How many people just got put out of work and just don't know it yet?

[DanG 1]

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With a good portion of these people not getting insurance due to affordability, what makes you think they would be paying for it?

I'm not sure what portion of the newly insured will be paying in vs. getting it for free. Either way, some of the newly insured will be paying, so the burden will be spread to more people.

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No, we already know where some of this money is coming from - higher medicare taxes on income, coupled with higher taxes on investment gains. The threshold may seem very high for those living outside the big city, but if my gf and I were married, it would be an extra 1-2k/year in taxes. She has a small condo, I rent.

I'm not sure what the increase in Medicare taxes will be, but I very much doubt it will be as high as you say. I currently pay a little over $1000 a year to Medicare. I doubt that will double under this plan. As far as the increase in investment tax, as I understand it, it only applies to earnings over $250k (please correct me if I misunderstand). If you are making more than $250k in investment returns annually, you have over $5 million in the bank (assuming a generous 5% return). You are rich regardless of where you live.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

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Believing your own propaganda is always a mistake.

You posted this while looking in a mirror, right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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I agree employers should be out of the picture; pay people what the market demands and let them make their own insurance choices.

Pirana,

I'm curious about how this could work. It seems to me that if every person is considered completely on their own, instead of being considered as part of a large group, the premiums would have to cover:
expected costs of medical care
administrative costs of the plan (including huge salaries for the CEOs), and
profit margin for shareholders (for publicly traded companies)
So, on average an individual purchaser will be worse off buying insurance than they would be just paying out of pocket for medical care. Insurance works by spreading the risk; for a group of people (as in an employer-sponsored group plan) there will be some young, healthy people and some older folks with pre-existing conditions. The insurance company can still make money as long as there are enough healthy young people in the plan to cover the relatively higher expenses associated with the less healthy. If I, as one of those older people facing the increased likelihood of medical problems as I age (not to mention some issues in my family history that increase my risk, and that I can't do anything about because I can't change my genetics), go as an individual to buy health insurance, it seems to me they are under no obligation at all to sell it to me for any less than a premium that would include expected payout, administrative costs, and profit. Basically, taking group coverage out of the picture would only make it really easy for the insurance companies to cherry pick the young and healthy, and exclude everyone else, including practitioners of risky sports such as skydiving.

I know you work in this area, so I hope you can explain to me what I am missing here.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[livendive 8]

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If you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead.

Blues,
Dave

Sure - I'll do that as soon as I want no employees. Why don't you take a 500 dollar deduction and give it to them yourself.

Bottom line is that I will have to increase my costs and my prices to the owners and by that, they will no longer be able to afford my services.

Are you or are you not currently paying your employees a "living wage", i.e. enough to afford the basics such as food, housing, transportation, and healthcare?

And how do you know today what affect this bill will have on your market in 4 years (assuming your competitors are in the same position as you)?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,426]

>are the new gov employees to handle this working for free?

Nope. But currently the hospitals providing free care _are_ required to work for free, and poor care, bankruptcy, even death is the result.

>are the illegals forbiden to get free med care?

Right now they CAN get free medical care. Odd that you are defending that.

[mnealtx 0]

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I'm not sure what the increase in Medicare taxes will be, but I very much doubt it will be as high as you say. I currently pay a little over $1000 a year to Medicare. I doubt that will double under this plan. As far as the increase in investment tax, as I understand it, it only applies to earnings over $250k (please correct me if I misunderstand). If you are making more than $250k in investment returns annually, you have over $5 million in the bank (assuming a generous 5% return). You are rich regardless of where you live.

The 200k/250k lower limit for the investment tax is on total earnings, not investment earnings. Add in the 5% increase in capital gains tax that's being talked about as well and you're looking at a possible 8.8% increase.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DanG 1]

Thanks for the clarification.

- Dan G

[marks2065 0]

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>are the new gov employees to handle this working for free?

Nope. But currently the hospitals providing free care _are_ required to work for free, and poor care, bankruptcy, even death is the result.

>are the illegals forbiden to get free med care?

Right now they CAN get free medical care. Odd that you are defending that.

wasn't deffending it, just pointing out that they still get it and we still pay for it