What's wrong in Education today!!!!

[skyjumpenfool 2]

At a faculty meeting today, teachers were told that we cannot require students to stand for the weekly Pledge of Allegiance. It might be construed by an attorney to be in violation with their "constitutional" rights??????

Today is the first time in almost 20 years of teaching that I'm ashamed of my profession!

What adds insult to injury is that several returning vets of the recent wars were present to here this.

Parents and students be warned... During the weekly Pledge of Allegiance, everyone in my class room will stand. You do not have to Pledge Allegiance, but you will stand to show respect for those who have fought and died for your right not to.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[quade 3]

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Parents and students be warned... During the weekly Pledge of Allegiance, everyone in my class room will stand. You do not have to Pledge Allegiance, but you will stand to show respect for those who have fought and died for your right not to.

If the kids aren't allowed to decide for themselves, then you're not teaching, you're indoctrinating.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,470]

>Today is the first time in almost 20 years of teaching that I'm ashamed
>of my profession!

?? Are you a teacher of an academic subject? If so, I would think you'd take the most pride in how well you educate your students. The other stuff - making them cut their hair, making stand to say the Pledge, making them sit still during talks, having their team beat another school's team, whatever - would seem a lot less important.

[okalb 79]

Remove that stupid "under god" line and I support you. As far as I am concerned as long as that is in the pledge it devalues the whole thing. I am more than happy to pledge my allegiance to the USA and it's flag, but not to some silly mythology.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[futuredivot 0]

I know I've posted this before-but I've never been prouder of my beautiful bride
http://www.wyff4.com/video/23769121/index.html
Citizenship is an important subject.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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At a faculty meeting today, teachers were told that we cannot require students to stand for the weekly Pledge of Allegiance.

Good.

I'd rather students spend their time studying the US Constitution which defines our country instead of chanting about their loyalty to the government which violates it.

[quade 3]

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Citizenship is an important subject.

Yet, I doubt any of those kids understand what they're saying.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjumpenfool 2]

I teach technical education (fancy way of saying shop teacher). But I take pride in the fact that I can shape young kids minds. Hopefully, sometimes even for the better.

What I'm ashamed of is that I'm not being allowed to teach about the cost of freedom or the responsibility of patriotism. In fact, I'm being told to look the other way. Sometimes the lessons we teach the loudest are the ones we fail to teach at all.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[quade 3]

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I teach technical education (fancy way of saying shop teacher).

Groovy. Teach shop and leave the civics lessons where they belong; civics class.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyrider 0]

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Remove that stupid "under god" line and I support you. As far as I am concerned as long as that is in the pledge it devalues the whole thing. I am more than happy to pledge my allegiance to the USA and it's flag, but not to some silly mythology.

Then you simply don't say that part! Is that too hard?

[okalb 79]

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Remove that stupid "under god" line and I support you. As far as I am concerned as long as that is in the pledge it devalues the whole thing. I am more than happy to pledge my allegiance to the USA and it's flag, but not to some silly mythology.

Then you simply don't say that part! Is that too hard?

Agree, but as I said in my mind it devalues the whole thing. It doesn't belong there. It was put in for stupid reasons and has no business being there. Children have enough reason to single out other kids and pick on them. A child refusing to say part of the pledge is just one more thing that the other kids can pick on them for. Not that any of that matters since as Quade already mentioned. Very few kids have any idea what they are saying when they recite the pledge anyway.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[skyrider 0]

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I teach technical education (fancy way of saying shop teacher).

Groovy. Teach shop and leave the civics lessons where they belong; civics class.

Yeah stop this stupid thinking like a proud American, just teach shop and do as your told , like a good Robaot! [/sarcasim]

[billvon 2,470]

>I teach technical education (fancy way of saying shop teacher). But I take
>pride in the fact that I can shape young kids minds. Hopefully, sometimes
>even for the better.

Cool! An important job.

>What I'm ashamed of is that I'm not being allowed to teach about the
>cost of freedom or the responsibility of patriotism.

And if another teacher wanted to teach the virtues of Jihad, and the courage and moral fiber that required - would you be OK with that as well? How about the important social reasons for not interbreeding with other races?

I'm all for educating kids as well as possible. Just leave the nationalistic and religious stuff to their families.

[futuredivot 0]

But they will-gotta start with the building block. Your position is since they can't understand physics, we shouldn't teach addition.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[quade 3]

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But they will-gotta start with the building block. Your position is since they can't understand physics, we shouldn't teach addition.

No. What I'm saying is that reciting the pledge before understanding what the words mean is meaningless. Four and five year olds don't have the vocabulary to even begin to understand it.

What I'm suggesting is that it would be more helpful at that age to teach them what the words mean, than to parrot meaningless words.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[futuredivot 0]

and so they discuss it-and learn. her first graders are doing the same thing this year and the day they tell her she shouldn't promote the USA in her classroom is the day that she leaves.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[quade 3]

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and so they discuss it-and learn. her first graders are doing the same thing this year and the day they tell her she shouldn't promote the USA in her classroom is the day that she leaves.

You're telling me that a four-year-old understands words like allegiance and republic? I seriously doubt most adults understand the word republic.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

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I'm not being allowed to teach about the cost of freedom or the responsibility of patriotism.

Of course you are. But forcing them to stand in mandatory homage to a loyalty oath does neither (especially the former).

[turtlespeed 212]

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. . . than to parrot meaningless words.

I am sorry you find them meaningless.

Most of the country takes pride in it.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

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I'm not being allowed to teach about the cost of freedom or the responsibility of patriotism.

Of course you are. But forcing them to stand in mandatory homage to a loyalty oath does neither (especially the former).

Why is that? It did for me. Did something magically change between now and then? I remember having to write a paper on what the words meant that we were reciting. I remember distinctly the lessons on flag etiquite and the meaning behind the poems and why and what and whom they were written for.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Andy9o8 0]

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I teach technical education

And I'm sure you're quite good at it.
You might want to bone up a bit, however, if you're thinking of moving over to either Social Studies/Civics or English composition.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I'm not being allowed to teach about the cost of freedom or the responsibility of patriotism.

Of course you are. But forcing them to stand in mandatory homage to a loyalty oath does neither (especially the former).

Why is that? It did for me. Did something magically change between now and then? I remember having to write a paper on what the words meant that we were reciting. I remember distinctly the lessons on flag etiquite and the meaning behind the poems and why and what and whom they were written for.

I suppose my point is that the mandatory reciting of a loyalty oath does not teach freedom; to the contrary, it teaches obedience to the ritualistic symbolisms of a political creed. And I think that should be done only very sparingly in public schools.

There are plenty of ways to teach civics beyond mandatory participation in ideology-based rituals.

Having said that, I don't think I'd feel the same if it was in a private or parochial school, where parents (and hopefully students) understand the ground rules from the get-go. i.e., that promoting specialized, often non-academic agendas is part of the school's mission.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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I teach technical education

And I'm sure you're quite good at it.
You might want to bone up a bit, however, if you're thinking of moving over to either Social Studies/Civics or English composition.

No chance! How often do you see me posting in this forum??

But this feels wrong!!! I'm sorry some don't see that.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[ManagingPrime 0]

West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette...check it out.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

I'm told (and I'm checking into it) the state requires us to reciet the Pledge once a week???

As for the meaning of the words, These are High School students. If they don't get it, we have bigger issues. On Wednesday, I'll be playing Red Skeltons version of the Pledge. This is not a new issue.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."