Missouri SWAT team kills pitbull and shoots....a fuckin' Corgi?

[dorbie 0]

Quote

I watched the video, and am stunned by what I saw.

It happens every day in the land of the "free".

[shropshire 0]

Hope they lose their jobs and get their arses sued off - cunts

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

Hope they lose their jobs and get their arses sued off - cunts

Should they have been scarred and bled from dog bites instead?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DJL 232]

Quote

Quote

Hope they lose their jobs and get their arses sued off - cunts

Should they have been scarred and bled from dog bites instead?

There's an area between that.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Quote

Hope they lose their jobs and get their arses sued off - cunts

Should they have been scarred and bled from dog bites instead?

Should thay have invaded the innocent dog owner's home like a militray force, heavily armed and armoured and screaming orders?

[MBiegs 0]

How would you have entered his house?

Knowing that your children, wife, and the rest of your family and friends want you to come home in one piece, would you enter with too few weapons and not enough armor or would you be geared up and prepared for a worse case scenario?

[dorbie 0]

Quote

How would you have entered his house?

Knowing that your children, wife, and the rest of your family and friends want you to come home in one piece, would you enter with too few weapons and not enough armor or would you be geared up and prepared for a worse case scenario?

Where do you draw the line and exercise reasonable force and judgement. I can always take your worst case scenario and make it even worse, what are you going to do? Breech the living-room with a tank? It's an insipid and profoundly gutless philosophy.

Not everyone is steeped in a culture that believes it is a police officer's right to terrorize a family like this while serving relatively petty warrants for non violent offences, simply to cover their own asses.

If you're really so afraid of serving warrants that you have to use tactics that would make Hitler proud then perhaps police work is not for you.

In enforcing the law it helps if the enforcement does not become worse than the crime you're trying to prevent. Sticking a badge on bullshit does not ameliorate the problem.

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

If you're really so afraid of serving warrants that you have to use tactics that would make Hitler proud then perhaps police work is not for you.

. . . and you exhault yourself as an expert on this because of your extensive study and training in law enforcement. I only say this because you seem to be very certain of which methods would be right and which ones are too forceful.

Could you describe in detail your tactical execution plan for us please, OH, and please provide all available intel on the subject, including all priors, known aliases, known weapons, and registered weapons.

Until then, I don't really think you have even a grain of sand to stand on do you? You perhaps would like to study and practice and maybe gain some experience in these matters before you make judements, instaed of knee jerk reactions.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[MBiegs 0]

I think we can all agree that breaching the living room with a tank would/could hurt innocent people, so let’s not be ridiculous and at least try to be constructive here.

It seems like you have two issues here, their use of force (armor and guns), and their choice to shoot the dog, so lets deal with them separately.

If, while legally doing my job, I come across a growling and barking at me I’d choose to eliminate that threat IF, and ONLY IF I feel the dog poses an imminent threat to my safety or someone else’s safety. The things that would be running through my mind might be, is the dog moving and or running towards me, is he showing teeth, is he in an attack/pounce posture? As heartless as it sounds, if I’ve shot the dog, worst case scenario, I’ve shot a good dog and I owe you a new one. Best case, the dog was really going to attack and I've saved a leg, arm, face, or family jewels from being shredded. Either way I’d feel terrible for a long time for having to take ANY animals life; regardless of weather I’m justified, because I know it’s doing only what it’s trained to do.

I can see this has you worked up, but you still have not answered the question of how they SHOULD enter the house. Do you think having extra officers, armor and weapons at the scene was a bad choice? If so, why?

[billvon 2,427]

>Should they have been scarred and bled from dog bites instead?

True! That was a vicious Corgi - someone might have lost a sock.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Hope they lose their jobs and get their arses sued off - cunts

Should they have been scarred and bled from dog bites instead?

Should thay have invaded the innocent dog owner's home like a militray force, heavily armed and armoured and screaming orders?

This sounds more like you haven't seen the armor that some drug dealers are packing. Look at the most recent set of links that I just posted. This guy gave plenty of reasons to think that it wasn't going to be an easy take-down. Still, the police look stupid now because there wasn't jack shit there and they killed a dog in front of a kid. There's egg on their face and they'll very likely change their tactics (according to the follow up reports).

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[NSEMN8R 0]

So you really think they handled this the right way? A tank through the living room is over the line, but kicking in the door with guns blazing is ok?


If they had been watching the guy, they had to know there was a kid in the house. Every one of them should be charged with reckless endagerment at the very least. What they did was completely irresponsible.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Quote

If you're really so afraid of serving warrants that you have to use tactics that would make Hitler proud then perhaps police work is not for you.

. . . and you exhault yourself as an expert on this because of your extensive study and training in law enforcement. I only say this because you seem to be very certain of which methods would be right and which ones are too forceful.

Could you describe in detail your tactical execution plan for us please, OH, and please provide all available intel on the subject, including all priors, known aliases, known weapons, and registered weapons.

Until then, I don't really think you have even a grain of sand to stand on do you? You perhaps would like to study and practice and maybe gain some experience in these matters before you make judements, instaed of knee jerk reactions.

I agree that the gutless trigger happy prick who shot a family Corgi is more qulified than me, as is everyone on that SWAT team.

Their entire world view is antithetical to effective police work in my book, but they are the experts on bullshit.

Your problem is you're immersed in the self-perpetuating nonsense that leads to family pets being executed by paramilitary home invaders. You have no perspective and don't see that the policing has become worse than the crime.

I can see the results of their actions and understand that their mentality and conduct undermines our constitutional protections. If freedom means anything it should mean freedom from armed home invasion for non violent crimes based on nothing but suspicion and the fear of non specific "worst case scenarios" from the officer's involved.

I certainly defer to your expertise in the justification for shooting harmless family pets and terrorizing women and children in the dead of night. It's something any real man sould be ashamed to justify, it's what many GOOD men get into law enforcement to protect us FROM.

[shropshire 0]

The only 'good' thing that I can see coming out of this is that they (Americans) have accepted that if it's O.K for armoured thugs to kick down the doors of innocent Iraqis it's equally O.K for their own doors to be kicked in.... Result.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[tkhayes 140]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv0T2X1dXcI

I remember this one from years back. They pulled over a family because their car looked like on eused in a robbery......pulled the whole family out of the car and cuffed, them, no explanation for what is going on, the family is yelling at them to close the dorr so the dog does not get out on the freeway.

The 'deadly killer' dog jumps out of the car and the cop unloads his shotgun immediately on it.

from here http://www.volunteertv.com/cumberland/headlines/16341331.html the family apparently sued and won something.

Too bad it is civil, not criminal when the cops make a mistake that costs a life......

i bet in this new case the family will nto be able to sue since they were obviously 'drug dealers'

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

>Should they have been scarred and bled from dog bites instead?

True! That was a vicious Corgi - someone might have lost a sock.

If a corgi is trained - they have much the same mouth as a German Shepard.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,427]

>If a corgi is trained - they have much the same mouth as a German
>Shepard.

Exactly. Corgis are the WMD's of the dog world. They are fortunate they did not encounter a Chihuahua, whose mouth bacteria is every bit as deadly as a pitbull's. And with all their prancing and cowering they are much harder to shoot, making them an even more deadly threat to police officers.

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

>If a corgi is trained - they have much the same mouth as a German
>Shepard.

Exactly. Corgis are the WMD's of the dog world. They are fortunate they did not encounter a Chihuahua, whose mouth bacteria is every bit as deadly as a pitbull's. And with all their prancing and cowering they are much harder to shoot, making them an even more deadly threat to police officers.

You are making your usual amount of logical sense again, Good to have you back.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,427]

>You are making your usual amount of logical sense again

Not trying to make any sense at all. A bunch of cops fucked up and killed a Corgi. Trying to defend that by explaining what a threat a Corgi is is ridiculous, and makes about as much sense as shooting a Chihuahua.

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

>You are making your usual amount of logical sense again

Not trying to make any sense at all. A bunch of cops fucked up and killed a Corgi. Trying to defend that by explaining what a threat a Corgi is is ridiculous, and makes about as much sense as shooting a Chihuahua.

How many have you owned? How many have you trained? How many have you kept as watch dogs?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Hope they lose their jobs and get their arses sued off - cunts

Should they have been scarred and bled from dog bites instead?

Should thay have invaded the innocent dog owner's home like a militray force, heavily armed and armoured and screaming orders?

This sounds more like you haven't seen the armor that some drug dealers are packing. Look at the most recent set of links that I just posted. This guy gave plenty of reasons to think that it wasn't going to be an easy take-down. Still, the police look stupid now because there wasn't jack shit there and they killed a dog in front of a kid. There's egg on their face and they'll very likely change their tactics (according to the follow up reports).

You simultaneously want to justify this even as you say they will probably change their tactics over this.

This is NOT unprecedented, it is a standard knockless serving of a drug warrant and they are getting out of hand. It does indeed stem from "worst case scenario" planning but as we've established I think, the line of what the worst case is is somewhat arbitrarily drawn and it has been drawn way too far towards the overwhelming force end of the spectrum for many cases, and drawn there entirely for the safety of the officers.

Boiling this down to it's essence, that mother and child were terrified and the dog shot for the safety of the police officers. You don't get to do that and simultaneously call yourselves "America's Finest" in my book.

Since you like links, here's one:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2581-St-Louis-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m5d8-SWAT-raid-on-Columbia-MO-family-just-one-more-reason-to-end-noknock-raids

[dorbie 0]

Quote

The only 'good' thing that I can see coming out of this is that they (Americans) have accepted that if it's O.K for armoured thugs to kick down the doors of innocent Iraqis it's equally O.K for their own doors to be kicked in.... Result.

War is always going to be 100 times worse than doors getting kicked down and homes invaded.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Boiling this down to it's essence, that mother and child were terrified and the dog shot for the safety of the police officers. You don't get to do that and simultaneously call yourselves "America's Finest" in my book.

Said perfectly.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,427]

>How many have you owned? How many have you trained? How many
>have you kept as watch dogs?

None. Never owned a Chihuahua either, but I (and all the reasonable people in the world) would not reach for a shotgun if one barked at me.

Those cops fucked up. It happens sometimes. Best outcome is for them to learn from their mistakes rather than try to come up with bullshit rationalizations.

[DJL 232]

Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv0T2X1dXcI

I remember this one from years back. They pulled over a family because their car looked like on eused in a robbery......pulled the whole family out of the car and cuffed, them, no explanation for what is going on, the family is yelling at them to close the dorr so the dog does not get out on the freeway.

The 'deadly killer' dog jumps out of the car and the cop unloads his shotgun immediately on it.

I remember that. Un-fuckin' believable.

Quote

Too bad it is civil, not criminal when the cops make a mistake that costs a life......

i bet in this new case the family will nto be able to sue since they were obviously 'drug dealers'

From what I've read it sounds like they're staying quiet for the time being. I imagine either so they can come back hard or because the guy has been building a rap sheet recently and there's a deal on the table. Still, him being guilty of a crime doesn't exonerate the cops for excessive use of force.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher