Budget cuts visualized

[winsor 192]

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http://www.youtube.com/user/10000Pennies#p/u/9/cWt8hTayupE

This is bad

Best visual demonstration of the mess I have seen

Thanks

Indeed. Shows very nicely that all the right wingers' insistence on balancing the budget by cutting foreign aid, "welfare", education spending, etc., will have almost no effect.

The big three are Medicare, SocSec, and defense. All else is peanuts by comparison.

Of course, we could always raise revenues by taxing ourselves appropriately.

"Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." P. J. O'Rourke

The suggestion that you can tax the populus faster than Government can squander cash is as flawed as the idea that you can give a gambler enough cash to stay out of trouble when they are at the high-stakes table with unlimited markers.

We have been spending money that we did not have for well over four decades, and there is no way we can correct our cumulative debt by levying sufficient taxes.

There have been a number of societies that have found themselves faced with an economic plight similar to ours, and the outcome has been universally consistent. We are working on the assumption that "this time it's different," another way of saying that we are truly and completely hosed.

I wish I was wrong, but I'm not.


BSBD,

Winsor

[turtlespeed 212]

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[
There have been a number of societies that have found themselves faced with an economic plight similar to ours, and the outcome has been universally consistent. We are working on the assumption that "this time it's different," another way of saying that we are truly and completely hosed.

I wish I was wrong, but I'm not.


BSBD,

Winsor

You are correct sir.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,181]

He's probably not the best source out there.I'm not real big on automatic source-denigrating, but when someone seems as problematic and transparent as that, I'll wait for someone respectable to opine.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

Good spin

truth is different

And of course
GE likes the out look

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Oh

And this will help too

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Testifying today before the House Budget Committee, Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Director Doug Elmendorf confirmed that Obamacare is expected to reduce the number of jobs in the labor market by an estimated 800,000.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[winsor 192]

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He's probably not the best source out there.I'm not real big on automatic source-denigrating, but when someone seems as problematic and transparent as that, I'll wait for someone respectable to opine.

Wendy P.

How about a less respectable source?

[wmw999 2,181]

I thought that was a reasonably good documentary. Production values are a little weak but the content appears to be there

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

Source? I'd like to read more.

Thanks.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

I found the story on NewsMax
Here is a google search

News search

http://www.google.com/search?q=Testifying+today+before+the+House+Budget+Committee,+Congressional+Budget+Office+(CBO)+Director+Doug+Elmendorf+confirmed+that+Obamacare+is+expected+to+reduce+the+number+of+jobs+in+the+labor+market+by+an+estimated+800,000.&hl=en&prmd=ivnsuo&source=lnms&tbs=nws:1&ei=_UhVTZCbItOatweGh83LDA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=4&ved=0CBIQ_AUoAw


Web search

http://www.google.com/search?q=Testifying%20today%20before%20the%20House%20Budget%20Committee%2C%20Congressional%20Budget%20Office%20(CBO)%20Director%20Doug%20Elmendorf%20confirmed%20that%20Obamacare%20is%20expected%20to%20reduce%20the%20number%20of%20jobs%20in%20the%20labor%20market%20by%20an%20estimated%20800%2C000.&hl=en&prmd=ivnsuo&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nw

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,181]

My understanding (from a cousin in the industry) is that any sort of regularization, including simply common insurance codes and forms (much touted by some) will reduce employment, because all those billing and insurance clerks with special knowledge of one insurance company will no longer be needed.

Frankly, I think that reducing an effectively non-value-add industry, while painful in the short run (especially if you're one of those insurance clerks or insurance company employees), will benefit us in the long run.

If we were all in good health a lot of health-care workers would lose their jobs, too -- how many of us think that would be OK in the long run?

Remember, anything that increases efficiency will allow fewer people to do the same job; on the one side, that's called savings, on the other, it's called job loss.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,683]

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OK. Here we go.

I like flat taxes. It means everybody pays. People who benefit more from a free economy pay more. People who benefit (make) less, pay less. But everybody is vested in the government and have an interest in it working and even paying attention to what it does. If you don't pay taxes, you are influenced to vote for whoever gives you money. This is bad.

Now, I also see that a flat tax coupled with elimination of all the tax exemptions would do something else. It would eliminate the need for the IRS. How much does that save us? Did you say Billions? With a B? And all those accountants and tax lawyers have to find more productive work? What does that do for our economy?

How about eliminating tax deductions? You mean the governmet isn't going to use the tax code to tell us how to live our lives? But I like deducting my mortgage interest. Isn't home ownership good? Yes, but you don't get a deduction for home ownership. If you own your home, you get nothing. You get a deduction for home owership...huh? That's right. You pay less taxes because you are sending profit to the mortgage company. The federal gives up revenue in favor of your mortgage company. That means we have been subsidizing all those corporations that just tanked our economy. And then we bailed them out. Good plan, guys. Good plan.

What about the deduction for having lots of kids? Really? We want to encourage people to have more kids when we have special departments in the UN trying to figure out what to do about over-population? When we have kids in foster care and orphanages that need parents? We're going to reward you for procreation? Was this really necessary?

I know it would take a phased plan to go from our current tax system to something understandable like "Send in 10%. Keep the rest." But it has many, many merits.

OK, so you support tax increases.

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Oh yeah...while we're getting rid of the IRS, why do we need a federal department of education to take our money and only give it back if we promise to train our kids the way they think we should? The Department of Energy was created to get us independent of foreign oil. Good job, guys. National Endowment for the Arts? If people want those arts, they'll support them. If they do not, why is the government taking our money and giving it to them?

Let's face it. There are lots of cuts just begging to be made.

Without cutting Soc.Sec, Medicare and defense you are just fiddling around the edges and can't solve the problem.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,683]

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Not sure I understand your algorithm. Can you express it as a formula or table, or give an example or three?

No I really don't want to take the time. So lets just use round numbers:

Say a family of 4:
Poverty level is 22500 for a family of 4 multiply by say 1.33 that is really close to 30K. 30500 is the ist level where taxes are paid, everyone below is exempt from federal income tax ONLY. When we get to 300% of the poverty level, the full 35% is owed - no questions easy math.

That continues until the maximum is reached.

In this case 10 mil - A guy that make 28,571,428 or above would pay 10 mil in personal federal income tax.

So the overall tax rate goes DOWN for people making over $29Million. Nice.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,683]

Here's some nice waste for you.
www.youtube.com/user/fiercefreeleancer

Of course, it benefits the people you admire.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DanG 1]

Okay, thanks for the link. I was worried it wouldn't be so easy to find.

I agree with Wendy that if the jobs lost are in the medical coding and billing field, then getting rid of those is a good thing. I'm trying to get reimbursed by my insurance company now for an out of pocket expense, but they won't pay because my doctor didn't put down the right five digit code on the diagnosis form. No one disputes that it was a covered expense, but the billing people won't process it. There is such a huge layer on unnecessary jobs in medical billing right now the efficiency has got to be terrible.

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 212]

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Not sure I understand your algorithm. Can you express it as a formula or table, or give an example or three?

No I really don't want to take the time. So lets just use round numbers:

Say a family of 4:
Poverty level is 22500 for a family of 4 multiply by say 1.33 that is really close to 30K. 30500 is the ist level where taxes are paid, everyone below is exempt from federal income tax ONLY. When we get to 300% of the poverty level, the full 35% is owed - no questions easy math.

That continues until the maximum is reached.

In this case 10 mil - A guy that make 28,571,428 or above would pay 10 mil in personal federal income tax.

So the overall tax rate goes DOWN for people making over $29Million. Nice.

You didn't answer the question I originally asked -

How much would your taxes increase?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,683]

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Not sure I understand your algorithm. Can you express it as a formula or table, or give an example or three?

No I really don't want to take the time. So lets just use round numbers:

Say a family of 4:
Poverty level is 22500 for a family of 4 multiply by say 1.33 that is really close to 30K. 30500 is the ist level where taxes are paid, everyone below is exempt from federal income tax ONLY. When we get to 300% of the poverty level, the full 35% is owed - no questions easy math.

That continues until the maximum is reached.

In this case 10 mil - A guy that make 28,571,428 or above would pay 10 mil in personal federal income tax.

So the overall tax rate goes DOWN for people making over $29Million. Nice.

You didn't answer the question I originally asked -

How much would your taxes increase?

Beats me. I haven't yet worked out what they are under the current rules for 2010.

Still fascinating that you'd like the overall rate to decline the more you make over $29M.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

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Not sure I understand your algorithm. Can you express it as a formula or table, or give an example or three?

No I really don't want to take the time. So lets just use round numbers:

Say a family of 4:
Poverty level is 22500 for a family of 4 multiply by say 1.33 that is really close to 30K. 30500 is the ist level where taxes are paid, everyone below is exempt from federal income tax ONLY. When we get to 300% of the poverty level, the full 35% is owed - no questions easy math.

That continues until the maximum is reached.

In this case 10 mil - A guy that make 28,571,428 or above would pay 10 mil in personal federal income tax.

So the overall tax rate goes DOWN for people making over $29Million. Nice.

You didn't answer the question I originally asked -

How much would your taxes increase?

Beats me. I haven't yet worked out what they are under the current rules for 2010.

Still fascinating that you'd like the overall rate to decline the more you make over $29M.

You wanted fair. How many people in the US personally make more than 29m/yr?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[winsor 192]

You wanted fair. How many people in the US personally make more than 29m/yr?

[kallend 1,683]

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Okay, thanks for the link. I was worried it wouldn't be so easy to find.

I agree with Wendy that if the jobs lost are in the medical coding and billing field, then getting rid of those is a good thing. I'm trying to get reimbursed by my insurance company now for an out of pocket expense, but they won't pay because my doctor didn't put down the right five digit code on the diagnosis form. No one disputes that it was a covered expense, but the billing people won't process it. There is such a huge layer on unnecessary jobs in medical billing right now the efficiency has got to be terrible.

It's 0.5% over 10 years, or 0.05% per year. Marc makes it sound like a calamity. It's hardly different than the normal month-to-month fluctuation.

Of course, marc also believes that cutting 10% off discretionary spending will balance the budget.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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Here's some nice waste for you.
www.youtube.com/user/fiercefreeleancer

Of course, it benefits the people you admire.

I admire?

You are delusional teach

Of course the real criminal here is the FDIC for selling us out


Where is the oversite?

Who is watching the FDIC?

Who or why are they allowed to make deals like those in the vid?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[MBiegs 0]

I think EVERYONE is missing the big picture here... why are his chairs are upside down on his table... like he's closing up shop for the day... Who does that?

[turtlespeed 212]

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I think EVERYONE is missing the big picture here... why are his chairs are upside down on his table... like he's closing up shop for the day... Who does that?

People that go out of buisness because of theft, dishonesty, illegalities, and the economy.

Next question?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,683]

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I think EVERYONE is missing the big picture here... why are his chairs are upside down on his table... like he's closing up shop for the day... Who does that?

People that go out of buisness because of theft, dishonesty, illegalities, and the economy.

Next question?

But AIG and Goldman Sachs, and their ilk didn't go out of business, despite their theft, dishonesty, illegalities.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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I think EVERYONE is missing the big picture here... why are his chairs are upside down on his table... like he's closing up shop for the day... Who does that?

People that go out of buisness because of theft, dishonesty, illegalities, and the economy.

Next question?

But AIG and Goldman Sachs, and their ilk didn't go out of business, despite their theft, dishonesty, illegalities.

That is what happens when a gov sends them free porkulas money

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Geithner Admits: Obligations in President's Budget "Unsustainable"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdcQGJF_jmY

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln