GeorgiaDon 340 #126 December 16, 2010 QuoteThe one thing a consumption tax would do it get everyone in the game Today, those who pay no taxed voted to keep the status quo Dems provide bills to keep them voting for them If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials (not specifically replying to rushmc, more to everyone in favor of consumption taxes replacing the current income tax system): Everyone currently pays state and local sales tax, a form of consumption tax, on pretty much everything except food. While I do agree that everyone should pay in something to support services we all benefit from (public safety, roads, education, etc), wouldn't a "consumption tax" just be a federal sales tax? If state sales taxes don't get people "in the game" and "voting to take power away from the money power hungry bastards...", will another sales tax really have that effect? Also, what rate would this "consumption tax" have to be to replace the federal income tax? Even assuming a 1/3 reduction in the federal budget (as if that'll ever happen!), I'm guessing we're talking about a minimum 25% or more, on top of existing state and local sales taxes (for a total of, say 33% or 1/3 of the retail cost). People respond to immediate stimuli; even if they "know" that their overall tax burden is lower, adding 33% will create enough "sticker shock" to discourage purchasing, especially of bigger ticket items. For really big ticket items such as houses, the sales tax will end up as part of the loan, unless people have 33% of the cost of the purchase saved up in addition to a down payment, as they have to pay the tax up front. If you have to borrow to cover the tax, you will easily end up with a mortgage that is more than the house is worth, and lenders won't give you the loan. If you are somehow able to get the loan, interest on the money borrowed to cover the tax will go to the bank, not the government, funneling yet more of our income to banks. If the lender won't make loans to cover taxes, people will have to have on the order of $75,000-100,000 cash on hand to be able to purchase even a modest home in most markets. If real estate is excluded from the "consumption tax", taxes will have to be correspondingly higher on everything else. And, of course, any "consumption tax" is going to have to be highly regressive. There is just no way that Warren Buffet, as an example, consumes 100,000 times as much as Joe Sixpack, despite making 100,000-fold (or more) the income. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #127 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe one thing a consumption tax would do it get everyone in the game Today, those who pay no taxed voted to keep the status quo Dems provide bills to keep them voting for them If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials (not specifically replying to rushmc, more to everyone in favor of consumption taxes replacing the current income tax system): Everyone currently pays state and local sales tax, a form of consumption tax, on pretty much everything except food. While I do agree that everyone should pay in something to support services we all benefit from (public safety, roads, education, etc), wouldn't a "consumption tax" just be a federal sales tax? If state sales taxes don't get people "in the game" and "voting to take power away from the money power hungry bastards...", will another sales tax really have that effect? Also, what rate would this "consumption tax" have to be to replace the federal income tax? Even assuming a 1/3 reduction in the federal budget (as if that'll ever happen!), I'm guessing we're talking about a minimum 25% or more, on top of existing state and local sales taxes (for a total of, say 33% or 1/3 of the retail cost). People respond to immediate stimuli; even if they "know" that their overall tax burden is lower, adding 33% will create enough "sticker shock" to discourage purchasing, especially of bigger ticket items. For really big ticket items such as houses, the sales tax will end up as part of the loan, unless people have 33% of the cost of the purchase saved up in addition to a down payment, as they have to pay the tax up front. If you have to borrow to cover the tax, you will easily end up with a mortgage that is more than the house is worth, and lenders won't give you the loan. If you are somehow able to get the loan, interest on the money borrowed to cover the tax will go to the bank, not the government, funneling yet more of our income to banks. If the lender won't make loans to cover taxes, people will have to have on the order of $75,000-100,000 cash on hand to be able to purchase even a modest home in most markets. If real estate is excluded from the "consumption tax", taxes will have to be correspondingly higher on everything else. And, of course, any "consumption tax" is going to have to be highly regressive. There is just no way that Warren Buffet, as an example, consumes 100,000 times as much as Joe Sixpack, despite making 100,000-fold (or more) the income. Don A consumption tax is not my first choice however, I see it as an oportunity and not as something that is reqressive. Exempt food, housing and medical expenses and tax the rest. Everyone pays, everyone has skin in the game, everyone votes to keep government small and effiecent. Everyone wins, except the politions and that my friend is why we will never see anything like a fair or consumption tax"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #128 December 16, 2010 Quote The only "fair" tax is really a flat rate tax that starts somewhere after a standard deduction for necessities has been reached. The rate of tax would be determined by the budget. (God, I know I am gonna regret this.....) I absolutely love this concept as a concept. Everybody pays something, the rate is flat, but because of the up front exemption, the true tax rate is still a progressive rate in practice. But the problem still comes in the numbers because what will happen is that "cut off" number will be set to exempt half the population from paying any tax at all. So - anyone making less than 100K pays nothing. everyone dollar over that pays 90%. As soon as everyone decides it's easier to just make $99,999.99, then the limit is lowered or wealth is then taxed to cover the budget again. (Just throwing out extreme examples to make the point here - ) So it's just like what we have now, only cheaper to implement because the tax code is much simpler. And that code is where the pols REALLY buy your votes - so they'd fight this concept tooth and nail. An improvement, but just in terms of it being more transparent. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #129 December 16, 2010 QuoteLife isn't fair. While all men are created equal QuoteAll I have figured out from your post is that you like to hear yourself talk Ok I’ll put it in a much more simple way. YOUR wrong. All men are not created equal, in this country they are guaranteed equal rights. Not the same thing Is that short enough for you.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #130 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteDid you actually have an original thought in there? I thought "Salivary" was pretty unique Yet another one word spelling error response from you. Hope it made you feel smart.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #131 December 16, 2010 QuoteA consumption tax is not my first choice however, I see it as an oportunity and not as something that is reqressive. Exempt food, housing and medical expenses and tax the rest. Everyone pays, everyone has skin in the game, everyone votes to keep government small and effiecent. Everyone wins, except the politions and that my friend is why we will never see anything like a fair or consumption tax the more I think about human psychology, and taxes - the more I like this concept over everything other option. But it would have to come with a requirement that government has to operate within the bounds of the money collected the previous year. No borrowing or changing the rules as you go. Government would have to encourage people becoming affluent enough to increase consumption as a general rule in order to have income to spend (ie. buy votes). But - if they could balance a budget like that int he first place, we wouldn't have to resort to smart taxing concepts. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #132 December 16, 2010 QuoteYet another one word spelling error response from you. Hope it made you feel smart. sorry D - does your butt hurt? If so, you might try relaxing a bit, you've been an angry poster lately. It was pretty unique - you have to admit it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #133 December 16, 2010 QuoteAs usual, you are.Quote And as usual, you make an attack instead of a point. QuoteHis position (and mine) is that ALL billiionaires should pay more, not just him. Let's see him walk the walk instead of talking the talk - the address is above for him to send his voluntary donation to fed.gov.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #134 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteFunny - isn't that what you've been doing the last several posts? No, I am now just stooping to your level since it is all you seem to be able to do. Likewise - make stupid examples, get stupid responses. QuoteQuote 1. It would be handled at the state level, just like welfare is now. No, because the consumption tax would be FEDERAL revenues, not STATE. Strike one!!! Handled through STATE offices. Base hit. QuoteQuote2. IRS and welfare offices would go bye-bye, hence a REDUCTION in the program size, not an increase No since the FED GOVT would be sending mthly checks. So size would INCREASE. Strike two!!!! Nope - STATE offices. Base hit, runners on first and second. QuoteQuote3. Since necessities would not be subject to the tax, the prebate/rebate could be handled with the same sort of simple coupons/cards as used for food stamps. you have not even read the proposal. If necessities were not taxed you would not need the prebate. Really, read the things you seem to claim to back. Strike three!!!! and you are gone!!!! Prebates/rebates could be used on other things, like your luxury candy bar, even if the necessities weren't taxed. Really - spend some thought on the possibilities rather than how unfair it is that the rich guy and poor guy both pay a buck for a candy bar. Base hit, bases loaded. QuoteQuoteYou may now return to your pertinent "data" of unfair candy bar taxes. Yes, since you were unable to discuss them, you are free to continue to ignore them. I've countered every "idea" you've been able to come up with. Grand Slam! Thanks for playing, b'bye now!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #135 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteDid you actually have an original thought in there? I thought "Salivary" was pretty unique Yet another one word spelling error response from you. Hope it made you feel smart. hey, at least he didn't misspell "you're." That may be the shortest sentence possible to have the irony of calling someone else wrong and making a pretty bad error in the process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #136 December 16, 2010 I think your post to me seems reasonable, and maybe why the tax code is so complicated. I’ve been sitting here reading every thing you said and cant help nodding in agreement. I know from personal experience how hard it is to start, run, and have a successful business. Your rant just makes me even more confused. I see your point you bust your ass why shouldn’t you get the benefits for it? I agree At the same time being an immigrant I appreciate the standard of life we have here, and all the opportunity. A big part of me thinks all the stuff that makes it easier to succeed here is paid for by taxes. In a way I look at paying my taxes as doing my part in helping out our society. I used the benefits the great roads, Schools, student loans, and Jobs ( with the exception of AmEx every job I have ever had has been for a small business.) I think you make more you should pay more, but I cant give you a logical answer as to why I think that’s right. I think people are frustrated at how the money that they already have is being spent by the goverment. At the same time the rules do not apply to the ultera rich. If you or me fuck up our business we lose every thing, They get bail outs. I don't have a point other then that i can see both sides of the argument.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #137 December 16, 2010 Quote sorry D - does your butt hurt? No my cock does however! can you check it for me? Quote It was pretty unique - you have to admit it I wish it was but it’s not. I make spelling mistakes all the time and its always the dudes I disagree with who seem to point that out as if that has something to do with the topic at all, or that within the context writen they could not figure out what I was trying to say. Just gets old thats all. Peace and love and hugs to all. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildcard451 0 #138 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteLife isn't fair. While all men are created equal QuoteAll I have figured out from your post is that you like to hear yourself talk Ok I’ll put it in a much more simple way. YOUR wrong. All men are not created equal, in this country they are guaranteed equal rights. Not the same thing Is that short enough for you. You make this too easy. Man fucks woman, woman gets pregnant, woman delivers baby. At that moment, we are all created the same, rich kid or poor kid, black, white, brown, or yellow - the opportunities presented and upbringing are going to be quite different between the projects, middle class america, or the extremely wealthy from that moment on. You're atrocious spelling aside, please go gain some reading comprehension skills prior to playing with the big kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #139 December 16, 2010 Quote You're atrocious spelling aside, please go gain some reading comprehension skills prior to playing with the big kids. The big kids, How so BIG KID? HAHAHAHA I think I scored very well on my reading comprehension skills. Quote Man fucks woman, woman gets pregnant, woman delivers baby. At that moment, we are all created the same Actually if you knew anything about genetics you would know that’s a bullshit statement. Aren't you in the medical field? I figured you would already know that. We can do this all day little girl...... oh wait you are the big boy. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #140 December 16, 2010 Quote Just gets old thats all. I know - you do ok, it's just the same ones over and over and by now, most suspect you'd have it figured out by now your, you're brake, break if you kick these, you won't get gigged hardly ever. People can poke at you for the predictable and overused content rather than the delivery... slavery, salivary - is unique and nicely done. good luck here's a smiley for you ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #141 December 16, 2010 You know what happens. I start writing I always write in MS word first so I can do a proper spell check. What happens is I right(thats intentional get it write) a word that’s an actual word that looks like the word I meant to use. So the spell check doesn't pick it up and my dumb ass doesn’t pick it up either. I was being honest about the reading comprehension part. Always did horrible in spelling but did great with comprehension. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #142 December 16, 2010 QuoteAnd, of course, any "consumption tax" is going to have to be highly regressive. There is just no way that Warren Buffet, as an example, consumes 100,000 times as much as Joe Sixpack, despite making 100,000-fold (or more) the income. Don I must have missed where Warren "I pay less tax than my receptionist" Buffet is paying 100000 times the tax that Joe Sixpack is - can you point it out for me?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #143 December 16, 2010 Quote I think your post to me seems reasonable, and maybe why the tax code is so complicated. I’ve been sitting here reading every thing you said and cant help nodding in agreement. I know from personal experience how hard it is to start, run, and have a successful business. Your rant just makes me even more confused. I see your point you bust your ass why shouldn’t you get the benefits for it? I agree At the same time being an immigrant I appreciate the standard of life we have here, and all the opportunity. A big part of me thinks all the stuff that makes it easier to succeed here is paid for by taxes. In a way I look at paying my taxes as doing my part in helping out our society. I used the benefits the great roads, Schools, student loans, and Jobs ( with the exception of AmEx every job I have ever had has been for a small business.) I think you make more you should pay more, but I cant give you a logical answer as to why I think that’s right. I think people are frustrated at how the money that they already have is being spent by the goverment. At the same time the rules do not apply to the ultera rich. If you or me fuck up our business we lose every thing, They get bail outs. I don't have a point other then that i can see both sides of the argument. Most here do not think that no taxes should be paid. I am willing to pay for the necessary services. Unfortunately that list of services keeps growing along with the people needed to administer said programs. I guess the debate is how much is enough and what programs really should be under the purview of the Fed gov."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #144 December 16, 2010 Mirage - found some 2008 stats. For all filers with taxable income, 2008: 200k and up - 4% of returns, 36% of taxable income, and 49% of income tax. 500k and up - 0.8% of returns, 22% of taxable income, and 32% of income tax.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #145 December 16, 2010 Quote I must have missed where Warren "I pay less tax than my receptionist" Buffet is paying 100000 times the tax that Joe Sixpack is - can you point it out for me? Well, if Joe Sixpack is like 47% of American taxpayers and pays no federal tax at all, Mr Buffet could easily be paying infinitely times the tax Joe Sixpack does, as would his receptionist as long as she paid any federal tax at all. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #146 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuote I must have missed where Warren "I pay less tax than my receptionist" Buffet is paying 100000 times the tax that Joe Sixpack is - can you point it out for me? Well, if Joe Sixpack is like 47% of American taxpayers and pays no federal tax at all, Mr Buffet could easily be paying infinitely times the tax Joe Sixpack does, as would his receptionist as long as she paid any federal tax at all. Don So your screed about 100 times the consumption to be 'fair' was an empty argument? I agree. With a consumption tax, Buffett would have paid 8.5 BILLION dollars in taxes for the 34 billion aquisition of the BNSF this year - I'm pretty sure that would have put him above what his secretary paid in taxes, unlike the current setup.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #147 December 16, 2010 Quote I start writing I always write in MS word first so I can do a proper spell check. don't make it so hard on yourself. Just switch to Firefox, and every word it doesn't recognize gets underlined in red instantly. It won't fix the misused words, but it gets you much closer. Saves the cut n paste step too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #148 December 16, 2010 Quote You're atrocious spelling aside, please go gain some reading comprehension skills prior to playing with the big kids. [facepalm] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #149 December 16, 2010 QuoteSo your screed about 100 times the consumption to be 'fair' was an empty argument? I agree.Not sure where you're getting this from, Mike. QuoteWith a consumption tax, Buffett would have paid 8.5 BILLION dollars in taxes for the 34 billion aquisition of the BNSF this year - I'm pretty sure that would have put him above what his secretary paid in taxes, unlike the current setup. You must have a different understanding of "consumption tax" than I do, if you believe the acquisition of BNSF would be taxed as "consumption". Anyway, this just reinforces my point that such a tax would have a chilling effect on the economy. I'd think anyone would be dissuaded from such an acquisition if it meant having to pay so much tax up front, and if you did buy such a company the profit or value would have to go up 25% before you could sell it and not take a loss. It seems better to pay tax on the profit (capitol gains) after you sell, as at least you should have the money in hand to cover the tax. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #150 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo your screed about 100 times the consumption to be 'fair' was an empty argument? I agree.Not sure where you're getting this from, Mike. Because you're saying for it to be equivalent, Buffet would have to consume 100k times than Joe Sixpack, since he makes 100k times more than Joe Sixpack - it's a fallacious argument, as making the comparison to taxes paid shows. QuoteWith a consumption tax, Buffett would have paid 8.5 BILLION dollars in taxes for the 34 billion aquisition of the BNSF this year - I'm pretty sure that would have put him above what his secretary paid in taxes, unlike the current setup. You must have a different understanding of "consumption tax" than I do, if you believe the acquisition of BNSF would be taxed as "consumption". Anyway, this just reinforces my point that such a tax would have a chilling effect on the economy. I'd think anyone would be dissuaded from such an acquisition if it meant having to pay so much tax up front, and if you did buy such a company the profit or value would have to go up 25% before you could sell it and not take a loss. It seems better to pay tax on the profit (capitol gains) after you sell, as at least you should have the money in hand to cover the tax. Don Why would it have a chilling effect, if you get to keep all your earnings when you sell? If this is such a chilling effect, then WHY advocate raising capital gains and income taxes on those same people??Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 6 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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mnealtx 0 #134 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteFunny - isn't that what you've been doing the last several posts? No, I am now just stooping to your level since it is all you seem to be able to do. Likewise - make stupid examples, get stupid responses. QuoteQuote 1. It would be handled at the state level, just like welfare is now. No, because the consumption tax would be FEDERAL revenues, not STATE. Strike one!!! Handled through STATE offices. Base hit. QuoteQuote2. IRS and welfare offices would go bye-bye, hence a REDUCTION in the program size, not an increase No since the FED GOVT would be sending mthly checks. So size would INCREASE. Strike two!!!! Nope - STATE offices. Base hit, runners on first and second. QuoteQuote3. Since necessities would not be subject to the tax, the prebate/rebate could be handled with the same sort of simple coupons/cards as used for food stamps. you have not even read the proposal. If necessities were not taxed you would not need the prebate. Really, read the things you seem to claim to back. Strike three!!!! and you are gone!!!! Prebates/rebates could be used on other things, like your luxury candy bar, even if the necessities weren't taxed. Really - spend some thought on the possibilities rather than how unfair it is that the rich guy and poor guy both pay a buck for a candy bar. Base hit, bases loaded. QuoteQuoteYou may now return to your pertinent "data" of unfair candy bar taxes. Yes, since you were unable to discuss them, you are free to continue to ignore them. I've countered every "idea" you've been able to come up with. Grand Slam! Thanks for playing, b'bye now!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #135 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteDid you actually have an original thought in there? I thought "Salivary" was pretty unique Yet another one word spelling error response from you. Hope it made you feel smart. hey, at least he didn't misspell "you're." That may be the shortest sentence possible to have the irony of calling someone else wrong and making a pretty bad error in the process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #136 December 16, 2010 I think your post to me seems reasonable, and maybe why the tax code is so complicated. I’ve been sitting here reading every thing you said and cant help nodding in agreement. I know from personal experience how hard it is to start, run, and have a successful business. Your rant just makes me even more confused. I see your point you bust your ass why shouldn’t you get the benefits for it? I agree At the same time being an immigrant I appreciate the standard of life we have here, and all the opportunity. A big part of me thinks all the stuff that makes it easier to succeed here is paid for by taxes. In a way I look at paying my taxes as doing my part in helping out our society. I used the benefits the great roads, Schools, student loans, and Jobs ( with the exception of AmEx every job I have ever had has been for a small business.) I think you make more you should pay more, but I cant give you a logical answer as to why I think that’s right. I think people are frustrated at how the money that they already have is being spent by the goverment. At the same time the rules do not apply to the ultera rich. If you or me fuck up our business we lose every thing, They get bail outs. I don't have a point other then that i can see both sides of the argument.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #137 December 16, 2010 Quote sorry D - does your butt hurt? No my cock does however! can you check it for me? Quote It was pretty unique - you have to admit it I wish it was but it’s not. I make spelling mistakes all the time and its always the dudes I disagree with who seem to point that out as if that has something to do with the topic at all, or that within the context writen they could not figure out what I was trying to say. Just gets old thats all. Peace and love and hugs to all. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #138 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteLife isn't fair. While all men are created equal QuoteAll I have figured out from your post is that you like to hear yourself talk Ok I’ll put it in a much more simple way. YOUR wrong. All men are not created equal, in this country they are guaranteed equal rights. Not the same thing Is that short enough for you. You make this too easy. Man fucks woman, woman gets pregnant, woman delivers baby. At that moment, we are all created the same, rich kid or poor kid, black, white, brown, or yellow - the opportunities presented and upbringing are going to be quite different between the projects, middle class america, or the extremely wealthy from that moment on. You're atrocious spelling aside, please go gain some reading comprehension skills prior to playing with the big kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #139 December 16, 2010 Quote You're atrocious spelling aside, please go gain some reading comprehension skills prior to playing with the big kids. The big kids, How so BIG KID? HAHAHAHA I think I scored very well on my reading comprehension skills. Quote Man fucks woman, woman gets pregnant, woman delivers baby. At that moment, we are all created the same Actually if you knew anything about genetics you would know that’s a bullshit statement. Aren't you in the medical field? I figured you would already know that. We can do this all day little girl...... oh wait you are the big boy. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #140 December 16, 2010 Quote Just gets old thats all. I know - you do ok, it's just the same ones over and over and by now, most suspect you'd have it figured out by now your, you're brake, break if you kick these, you won't get gigged hardly ever. People can poke at you for the predictable and overused content rather than the delivery... slavery, salivary - is unique and nicely done. good luck here's a smiley for you ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #141 December 16, 2010 You know what happens. I start writing I always write in MS word first so I can do a proper spell check. What happens is I right(thats intentional get it write) a word that’s an actual word that looks like the word I meant to use. So the spell check doesn't pick it up and my dumb ass doesn’t pick it up either. I was being honest about the reading comprehension part. Always did horrible in spelling but did great with comprehension. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #142 December 16, 2010 QuoteAnd, of course, any "consumption tax" is going to have to be highly regressive. There is just no way that Warren Buffet, as an example, consumes 100,000 times as much as Joe Sixpack, despite making 100,000-fold (or more) the income. Don I must have missed where Warren "I pay less tax than my receptionist" Buffet is paying 100000 times the tax that Joe Sixpack is - can you point it out for me?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #143 December 16, 2010 Quote I think your post to me seems reasonable, and maybe why the tax code is so complicated. I’ve been sitting here reading every thing you said and cant help nodding in agreement. I know from personal experience how hard it is to start, run, and have a successful business. Your rant just makes me even more confused. I see your point you bust your ass why shouldn’t you get the benefits for it? I agree At the same time being an immigrant I appreciate the standard of life we have here, and all the opportunity. A big part of me thinks all the stuff that makes it easier to succeed here is paid for by taxes. In a way I look at paying my taxes as doing my part in helping out our society. I used the benefits the great roads, Schools, student loans, and Jobs ( with the exception of AmEx every job I have ever had has been for a small business.) I think you make more you should pay more, but I cant give you a logical answer as to why I think that’s right. I think people are frustrated at how the money that they already have is being spent by the goverment. At the same time the rules do not apply to the ultera rich. If you or me fuck up our business we lose every thing, They get bail outs. I don't have a point other then that i can see both sides of the argument. Most here do not think that no taxes should be paid. I am willing to pay for the necessary services. Unfortunately that list of services keeps growing along with the people needed to administer said programs. I guess the debate is how much is enough and what programs really should be under the purview of the Fed gov."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #144 December 16, 2010 Mirage - found some 2008 stats. For all filers with taxable income, 2008: 200k and up - 4% of returns, 36% of taxable income, and 49% of income tax. 500k and up - 0.8% of returns, 22% of taxable income, and 32% of income tax.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #145 December 16, 2010 Quote I must have missed where Warren "I pay less tax than my receptionist" Buffet is paying 100000 times the tax that Joe Sixpack is - can you point it out for me? Well, if Joe Sixpack is like 47% of American taxpayers and pays no federal tax at all, Mr Buffet could easily be paying infinitely times the tax Joe Sixpack does, as would his receptionist as long as she paid any federal tax at all. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #146 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuote I must have missed where Warren "I pay less tax than my receptionist" Buffet is paying 100000 times the tax that Joe Sixpack is - can you point it out for me? Well, if Joe Sixpack is like 47% of American taxpayers and pays no federal tax at all, Mr Buffet could easily be paying infinitely times the tax Joe Sixpack does, as would his receptionist as long as she paid any federal tax at all. Don So your screed about 100 times the consumption to be 'fair' was an empty argument? I agree. With a consumption tax, Buffett would have paid 8.5 BILLION dollars in taxes for the 34 billion aquisition of the BNSF this year - I'm pretty sure that would have put him above what his secretary paid in taxes, unlike the current setup.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #147 December 16, 2010 Quote I start writing I always write in MS word first so I can do a proper spell check. don't make it so hard on yourself. Just switch to Firefox, and every word it doesn't recognize gets underlined in red instantly. It won't fix the misused words, but it gets you much closer. Saves the cut n paste step too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #148 December 16, 2010 Quote You're atrocious spelling aside, please go gain some reading comprehension skills prior to playing with the big kids. [facepalm] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #149 December 16, 2010 QuoteSo your screed about 100 times the consumption to be 'fair' was an empty argument? I agree.Not sure where you're getting this from, Mike. QuoteWith a consumption tax, Buffett would have paid 8.5 BILLION dollars in taxes for the 34 billion aquisition of the BNSF this year - I'm pretty sure that would have put him above what his secretary paid in taxes, unlike the current setup. You must have a different understanding of "consumption tax" than I do, if you believe the acquisition of BNSF would be taxed as "consumption". Anyway, this just reinforces my point that such a tax would have a chilling effect on the economy. I'd think anyone would be dissuaded from such an acquisition if it meant having to pay so much tax up front, and if you did buy such a company the profit or value would have to go up 25% before you could sell it and not take a loss. It seems better to pay tax on the profit (capitol gains) after you sell, as at least you should have the money in hand to cover the tax. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #150 December 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo your screed about 100 times the consumption to be 'fair' was an empty argument? I agree.Not sure where you're getting this from, Mike. Because you're saying for it to be equivalent, Buffet would have to consume 100k times than Joe Sixpack, since he makes 100k times more than Joe Sixpack - it's a fallacious argument, as making the comparison to taxes paid shows. QuoteWith a consumption tax, Buffett would have paid 8.5 BILLION dollars in taxes for the 34 billion aquisition of the BNSF this year - I'm pretty sure that would have put him above what his secretary paid in taxes, unlike the current setup. You must have a different understanding of "consumption tax" than I do, if you believe the acquisition of BNSF would be taxed as "consumption". Anyway, this just reinforces my point that such a tax would have a chilling effect on the economy. I'd think anyone would be dissuaded from such an acquisition if it meant having to pay so much tax up front, and if you did buy such a company the profit or value would have to go up 25% before you could sell it and not take a loss. It seems better to pay tax on the profit (capitol gains) after you sell, as at least you should have the money in hand to cover the tax. Don Why would it have a chilling effect, if you get to keep all your earnings when you sell? If this is such a chilling effect, then WHY advocate raising capital gains and income taxes on those same people??Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
