Ion01 1 #226 October 2, 2009 Oh.....and don't forget to not actually read the articles or look at the facts......just incase you forgot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #227 October 2, 2009 Quote>I believe this is a crayon "Holocaust" You know who had Crayolas? Hitler! Do you really want to be like Hitler? you have work the pros and cons 1 - Con - he was a horrible maniac that tried to take over Europe and kill a ton of people 2 - Con - that little mustache 1 - Pro - ***new INFO*** he had crayons method weight the pros and cons in importance, then add up the totals Pros - Crayons VERY important - weight 9 Cons - homocidal maniac - VERY important - weight 8.5 COns - mustache - annoying - weight 0.7 Pros total - 9 Cons total - 9.2 therefore, I do NOT want to be like Hitler ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #228 October 2, 2009 QuoteIf you've ever worked a trade job, you know talent is trumped by popularity. so, is this another Lucky reason to be pro-union? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,126 #229 October 2, 2009 Quotecolds and coughs are caused by infections which antibiotics are used to fight!!Colds are caused by viruses, which antibiotics do nothing for. Antibiotics are for bacterial infections.QuoteThey cancelled her operation cause they didn't have a place to let her lay down! Where has that ever happened here? Ask any ER that's waiting for a bed for a patient, particularly a charity patient. Ask any family with a disabled member who needs to go into a nursing home that accepts Medicare, or worse, Medicaid, if there's a wait for beds.Quote And about waiting on wheelchairs: The point is that if you work hard to make a good living and provide for your children you still have to wait 5 months for a wheel chair no matter what under the government where as here the is no waiting! That's the average wait time. Which means that some wait more, and some wait less. QuoteIf you don't have insurance there is still no waiting cause you can pay cash or get a loan for one if needed. Over there you have NO CHOICE but to wait.I believe they also have money in the UK, and that it can be used to purchase things. Like wheelchairs. Note that a powered wheelchair is very expensive, and that US companies don't all pay for them willingly. How do I know this? Because my church bought one for a woman who needed it, and her insurance company wouldn't pay for it because she had gotten one within the previous 5 years. Of course, the previous one wasn't motorized, but hey -- that was her problem. Anecdotal, too. But it's my anecdote, and not out of some web page. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,405 #230 October 2, 2009 >Second colds and coughs are caused by infections which antibiotics >are used to fight! The common cold is caused by a virus. Viruses are not affected by antibiotics. By giving every kid with the sniffles antibiotics we are breeding antibiotic-resistant bacteria - which means that when someone has a serious staph infection, that last ditch antibiotic will no longer work. >They cancelled her operation cause they didn't have a place to let her >lay down! Where has that ever happened here? Sometimes it's even worse here - they don't even give you the option to try. ================================= Family sues insurer who denied teen transplant 17-year-old girl died hours after Cigna finally agreed to pay for new liver Teen's death sparks outrage at CIGNA Dec. 21: A teen dies hours after her health insurance company reverses an earlier decision not to pay for a liver transplant she needed. NBC's Peter Alexander reports. NBC News updated 3:00 p.m. PT, Fri., Dec . 21, 2007 GLENDALE, Calif. - The family of a 17-year-old girl who died hours after her health insurer reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant plans to sue the company, their attorney said Friday. Nataline Sarkisyan died Thursday at about 6 p.m. at the University of California, Los Angeles Medical Center. She had been in a vegetative state for weeks, said her mother, Hilda. Attorney Mark Geragos said he plans to ask the district attorney to press murder or manslaughter charges against Cigna HealthCare in the case. The insurer “maliciously killed her” because it did not want to bear the expense of her transplant and aftercare, Geragos said. =================================== >The point is that if you work hard to make a good living and provide >for your children you still have to wait 5 months for a wheel chair no >matter what under the government where as here the is no waiting! Or you can buy one. Just as you can here. >Over there you have NO CHOICE but to wait. From a private medical service in the UK: =========== GP Services Private GP appointments are available at many of our centres throughout the UK. Our private GPs can provide: * blood tests * prescriptions * repeat prescriptions * travel advice * vaccinations * wellness services We aim to offer you an appointment within one working day for a routine appointment and will try to accommodate urgent requests on the same day at a time to suit you. =========== You have got to get your information from someplace other than FOX News. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #231 October 2, 2009 Quote If you've ever worked a trade job, you know talent is trumped by popularity. Being popular is a better way to establish rank than productivity? You think being senior is a better way to establish rank than productivity?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #232 October 2, 2009 Quote One example: Tax revenues doubled during the 1980s because Ronald Reagan's tax cuts triggered an economic boom. Well, the massive spending, particularly in defense, contributed greatly too. So long as you ignored the bill. I think it was good to eliminate 70% marginal rate, but note that tax revenues have doubled or more during every decade since the depression, so a 96% increase is actually subpar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #233 October 2, 2009 QuoteIf capitalism is so bad for health care, why does laser eye surgery cost continue to drop, despite the fact that costs for things covered by medicare and insurance continue to rise? well, $5000 for a 10 minute procedure was a bit overpriced. Few other cosmetic surgeries are so easy/fast to perform. The upfront hardware/licensing costs are considerable, but market pressure pushed. That said, the cheapest LASIK providers were often those who were still using the first generation equipment, and one would do better to shop elsewhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #234 October 2, 2009 Quote>How can any insurance company truly compete with an entity that: >1. Controls/Regulates it and a very large share of it's market. >2. Has essentially an unlimited supply of money. There are three possibilities: 1) The public option will be bad. If you are to believe every conservative on this board who has talked about it, this will be the case. Endless bureaucracy, long waits, substandard care. In this case your question is easily answered; people who can afford it will choose quality over horrible service. Only the poor who can afford nothing else use this option, and it becomes that safety net that we're talking about. 2) The public option will be competitive. In that case the system works - other insurance companies try to streamline and lower their prices to compete. 3) The public option does much better than the private option. If this happens healthcare costs down down significantly. Private insurers suffer, people get better care than they are getting now. 4) The public option is both bad, and competitive. The service offered by the public option sucks, but due to the fact that you can't compete against the government most public insurers go out of business. This could happen because the government sets reimbursment rates under actual cost and health care providers pass that on to private insurance companies (helloooooo medicade medicare). Private insurance costs rise and rise, and people are forced onto the public option despite their desire to avoid it. Middle class individuals get stuck bending over and spreading their cheeks while they subsidize the poor through forced insurance enrollment and income taxes. They lose their private insurance option, realize no benefit from the reform, and have to pay for lousy government insurance that they already subsidized with their income taxes. In the end the middle class has less and less of their paycheck left, and lesser quality health care to boot."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,405 #235 October 2, 2009 >The service offered by the public option sucks Cool. So no one who can afford insurance will use the public option. It will merely replace the current JohnRich version of socialized healthcare (i.e. go to the ER and just don't pay.) >This could happen because the government sets reimbursment rates >under actual cost and health care providers pass that on to private ' >insurance companies (helloooooo medicade medicare). They're doing that now - and insurance companies are surviving. >Middle class individuals get stuck bending over and spreading their >cheeks while they subsidize the poor through forced insurance enrollment >and income taxes. You prefer the screwing they're getting by paying the bills of the uninsured now? If that's the kind of screwing you prefer, well, great. I'd rather be able to control those costs, myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #236 October 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteIf capitalism is so bad for health care, why does laser eye surgery cost continue to drop, despite the fact that costs for things covered by medicare and insurance continue to rise? well, $5000 for a 10 minute procedure was a bit overpriced. Few other cosmetic surgeries are so easy/fast to perform. The upfront hardware/licensing costs are considerable, but market pressure pushed. That said, the cheapest LASIK providers were often those who were still using the first generation equipment, and one would do better to shop elsewhere. Thank you for confirming what I wrote. Now, why don't market forces affect other standard medical procedures? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #237 October 2, 2009 The reason no one likes discussing anything with you is that you're more interested in arguing with your distorted perception of their argument rather than actually listening to what it is they have to say. Then, you follow that with a myriad of standard responses. 1. Taxes are good, tax cuts are bad! More taxes! 2. I'd rather spend money on anything than that war you wanted! 3. You have no compassion! The USA has no compassion! 4. It's Bush's fault, Bush is evil! Here's where the problem lies: 1. The issue at hand tends not to have to do anything with Bush, the war, cutting taxes, etc. 2. When the tax cut issue was brought up in another thread, you chose to ignore the points that were made about the failure to decrease spending and it's relation to the fiscal situation of the government. 3. You keep accusing people of things they've never said. I'm not in favor of the wars, and I think we should end them. I'm assuming you do this because you cannot come up with a reasonable response to the topic at hand and pointing fingers is your way of dealing with that. 4. You have a fucked up definition of compassion. I think voluntarily helping people is a good thing, both people benefit. You seem to think that helping one person at the expense of another is a noble thing. There is no such thing as forced charity, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #238 October 2, 2009 Quote The public option will be bad. If you are to believe every conservative on this board who has talked about it, this will be the case. Endless bureaucracy, long waits, substandard care. The argument isn't that the public option will be bad, the argument is that it will make the already overstressed system worse than it is. Regarding the long waits, the system in MA pretty much confirms this. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-06-03-waittimes_N.htm QuoteThe public option will be competitive. In that case the system works - other insurance companies try to streamline and lower their prices to compete. And what if it's not competitive? What's going to stop the government from lowering their prices far lower than that of the competition, effectively putting them out of business. What's going to stop them from throwing a few hundred billion borrowed dollars into it? Quote The public option does much better than the private option. If this happens healthcare costs down down significantly. Private insurers suffer, people get better care than they are getting now. How do you define doing better? Lower perceived cost? Lower actual cost? In reality I think the plan would work for some people, but I don't think it's going do to a thing to limit the skyrocketing cost increases. Why? 1. It does nothing to address the issues of why care is expensive to begin with - it just changes where the money is directly coming from. 2. There's no tort reform at all, it does nothing to address the prevalence of "defensive medicine". 3. It provides no incentive for people to control their own costs. To be fair, insurance doesn't do this either, but there are ways to address that too. What do I think we'd end up with? Basically an expanded version of medicare, along with all of the problems associated with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #239 October 3, 2009 Most of the bills in congress include the taxation portion to start 2010 and the health care coverage to begin 2013 (conveniently after the next presidential election). The cost/deficit calculations therefore include 10 years of new tax income and 7 years of expenses. These backloaded costs mean the expenses over the second 10 years will bankrupt the country...just as social security, medicare, and medicaid are bankrupt. The top 25% of wage earners pay 85% of all income taxes. The bottom 47% pay nothing or collect welfare in the form of earned income tax credit (which is not earned at all...just a transfer from those that earn/succeed to those that live off of us). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsandreas 0 #240 October 3, 2009 To recognize people for something that is not really an accomplishment does nothing for anyone. The person being "recognized" knows inside they did nothing special. For those that can't discern the difference...Paris Hilton anyone? It reduces both the person making up the fake congrats and the person receiving it. Down the road those that truly accomplish something are not treated special like they should be as everyone is being congratulated for everything and nothing. Let's celebrate true accomplishments so others can aspire to achieve. Quote Quote And what's up with graduating from Kindergarten? How frigging stupid is that? Feeling of accomplishment. Why not, we all need to feel as tho we are worthy and this develops young. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,635 #241 October 3, 2009 Quote Quote And what's up with graduating from Kindergarten? How frigging stupid is that? . Very stupid. Once upon a time (17th Century) academic square caps were limited to master's degrees and academic robes (gowns) were for college undergraduates and above. Now they are used in high schools, jr high, and even pre-school. At this point it has no meaning any more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #242 October 3, 2009 Quote We are the least compassionate country on earth I venture to say. There are worse countries, but they don't have the means, so we can't compare us to them. Compare us to countries with similar means and we are the lest compassionate country on earth in that context. I'm sorry, but we are about to become more compassionate. That's why all of those other socialist countries, who take half of their citizens' money to support the system, have to drag us, kicking and screaming, to every natural disaster, around the globe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #243 October 3, 2009 Quote We spend more on HC than nations with uni-care and we deliver less, so this is an emergency that the party with the R has ignored. Now, let's demonize Obama for fixing this. Of course it's not an emergency for you since you have HC, just as if you were a white in 1850 slavery wouldn't be an issue for you.I don't have healthcare, and it's not an emergency, for me. I save several thousand a year, and make my statement, to the insurance companies, that their premiums are rediculously high. Maybe, I'm just one of those lucky one's, who was born with healthy genes, so I don't want to be subsidized, nor do i want to subsidize, anyone else. Outside of catastrophic care, most health insurance is to insure that someone can continue to live an unhealthy lifestyle, which, generally, was of their own making. Since the left seems to be behind the whole euginics, euthinasia mentality, why, on the other hand, are they so bent on prolonging the lives of those, they really want to just die? Wouldn't the world be better off with fewer people.... Less CO2, we can forget about cap and trade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #244 October 3, 2009 >How can any insurance company truly compete with an entity that: >1. Controls/Regulates it and a very large share of it's market. >2. Has essentially an unlimited supply of money. There are three possibilities: Quote1) The public option will be bad. If you are to believe every conservative on this board who has talked about it, this will be the case. Endless bureaucracy, long waits, substandard care. In this case your question is easily answered; people who can afford it will choose quality over horrible service. Only the poor who can afford nothing else use this option, and it becomes that safety net that we're talking about. 2) The public option will be competitive. In that case the system works - other insurance companies try to streamline and lower their prices to compete. 3) The public option does much better than the private option. If this happens healthcare costs down down significantly. Private insurers suffer, people get better care than they are getting now. [4] Public option forces health insurance out of business, because private industry must make a profit to survive, unlike the govt. Then, the govt. starts doling out health benifits, like those evil insurance companies. You pay your premium...errr. tax, and are told, Sorry, we just can't cover that. All the while, adding layers and layers of beuracracy, in order to make govt. employees, out of the masses, thus insuring a permanent voting base. Fewer and fewer dollars actually end up, in the doctor's hands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #245 October 3, 2009 You can have unionization and allow for seniority while reducing class disparity. Union seniorty can be realized within while reducing class disparity without. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote "seniority" huh? nothing about skill and talent? Amazing, that he hates all of those old, blue hairs, who do nothing but garden and go to tea parties,[not the politcal kind] all day. They, too, have earned their senority in life. He just doesn't approve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #246 October 3, 2009 >I believe this is a crayon "Holocaust" QuoteYou know who had Crayolas? Hitler! Do you really want to be like Hitler? Why do you hate the smell of new crayons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #247 October 3, 2009 In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you've worked twenty years, in a company, and studied, and gone through an apprenticeship program, [Oops. that ugly class thing, raising its head, again] and moved up, you are willing to split your pay, and prestige and parking spot, with the rookie, who just walked in the door? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- careful, there, Lucky - I'm assuming you are also pro-union, so the pecking order must be supported in your answer even though it conflicts with your other philosophies..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can have unionization and allow for seniority while reducing class disparity. Union seniorty can be realized within while reducing class disparity without. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "seniority" huh? nothing about skill and talent? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteSeniority is how unions establish rank, that was the context with which I wrote that. If you've ever worked a trade job, you know talent is trumped by popularity.Yet, you embrace this designation of class. Shouldn't the lead man ,voluntarily, give up some of his pay, so that the newbee won't feel so unequal? That's why I despise younions. When I'm on a job, no one stands around, because some job is beneath them. If you ain't hittin' it, then, hit the road... Equality, for all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #248 October 3, 2009 Quote And about waiting on wheelchairs: The point is that if you work hard to make a good living and provide for your children you still have to wait 5 months for a wheel chair no matter what under the government where as here the is no waiting! If you don't have insurance there is still no waiting cause you can pay cash or get a loan for one if needed. Over there you have NO CHOICE but to wait. Once the govt. healthcare, gets rolling, full steam, there shouldn't be a shortage of wheelchairs. Old people will be falling out of them, dead, in the waiting room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #249 October 3, 2009 Quote And what's up with graduating from Kindergarten? How frigging stupid is that? . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Very stupid. Once upon a time (17th Century) academic square caps were limited to master's degrees and academic robes (gowns) were for college undergraduates and above. Now they are used in high schools, jr high, and even pre-school. At this point it has no meaning any more. I feel so special and privileged...The professor agrees with me, on something. Or maybe, you're just an old fuddy duddy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,635 #250 October 3, 2009 Quote I feel so special and privileged...The professor agrees with me, on something. Like a stopped clock, you are right occasionally. 8 consecutive posts. You need to get out more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next Page 10 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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kallend 1,635 #241 October 3, 2009 Quote Quote And what's up with graduating from Kindergarten? How frigging stupid is that? . Very stupid. Once upon a time (17th Century) academic square caps were limited to master's degrees and academic robes (gowns) were for college undergraduates and above. Now they are used in high schools, jr high, and even pre-school. At this point it has no meaning any more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #242 October 3, 2009 Quote We are the least compassionate country on earth I venture to say. There are worse countries, but they don't have the means, so we can't compare us to them. Compare us to countries with similar means and we are the lest compassionate country on earth in that context. I'm sorry, but we are about to become more compassionate. That's why all of those other socialist countries, who take half of their citizens' money to support the system, have to drag us, kicking and screaming, to every natural disaster, around the globe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #243 October 3, 2009 Quote We spend more on HC than nations with uni-care and we deliver less, so this is an emergency that the party with the R has ignored. Now, let's demonize Obama for fixing this. Of course it's not an emergency for you since you have HC, just as if you were a white in 1850 slavery wouldn't be an issue for you.I don't have healthcare, and it's not an emergency, for me. I save several thousand a year, and make my statement, to the insurance companies, that their premiums are rediculously high. Maybe, I'm just one of those lucky one's, who was born with healthy genes, so I don't want to be subsidized, nor do i want to subsidize, anyone else. Outside of catastrophic care, most health insurance is to insure that someone can continue to live an unhealthy lifestyle, which, generally, was of their own making. Since the left seems to be behind the whole euginics, euthinasia mentality, why, on the other hand, are they so bent on prolonging the lives of those, they really want to just die? Wouldn't the world be better off with fewer people.... Less CO2, we can forget about cap and trade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #244 October 3, 2009 >How can any insurance company truly compete with an entity that: >1. Controls/Regulates it and a very large share of it's market. >2. Has essentially an unlimited supply of money. There are three possibilities: Quote1) The public option will be bad. If you are to believe every conservative on this board who has talked about it, this will be the case. Endless bureaucracy, long waits, substandard care. In this case your question is easily answered; people who can afford it will choose quality over horrible service. Only the poor who can afford nothing else use this option, and it becomes that safety net that we're talking about. 2) The public option will be competitive. In that case the system works - other insurance companies try to streamline and lower their prices to compete. 3) The public option does much better than the private option. If this happens healthcare costs down down significantly. Private insurers suffer, people get better care than they are getting now. [4] Public option forces health insurance out of business, because private industry must make a profit to survive, unlike the govt. Then, the govt. starts doling out health benifits, like those evil insurance companies. You pay your premium...errr. tax, and are told, Sorry, we just can't cover that. All the while, adding layers and layers of beuracracy, in order to make govt. employees, out of the masses, thus insuring a permanent voting base. Fewer and fewer dollars actually end up, in the doctor's hands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #245 October 3, 2009 You can have unionization and allow for seniority while reducing class disparity. Union seniorty can be realized within while reducing class disparity without. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote "seniority" huh? nothing about skill and talent? Amazing, that he hates all of those old, blue hairs, who do nothing but garden and go to tea parties,[not the politcal kind] all day. They, too, have earned their senority in life. He just doesn't approve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #246 October 3, 2009 >I believe this is a crayon "Holocaust" QuoteYou know who had Crayolas? Hitler! Do you really want to be like Hitler? Why do you hate the smell of new crayons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #247 October 3, 2009 In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you've worked twenty years, in a company, and studied, and gone through an apprenticeship program, [Oops. that ugly class thing, raising its head, again] and moved up, you are willing to split your pay, and prestige and parking spot, with the rookie, who just walked in the door? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- careful, there, Lucky - I'm assuming you are also pro-union, so the pecking order must be supported in your answer even though it conflicts with your other philosophies..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can have unionization and allow for seniority while reducing class disparity. Union seniorty can be realized within while reducing class disparity without. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "seniority" huh? nothing about skill and talent? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteSeniority is how unions establish rank, that was the context with which I wrote that. If you've ever worked a trade job, you know talent is trumped by popularity.Yet, you embrace this designation of class. Shouldn't the lead man ,voluntarily, give up some of his pay, so that the newbee won't feel so unequal? That's why I despise younions. When I'm on a job, no one stands around, because some job is beneath them. If you ain't hittin' it, then, hit the road... Equality, for all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #248 October 3, 2009 Quote And about waiting on wheelchairs: The point is that if you work hard to make a good living and provide for your children you still have to wait 5 months for a wheel chair no matter what under the government where as here the is no waiting! If you don't have insurance there is still no waiting cause you can pay cash or get a loan for one if needed. Over there you have NO CHOICE but to wait. Once the govt. healthcare, gets rolling, full steam, there shouldn't be a shortage of wheelchairs. Old people will be falling out of them, dead, in the waiting room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #249 October 3, 2009 Quote And what's up with graduating from Kindergarten? How frigging stupid is that? . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Very stupid. Once upon a time (17th Century) academic square caps were limited to master's degrees and academic robes (gowns) were for college undergraduates and above. Now they are used in high schools, jr high, and even pre-school. At this point it has no meaning any more. I feel so special and privileged...The professor agrees with me, on something. Or maybe, you're just an old fuddy duddy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #250 October 3, 2009 Quote I feel so special and privileged...The professor agrees with me, on something. Like a stopped clock, you are right occasionally. 8 consecutive posts. You need to get out more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
