Fits with "why don't people work"

[RonD1120 58]

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"Looks like deja vu all over again." ~Yogi Berra

I don't see what the problem here is. Looks like the blind squirrel has found a nut, actually.

Why yeth, yeth he has.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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I don't have a problem with either one of those bills.

I once worked with a psychiatrist in a psych hospital, 1994-95. He did not believe marijuana should be or would be legalized. His reasoning was social, not personal health. He believed that chronic users lose their initiative to aspire to excellence. I always thought it would be good for our business. Like planned obsolescence in merchandising.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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and for a christian, the article Ron posted sure doesn't sound very loving, does it?

I think you're looking for love in all the wrong faces.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[mnealtx 0]

I don't dispute the possibility of your point (people 'losing initiative'), but I don't think that is the outcome of every user.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BikerBabe 0]

oh come on, you're an expert at hyperbole, don't you recognize it when you see it?

This whole thread is hyperbole, on both sides.

I've never ever portrayed myself as someone who cares more about the economy than social freedoms. I have always and will always put social issues above economic ones. I also happen to believe that getting the gov't out of our homes and private lives will help us in the long run economically. I also don't really care if you disagree, or think i'm naive or stupid. Save it.

I know the bills that he is currently sponsoring that *I* care about are the ones mentioned in the OP, and...

H.R.2267 : To amend title 31, United States Code, to provide for the licensing of Internet gambling activities by the Secretary of the Treasury, to provide for consumer protections on the Internet, to enforce the tax code, and for other purposes. (40 co-sponsors) This SOUNDS like it limits freedom, but what it REALLY does is protect internet poker from being banned outright, which is a move sponsored by Focus on the Family and other right wing "family values" groups.

H.R.3017 : To prohibit employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. (126 co-sponsors). 'nuff said.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[BikerBabe 0]

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and for a christian, the article Ron posted sure doesn't sound very loving, does it?

I think you're looking for love in all the wrong faces.

How immensely Christ-like of you.

It might surprise you that I, too, am a Christian. Seems like so many forget that pesky second clause of the Great Commandment...the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing.

So...what if your neighbor happens to be a gay man who smokes marijuana?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[RonD1120 58]

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You've been giving us quite a lesson in "false prophets" lately. Thank you.

Why do you have the poison label on your logo? I don't care, just curious. Is it project or inspire fear?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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I don't dispute the possibility of your point (people 'losing initiative'), but I don't think that is the outcome of every user.

Quite true. Not all pot heads are going to end up in drug treatment. However, in all the years I worked in the field, I feel safe in saying that over 95% of my clients used pot.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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How immensely Christ-like of you.

It might surprise you that I, too, am a Christian. Seems like so many forget that pesky second clause of the Great Commandment...the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing.

So...what if your neighbor happens to be a gay man who smokes marijuana?

I would gladly offer my services as a Christian counselor.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[BikerBabe 0]

what, so i can learn to be full of hate toward my fellow man? thanks, i'll pass.

And you failed to answer my question, which was NOT rhetorical:

What if your neighbor is a gay man who smokes marijuana?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[dmkellett 0]

Mate, the reason it is not very loving is that the Christian right believe in only loving those who subscribe to their neolithic sadistic beliefs. If you are for instance gay, or you choose to smoke pot in your own home, you are cast down with the sodomites and will burn in hell for all time. Isn't their silly god a vengeful bastard ?

If they had their way we would all be in church running around screaming in tongues just like people who OD on LSD. So you see, it's OK to get high on a fake make believe friend and run about talking dribble, but if you actually get HIGH you burn in hell. Or even worse if you " look with lust" at someone of your own sex.

Go home crazy Christian right. no one in the liberal world cares.

My bro lives in CO and he told me the weirdo who chucked Richard Dawkins off his church property turned out to be shagging Gay hookers.... Now thats what I call crazy christian suppressed desire!!

D

[justinb138 0]

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I also happen to believe that getting the gov't out of our homes and private lives will help us in the long run economically.

I agree. We just differ on who in congress shares those interests. If you'd said Ron Paul, I'd understand, but Barney Frank just doesn't make any sense.

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I know the bills that he is currently sponsoring that *I* care about are the ones mentioned in the OP, and...

I'd agree with him on the Marijuana bill, but that doesn't mean he has interest in less government. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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This SOUNDS like it limits freedom, but what it REALLY does is protect internet poker from being banned outright, which is a move sponsored by Focus on the Family and other right wing "family values" groups.

So because it's less restrictive than it could be that makes it more free than simply not passing it? Isn't that kind of like letting the air out of your tires so you won't get a flat?




Did you read that bill. Here are the issues I have with it:

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To amend title 31, United States Code, to provide for the licensing of Internet gambling activities by the Secretary of the Treasury, to provide for consumer protections on the Internet, to enforce the tax code, and for other purposes

What "other purposes"? Scary thought.

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(3) ENFORCEMENT AGENT- The term ‘enforcement agent’ means any individual authorized by the Secretary to enforce the provisions of this subchapter and regulations prescribed under this subchapter.

So who is going to be doing the "enforcing" ?

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Sec. 5383. Establishment and administration of licensing program

‘(a) Treasury Responsibilities- The Secretary shall have responsibility for the following activities:

‘(1) Exercising full regulatory jurisdiction over--

‘(A) the operation of Internet gambling facilities by licensees; and

‘(B) the licensure of all applicants.

So basically the Tres. Sec. gets to do what ever he wants with the industry?

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‘(D) is delinquent in filing any applicable Federal or State tax returns or in the payment of any taxes, penalties, additions to tax, or interest owed to a State or the United States.

It's about the money, not about "protecting" people.

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‘(3) COLLECTION OF CUSTOMER TAXES- Appropriate mechanisms to ensure that all taxes relating to Internet gambling from persons engaged in Internet gambling are collected at the time of any payment of any proceeds of Internet gambling.

‘(4) COLLECTION OF TAXES OF LICENSEE- Appropriate mechanisms to ensure that all taxes relating to Internet gambling from any licensee are collected and disbursed as required by law, and that adequate records to enable later audit or verification are maintained.

Yep. Definitely about the money..

[mnealtx 0]

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Mate, the reason it is not very loving is that the Christian right believe in only loving those who subscribe to their neolithic sadistic beliefs. If you are for instance gay, or you choose to smoke pot in your own home, you are cast down with the sodomites and will burn in hell for all time. Isn't their silly god a vengeful bastard ?

If they had their way we would all be in church running around screaming in tongues just like people who OD on LSD. So you see, it's OK to get high on a fake make believe friend and run about talking dribble, but if you actually get HIGH you burn in hell. Or even worse if you " look with lust" at someone of your own sex.

Go home crazy Christian right. no one in the liberal world cares.

My bro lives in CO and he told me the weirdo who chucked Richard Dawkins off his church property turned out to be shagging Gay hookers.... Now thats what I call crazy christian suppressed desire!!

D

Thanks for the living example of the "tolerance" of the Left...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[TomAiello 25]

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I've never ever portrayed myself as someone who cares more about the economy than social freedoms. I have always and will always put social issues above economic ones.

What's the difference? And how/where do you draw the line?

All human interactions are "economic" and all economic interactions are, at their core "social." In China, people try to justify "social" freedoms by claiming that they're really about business.

The distinction appears to be pretty artificial to me, and largely imposed based on the personal preferences of the speaker.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[billvon 2,417]

>He lost that chance in high school once he smoke the stuff.

Right. But for the third time - how does other people smoking it hurt YOU?

[Lefty 0]

You really don't need pot to kill a person's initiative, nor do you need it to easily take their freedoms away. Simply having a focus group slogan accomplishes that goal quite nicely.

Another nice thing about legalizing marijuana is that it will be easier to identify the people who fail at life by letting a drug control them. Means more opportunity for the rest of us. Hopefully they'll also become too apathetic to vote.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[BikerBabe 0]

Because it's a measure specifically put in place to protect internet poker from the UIGEA. Do you know what that is?

It was this little rider that was inserted onto the safe port act in the middle of the night (LITERALLY) before the vote that makes it illegal for banks to host transactions for internet gambling sites. (Funny how the people crying about government takeover of banks all seem to SUPPORT this type of legislation on "moral" grounds)

Here, read about it. Check the references at the bottom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Port_Act

Or if you prefer:

The text of the SAFE Port Act: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:H.R.4954:

Analysis of the UIGEA: http://www.gamblingandthelaw.com/columns/2006_act.htm

And the original press release from the House regarding Frank's bill: http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/financialsvcs_dem/press042607.shtml

Trust me, i know what i'm talking about with the internet poker bill. Right now it's my only form of (albeit meager) income, and I know ALL ABOUT what the government is and isn't doing in regards to it.

This bill's purpose is to protect people like me from things like the southern district of new york seizing over $30 million of legitimate winnings based on shaky "legal" grounds. Yes, it's regulating and taxing the industry. But this is a "blocker" bill so Charles Dobson and his religious cronies and Rep. Spencer Bachaus don't swoop in and make it completely and totally illegal. It also serves to effectively repeal the UIGEA.

Oh, and by the way for all you "libertarians" out there...Ron Paul is a co-sponsor of Barney Frank's bill.

whoops, forgot a link. There's a TON of info about this issue on this site, if you're interested: http://theppa.org/

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Lefty 0]

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Mate, the reason it is not very loving is that the Christian right believe in only loving those who subscribe to their neolithic sadistic beliefs. If you are for instance gay, or you choose to smoke pot in your own home, you are cast down with the sodomites and will burn in hell for all time. Isn't their silly god a vengeful bastard ?

If they had their way we would all be in church running around screaming in tongues just like people who OD on LSD. So you see, it's OK to get high on a fake make believe friend and run about talking dribble, but if you actually get HIGH you burn in hell. Or even worse if you " look with lust" at someone of your own sex.

Go home crazy Christian right. no one in the liberal world cares.

My bro lives in CO and he told me the weirdo who chucked Richard Dawkins off his church property turned out to be shagging Gay hookers.... Now thats what I call crazy christian suppressed desire!!

D

Thanks for the living example of the "tolerance" of the Left...

No kidding. It's fun to laugh at their hate speech, though.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[mnealtx 0]

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Hopefully they'll also become too apathetic to vote.

How's that working for you so far?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[TomAiello 25]

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>He lost that chance in high school once he smoke the stuff.

Right. But for the third time - how does other people smoking it hurt YOU?

In the pocketbook?

Other people smoking marijuana, under the current system, costs me money because:

(a) they are more likely to have higher healthcare costs (and for some of them I'm going to have to pay taxes to foot the bill) than non-smokers

(b) law enforcement will waste lots of my tax dollars chasing them down, prosecuting them and incarcerating them

(c) the federal government will waste lots of my tax dollars waging "war" to keep the drugs out of the country


There are several solutions here.

First is to eliminate "crimes" that don't hurt anyone, and get the police back to their core mission (keeping people safe).

Second is to stop making me pay for the healthcare of other people. If I don't have to pay for it, I've got no justification for trying to control their behavior. If I do pay for their poor health, then of course I'll want to "improve" their health "for their own good."

There are lots of ancillary effects to follow those (for example, tax dollars paying for counseling and rehab to get off the drugs, or increased chances that I'll be hurt by a criminal because the police I pay for are too busy chasing people who never hurt anyone).

Bottom line: any time that you want the public to "provide" for people, you create a justification for the government to take away their freedoms.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[BikerBabe 0]

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Mate, the reason it is not very loving is that the Christian right believe in only loving those who subscribe to their neolithic sadistic beliefs. If you are for instance gay, or you choose to smoke pot in your own home, you are cast down with the sodomites and will burn in hell for all time. Isn't their silly god a vengeful bastard ?

If they had their way we would all be in church running around screaming in tongues just like people who OD on LSD. So you see, it's OK to get high on a fake make believe friend and run about talking dribble, but if you actually get HIGH you burn in hell. Or even worse if you " look with lust" at someone of your own sex.

Go home crazy Christian right. no one in the liberal world cares.

My bro lives in CO and he told me the weirdo who chucked Richard Dawkins off his church property turned out to be shagging Gay hookers.... Now thats what I call crazy christian suppressed desire!!

D

I'm not sure what I said or did to make you think that i in any way agree with Ron's views on who does or doesn't belong in the kingdom of God, but i assure you, i most certainly do NOT agree with him. But i AM a Christian (though i would suppose he doesn't think so).

Nor do i think your post is particularly flattering to non-Christians, though i understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could find a more loving way to say it, though

This is the reason many Christians have started calling themselves "Followers of Jesus." the label "Christian" just has negative and completely NON-Christian connotations now, unfortunately.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Lefty 0]

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Hopefully they'll also become too apathetic to vote.

How's that working for you so far?

Hey, I said "hopefully". Doesn't matter if it makes sense as long as my head is full of hope and my heart is full of dreams. Thanks Obama!

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[DARK 0]

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Quite true. Not all pot heads are going to end up in drug treatment. However, in all the years I worked in the field, I feel safe in saying that over 95% of my clients used pot.

that is not the same as saying that 95% of mj users have a problem. not the same by a long shot

how many of your clients drink coffee? or eat chocolate and assuming its equal if not more than people who smoke pot why are they not criminals in exactly the same way?

its HYPOCRISY as usual

[RonD1120 58]

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what, so i can learn to be full of hate toward my fellow man? thanks, i'll pass.

And you failed to answer my question, which was NOT rhetorical:

What if your neighbor is a gay man who smokes marijuana?

I am serious. He obviously has a problem. He is breaking the law. I would offer my assistance. If he did not want my services I would come back and see what is being posted on dropzone.com.

Over the years I've provided counseling services to many homosexual substance users. Regardless of the venue, secular or Christian the goal is the same, help the client find his / her way out of bondage.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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You really don't need pot to kill a person's initiative, nor do you need it to easily take their freedoms away. Simply having a focus group slogan accomplishes that goal quite nicely.

Another nice thing about legalizing marijuana is that it will be easier to identify the people who fail at life by letting a drug control them. Means more opportunity for the rest of us. Hopefully they'll also become too apathetic to vote.

You made me laugh at that one.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.