooth and claw" isn't just a pithy catchphrase, y'know.

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Known: Weapons needed for protection
>> The guide had a rifle - you know, the one he killed the bear with?
Kinda slow on the draw wasn't he? Didn't do much to protect the 5 unarmed people.



Yes, Andy... when the kids screamed, the guides sat up, scratched their balls, took a leak, made coffee, and THEN finally strolled over and shot the bear.

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Known: Bears are likely to be aggressive
>> See first response
See same.



See "Nature, red in tooth and claw"

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Known: Need to be vigiliant 24/7
>> Alarm tripwires were set up around camp, according to the article I read
From the OPs article: "Oedegaard said campers normally lay a tripwire around tents before they go to sleep. An emergency flare is triggered if an animal crosses the wire. It was unclear whether the British campers' wire had worked properly, she said."
It's also unclear whether they even had one set up.
Now Mike...You're on patrol in enemy territory. Would you put your life in the hands od a mere trip wire or would you post guards? If you say wire, I'll retract anything related to this part of the discussion.



So, we're supposed to ASSUME that the campers would follow the same procedures as the military would in setting up a camp?

You *are* aware that the bears they *did* see the day before the attack were a mile or more away, yes?

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Known: The "protectors" allowed the bear to get a good taste of the chow before acting
>> The attack was at 7:30am - evidently they were still asleep in their tents.


With nobody on guard other than a "maybe" on a trip wire. Score one for the bears.



See 'rifle' and 'military' comments above. Must be nice to be able to accuse from 20/20 hindsight.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Applebee's Diner Shoots Mugger

An armed man wearing a ski mask who tried to rob a woman outside the Applebee's Restaurant Sunday was shot by her boyfriend.

Anthony Hauser, 19, was shot four times by Raven Smith of St. Petersburg, and is hospitalized in serious condition at Bayfront Medical Center, police said.

Smith, 35, has a pemit to carry a concelaed weapon, police said Monday, and acted in self defense.
Full story: http://oldnortheast.patch.com/articles/applebees-diner-shoots-mugger


What's your point on that? .... :|

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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No, Jakee. I'm saying I think you ask stupid questions.



Well, since you're a notorious troll who only ever gets involved in SC to attack people instead of discuss issues that's exactly what I'd expect you to say.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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News:

Woman Shoots Alleged Abductor

At about 4 p.m., the victim claims her ex-boyfriend took her at gun point from her home on Northfield. Then put her in the passenger seat of her car and he drove, but his alleged plan back fired in less than a mile.

"As they took off and were coming down Raymar Road she was able to get into her purse where she had a small caliber hand gun and was able to use the handgun. She shot the assailant and was able to escape," Sgt. Crowson explains.
Full story: http://www.katv.com/story/15232028/bryant-woman-shots-alleged-abductor



What is your point on that???

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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News:

Applebee's Diner Shoots Mugger

An armed man wearing a ski mask who tried to rob a woman outside the Applebee's Restaurant Sunday was shot by her boyfriend.

Anthony Hauser, 19, was shot four times by Raven Smith of St. Petersburg, and is hospitalized in serious condition at Bayfront Medical Center, police said.

Smith, 35, has a pemit to carry a concelaed weapon, police said Monday, and acted in self defense.
Full story: http://oldnortheast.patch.com/articles/applebees-diner-shoots-mugger


What's your point on that? .... :|


That an armed citizen stopped a violent crime...what's YOUR point?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Woman Shoots Alleged Abductor

At about 4 p.m., the victim claims her ex-boyfriend took her at gun point from her home on Northfield. Then put her in the passenger seat of her car and he drove, but his alleged plan back fired in less than a mile.

"As they took off and were coming down Raymar Road she was able to get into her purse where she had a small caliber hand gun and was able to use the handgun. She shot the assailant and was able to escape," Sgt. Crowson explains.
Full story: http://www.katv.com/story/15232028/bryant-woman-shots-alleged-abductor



What is your point on that???



That an armed citizen stopped a violent crime - what's YOUR point?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Shotgun-toting teen defends mom, home from burglars

A 16-year-old boy used a shotgun to defend his mother from three would-be burglars, the Hidalgo County Sheriff’s Office confirmed.

After a string of burglaries in the area, the boy and his mother were checking to make sure everything was intact on their property when they saw a vehicle approach, a Sheriff’s Office official said.

About 1:45 a.m., with the shotgun in hand, the boy confronted the three strangers who approached and told them to leave. Instead, they shot at him, and he fired back, hitting one in the leg...
Full story: http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/alto-129700-monte-home.html



What's your idea on that?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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News:

Applebee's Diner Shoots Mugger

An armed man wearing a ski mask who tried to rob a woman outside the Applebee's Restaurant Sunday was shot by her boyfriend.

Anthony Hauser, 19, was shot four times by Raven Smith of St. Petersburg, and is hospitalized in serious condition at Bayfront Medical Center, police said.

Smith, 35, has a pemit to carry a concelaed weapon, police said Monday, and acted in self defense.
Full story: http://oldnortheast.patch.com/articles/applebees-diner-shoots-mugger


What's your point on that? .... :|


That an armed citizen stopped a violent crime by another armed citizen...what's YOUR point?


The rest of the story.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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News:

Witness To Shooting Captures Suspect At Scene

A witness to a shooting in Skyway captured a suspect, handcuffed him and made him sit on the ground until deputies arrived on Saturday night, Eyewitness News reported.

The King County Sheriff's Office said there was an argument between two men over a drug deal. Both were carrying guns. "One guy was apparently quicker on the draw because the other guy got shot," said Sgt. John Urquhart of the Sheriff's Office. The shooting was in the parking lot of a U.S. Bank.

Urquhart said it was witnessed by a man who was there to use the ATM. He, too, had a gun -- and a pair of handcuffs. "When we got here, the shooter was searched, in handcuffs and sitting down on the curb..."
Full story: http://www.kirotv.com/news/28792794/detail.html



Why did you post this?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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News:

Shotgun-toting teen defends mom, home from burglars

A 16-year-old boy used a shotgun to defend his mother from three would-be burglars, the Hidalgo County Sheriff’s Office confirmed.

After a string of burglaries in the area, the boy and his mother were checking to make sure everything was intact on their property when they saw a vehicle approach, a Sheriff’s Office official said.

About 1:45 a.m., with the shotgun in hand, the boy confronted the three strangers who approached and told them to leave. Instead, they shot at him, and he fired back, hitting one in the leg...
Full story: http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/alto-129700-monte-home.html



What's your idea on that?



That an armed citizen stopped a violent crime - what's YOUR point?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Applebee's Diner Shoots Mugger

An armed man wearing a ski mask who tried to rob a woman outside the Applebee's Restaurant Sunday was shot by her boyfriend.

Anthony Hauser, 19, was shot four times by Raven Smith of St. Petersburg, and is hospitalized in serious condition at Bayfront Medical Center, police said.

Smith, 35, has a pemit to carry a concelaed weapon, police said Monday, and acted in self defense.
Full story: http://oldnortheast.patch.com/articles/applebees-diner-shoots-mugger


What's your point on that? .... :|


That an armed citizen stopped a violent crime by another armed citizen a criminal...what's YOUR point?


The rest of the story.


Made it accurate for you - nice of you to state that you changed my post...oh wait, you didn't.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Witness To Shooting Captures Suspect At Scene

A witness to a shooting in Skyway captured a suspect, handcuffed him and made him sit on the ground until deputies arrived on Saturday night, Eyewitness News reported.

The King County Sheriff's Office said there was an argument between two men over a drug deal. Both were carrying guns. "One guy was apparently quicker on the draw because the other guy got shot," said Sgt. John Urquhart of the Sheriff's Office. The shooting was in the parking lot of a U.S. Bank.

Urquhart said it was witnessed by a man who was there to use the ATM. He, too, had a gun -- and a pair of handcuffs. "When we got here, the shooter was searched, in handcuffs and sitting down on the curb..."
Full story: http://www.kirotv.com/news/28792794/detail.html



Why did you post this?



To show that an armed citizen stopped a violent crime - what's YOUR point?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Polar bear kills teen in Norway

A polar bear attacked a group of British students camping on a remote Arctic glacier as part of a high-end adventure holiday, killing a 17-year-old boy and injuring four other young people Friday before a trip member fatally shot the bear...
Full story: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-08-05-polar-bear-killing-norway_n.htm?csp=34news


You want to disarm polar bears?

How the heck should they catch food, then? Just imagine such a poor white animal w/o arms .... :o

Any proposals?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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Gotta disagree on this one. That one statement, carried to its logical end would catagorize anyone who ever leaves their home as "stupid.".....Better cancel that trip to the dz, cause chances are good that you'll encounter more dangerous animals doing that than going for a hike



Well, you can use any twisted extreme you like to justify stupidity. Hell, it's the American way!

Since you don't think it's stupid to go where dangerous animals live, have at it. I can't imagine anyone saying it's a smart thing to do to intentionally expose yourself like that.
I'll recommend that you make an effort to protect yourself when you do. You can avoid the highly likely outcome with a little protection...if you use it in a timely manner. That's what the smarter people do when they do something stupid...kinda like skydiving, eh?


I do agree, though that the two-legged variety is more dangerous only because we're exposed to them on a regular basis.


Well Andy...I doubt there's much you can tell me about what's smart and what's not when it comes to the outdoors. I've spent the better part of 50 years in the swamps, woods, and mountains. A lot of time hunting, fishing, and a shitload of time on multi-day solo hiking and camping trips. I'm not saying there's nothing left to learn; just that I'll obviously not glean any nuggets of outdoor wisdom from you. As far as protection - gotcha covered. Always! :|

You could do the public a great service though, and start hitting websites such as Backpacker.com, and Backpacker.net...hell don't stop there, head on over to the official PCT and AT websites and warn all the idiots about the "highly likely outcome" of venturing too far from the front porch. I'm sure they could use some good, informed advice. You really should do some research before you start spreading disinformation.

As far as skydiving? Like any other activity, it's only as dangerous as you make it. Like crossing a busy street outside a crosswalk without looking in either direction. People who cross those streets a lot have a much better way.

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I do agree, though that the two-legged variety is more dangerous only because we're exposed to them on a regular basis.



I thought that was a twisted extreme?

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

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News:

Polar bear kills teen in Norway

A polar bear attacked a group of British students camping on a remote Arctic glacier as part of a high-end adventure holiday, killing a 17-year-old boy and injuring four other young people Friday before a trip member fatally shot the bear...
Full story: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-08-05-polar-bear-killing-norway_n.htm?csp=34news


You want to disarm polar bears?

How the heck should they catch food, then? Just imagine such a poor white animal w/o arms .... :o

Any proposals?


Yes - quit trolling.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Witness To Shooting Captures Suspect At Scene

A witness to a shooting in Skyway captured a suspect, handcuffed him and made him sit on the ground until deputies arrived on Saturday night, Eyewitness News reported.

The King County Sheriff's Office said there was an argument between two men over a drug deal. Both were carrying guns. "One guy was apparently quicker on the draw because the other guy got shot," said Sgt. John Urquhart of the Sheriff's Office. The shooting was in the parking lot of a U.S. Bank.

Urquhart said it was witnessed by a man who was there to use the ATM. He, too, had a gun -- and a pair of handcuffs. "When we got here, the shooter was searched, in handcuffs and sitting down on the curb..."
Full story: http://www.kirotv.com/news/28792794/detail.html


Why did you post this?


To show that an armed citizen stopped a violent crime - what's YOUR point?


Are you paid for it?

Mike, give him the chance to answer by himself, with his own tongue (or fingers, as it's the internet) ...

Or do you think he cannot ...? Answer, I mean .... ? :o

:P

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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Are you paid for it?



Nope, I'm not - and neither were the people that defended themselves against criminals.

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Mike, give him the chance to answer by himself, with his own tongue (or fingers, as it's the internet) ...



Here's a quote for you: "On this website, I put my nose into what I want"

Quote

Or do you think he cannot ...? Answer, I mean .... ? :o

:P



Since you've given no sort of argument, just *what* is he supposed to be answering?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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News:

Witness To Shooting Captures Suspect At Scene

A witness to a shooting in Skyway captured a suspect, handcuffed him and made him sit on the ground until deputies arrived on Saturday night, Eyewitness News reported.

The King County Sheriff's Office said there was an argument between two men over a drug deal. Both were carrying guns. "One guy was apparently quicker on the draw because the other guy got shot," said Sgt. John Urquhart of the Sheriff's Office. The shooting was in the parking lot of a U.S. Bank.

Urquhart said it was witnessed by a man who was there to use the ATM. He, too, had a gun -- and a pair of handcuffs. "When we got here, the shooter was searched, in handcuffs and sitting down on the curb..."
Full story: http://www.kirotv.com/news/28792794/detail.html


Why did you post this?


To show that an armed citizen stopped a violent crime - what's YOUR point?


Are you paid for it?


Are you?

Quote

Mike, give him the chance to answer by himself, with his own tongue (or fingers, as it's the internet) ...



Here's a quote for you: "On this website, I put my nose where I want"

Quote

Or do you think he cannot ...? Answer, I mean .... ? :o

:P



Since you've given no sort of argument, just *what* is he supposed to be answering?


Your master Rich offered a pile of *nothing*. Nothing substiantial. A pile of crap. Not easy to reply to that crap. Anyhow, I tried my best. :)

And I still stick my nose ..... I want; you should know that, you're a guest in Europe, Mikey. Free speech etc. .....

Why do you have to answer for him, tell me?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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Your master Rich offered a pile of *nothing*. Nothing substiantial. A pile of crap. Not easy to reply to that crap. Anyhow, I tried my best. :)



1. He's not "my master".
2. He's provided substantially more to the conversation than YOU have.
3. Just because you THINK it's crap doesn't make it crap.

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Why do you have to answer for him, tell me?



Because I can stick my nose where I want - just like you.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Your master Rich offered a pile of *nothing*. Nothing substiantial. A pile of crap. Not easy to reply to that crap. Anyhow, I tried my best. :)



1. He's not "my master".
2. He's provided substantially more to the conversation than YOU have.
3. Just because you THINK it's crap doesn't make it crap.

Quote

Why do you have to answer for him, tell me?



Because I can stick my nose where I want - just like you.


Mike, you'll be my guest - whenever they let you go, come to Germany - it's only one cat jump (at least w/o Mr. Big).

:)

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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