rivetgeek 0 #1 August 13, 2009 http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/08/10/it-doesnt-take-stephen-hawking-to-figure-this-one-out/ Silly town hall recruiting fools. ~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,407 #2 August 13, 2009 That's gotta sting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #3 August 13, 2009 Quote That's gotta sting. A rushmc-ism if ever I saw one.He was definitely British when I knew him in college. "Hawking is, you might say, living, breathing proof that these people are first-class fools." That must make the people who then parrot the lies on dz.com 3rd rate fools.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #4 August 13, 2009 Well what do you expect? His sound box thingie doesn't have one of the various English accents. _____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #5 August 13, 2009 Well, hell's bells - look at what the "great" UK health system has done to the poor guy: he's stuck in a wheelchair! That's just wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #6 August 13, 2009 Why do so many Americans defend their healthcare system, ranked 37th in the world by the WHO in 2000? (World Health Organisation, not the band.) http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,407 #7 August 13, 2009 "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't" perhaps? Another issue is that right now the less-responsible elements of society don't have to pay anything for healthcare - they just walk into an ER, get free care and don't pay. Such people see no reason to change anything, because the fallout of their actions (bankrupted hospitals etc) does not affect them directly or immediately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 August 14, 2009 Quote"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't" perhaps?. If we all followed that 'philosophy' on every subject, the human race would never move forward. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 August 14, 2009 QuoteWhy do so many Americans defend their healthcare system, ranked 37th in the world by the WHO in 2000? (World Health Organisation, not the band.) http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html Because WHO's 'criteria' are bullshit. Look at the individual categories and not the overall ranking.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #10 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhy do so many Americans defend their healthcare system, ranked 37th in the world by the WHO in 2000? (World Health Organisation, not the band.) http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html Because WHO's 'criteria' are bullshit. Look at the individual categories and not the overall ranking. Lame excuse, the sort of thing I expect from freshmen. US life expectancy is below UK and Canada too, both for men and women.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #11 August 14, 2009 QuoteBecause WHO's 'criteria' are bullshit. The WHO is the most respected health authority on the planet. It's a long uphill battle to try to prove that some guy on the Internet knows more about healthcare than they do.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #12 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy do so many Americans defend their healthcare system, ranked 37th in the world by the WHO in 2000? (World Health Organisation, not the band.) http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html Because WHO's 'criteria' are bullshit. Look at the individual categories and not the overall ranking. Lame excuse, the sort of thing I expect from freshmen. US life expectancy is below UK and Canada too, both for men and women. There's plenty of sites out that that have debunked WHO's criteria for the bullshit they are. Life expectancy has nothing to do with medical care except in a VERY general sense. Lifestyle choices by the individuals are the most important criteria for that. Of course, since you're an MD, you knew that already.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteBecause WHO's 'criteria' are bullshit. The WHO is the most respected health authority on the planet. It's a long uphill battle to try to prove that some guy on the Internet knows more about healthcare than they do. Appeal to authority has jack shit to do with their criteria, either. This has been rehashed several times - when you can tell me what 'fairness' and 'who pays' has to do with the effectiveness of the healthcare recieved, I *might* take WHO's bullshit rankings more seriously.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #14 August 14, 2009 QuoteAppeal to authority has jack shit to do with their criteria, either. This has been rehashed several times - when you can tell me what 'fairness' and 'who pays' has to do with the effectiveness of the healthcare recieved, I *might* take WHO's bullshit rankings more seriously. I was looking at cost (US=1) and effectiveness (US=24).Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteAppeal to authority has jack shit to do with their criteria, either. This has been rehashed several times - when you can tell me what 'fairness' and 'who pays' has to do with the effectiveness of the healthcare recieved, I *might* take WHO's bullshit rankings more seriously. I was looking at cost (US=1) and effectiveness (US=24). Wrong columns - your 24th place reference is life expectancy - something that is MUCH more depending on life choices than medical treatment.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #16 August 14, 2009 QuoteWhy do so many Americans defend their healthcare system, That’s a good question. I just think we have a lot of stupid/uninformed people. It is amazing how they are able to get the very people these policies would help to stand up over and over again on things that would benefit them. It’s the same with war. I am done trying to find reasons for it. I just think we have a lot of people who are sheep and incapable of even grasping the simplest ideas. I mean Death panels? How much fucking ignorant fear do you need to be predisposed with to believe this shit?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 August 14, 2009 QuoteI just think we have a lot of stupid/uninformed people. Judging from the support for the healthcare bill, that's obvious. QuoteDeath panels? nah - obama already said it's better for granny to get a pain pill rather than the pacemaker.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,131 #18 August 14, 2009 Quoteobama already said it's better for granny to get a pain pill rather than the pacemakerHere I'll bring in my recent personal experience. Sometimes it IS better for granny to get the pain pill. My father died recently, and I was in the middle of a whole lot of these decisions. Do we tube feed? Do we do special food? Do we order orthotics for his feet? Do we have physical therapy in? What if he gets pneumonia? What do we do in the event of a fall? Is he enjoying his life? Would I if I were in his shoes? What's his overall attitude towards death? Taken in the context of a 91-year-old man with dementia (caused by a serious head injury the previous year), the decisions were different than they would have been 2 years earlier, when he was active and all there. It was our choice, but I appreciated having the knowledge. When he was in the hospital after his last bad fall, we talked with the doctors about nursing home and other options. We were told in no uncertain terms what the quality of life was likely to be in the best of nursing homes, and the doctor suggested that almost anything would be better than that. A pacemaker isn't a very big surgery; outpatient. But when someone is debilitated, really, any treatment should be considered in the overall context of their life. Not in extending it to the max necessarily (although if that's their stated wish, then yes). But the vast majority of the people my dad was friends with when he was in better shape would have preferred to live a little more full-bore for a little less time, than getting treatment after treatment after treatment to eke out a little more time. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,407 #19 August 14, 2009 >nah - obama already said it's better for granny to get a pain pill rather than the pacemaker. I have a friend who is dealing with end-of-life issues with her mother. She took great care of her body, to the extent that her doctors expect her to live another five years. Unfortunately, her mind is gone. She can't walk, talk, or (often) even eat. She wears a diaper. They are trying to decide whether to put her on a feeding tube, but that seems like a bad path to take to them. They'd ask her if they could, because it's a really tough decision. Keep a body without a mind another five years, or let her body die? If you asked her kids whether she should get a pacemaker to help her live another 10 years instead of another 5, they'd probably slam the door in your face. She never saw a doctor about end-of-life issues, so she doesn't have a living will. Good on you for trying to make sure more elderly suffer through this nightmare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #20 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteI just think we have a lot of stupid/uninformed people. Judging from the support for the healthcare bill, that's obvious. QuoteDeath panels? nah - obama already said it's better for granny to get a pain pill rather than the pacemaker. You can become a charter member of RATS. In fact I guess you are already.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewhast 0 #21 August 14, 2009 http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/115086.php This is only one example why. It is a common trend amongst most illnesses. "For all cancers, Europe had a much lower survival than the US. Survival for prostate cancer in the US is 91.9% compared to 57.1% in Europe - a 34% difference." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #22 August 14, 2009 Comparing the US to all of Europe is kinda dishonest since you get countries like England and France that are comparable to the US lumped in with Eastern European countries that aren't. Also, while the US does best with breast and prostate cancer survival, Japan does better with colon and rectal cancer among men while France does better with colon and rectal cancer among women. Finally, I think it's interesting how the article also points out the wide variety of cancer survival rates in the US based around race and geographic location and how these are at least partially tied to unequal access to health care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #23 August 14, 2009 Oh what a shocker .. people cherry picking statistics to suit their personal agenda (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #24 August 14, 2009 another example of affirmative action for whites... QuoteWhites and blacks in the USA saw differences in cancer survival between 7 and 14% - favoring whites. Specifically, white women had a 14% higher survival for breast cancer than black women, and white men had a 7% higher survival for prostate cancer than black men. What are the reasons for these racial disparities? The researchers suggest that white and black people receive diagnoses in different stages of the disease, have unequal access to health care, and are different in complying with treatment. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/115086.phpstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #25 August 14, 2009 Quote Oh what a shocker .. people cherry picking statistics to suit their personal agenda 8 out of 10 people do that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
