Pulse 0
Recommended Posts
stitch 0
Who else thinks "FallingOsh" is "PeacefulJeffery" reincarnated ??
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"
riddler 0
QuoteWhere are those polls? I couldn't find them. If people think oil was the main reason then they're completely ignoring fact. Did you even read the reference I posted about Iraqi oil imports?
You must not be trying too hard:
Several large polls, and a number of smaller polls spanning the entire course of the war suggest that people believe it was about oil.
Even way back in 2002, before most Americans realized we were hood-winked, a USA Today poll said that the majority of Americans (55%) thought stabilizing oil was a primary reason for the Iraq war.
Britains say oil was the primary reason for the Iraq war.
Even the Iraqis under the new regime think it was about oil.
By the way, here is Bush himself alluding to oil as a good reason to be in Iraq:
Quote"You can imagine a world in which these extremists and radicals got control of energy resources," he (Bush) said at a rally here Saturday for Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-Colo.). "And then you can imagine them saying, 'We're going to pull a bunch of oil off the market to run your price of oil up unless you do the following. And the following would be along the lines of, well, 'Retreat and let us continue to expand our dark vision.' "
Bush said extremists controlling Iraq "would use energy as economic blackmail" and try to pressure the United States to abandon its alliance with Israel. At a stop in Missouri on Friday, he suggested that such radicals would be "able to pull millions of barrels of oil off the market, driving the price up to $300 or $400 a barrel."
Oh, and there's this, too:
QuoteAccording to documents provided by former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, Bush instructed his aides to look for a way to overthrow the Iraqi regime ten days after taking office in January, 2001. A secret memo entitled, "Plan for post-Saddam Iraq," was discussed in January and February of 2001, and a Pentagon document, dated March 5, 2001, and entitled "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield contracts," included a map of potential areas for exploration.
Even, the official reasons for the war are listed thus:
QuoteThe military objectives of the invasion were; end the Hussein regime; eliminate weapons of mass destruction; eliminate Islamic terrorists; obtain intelligence on terrorist networks; distribute humanitarian aid; secure Iraq’s oil infrastructure; and assist in creating a representative government as a model for other Middle East nations.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
Amazon 7
All that must be written in red colored ink... so that it is invisible to those who drink all that red koolaid daily.
QuoteQuoteWhere are those polls? I couldn't find them. If people think oil was the main reason then they're completely ignoring fact. Did you even read the reference I posted about Iraqi oil imports?
You must not be trying too hard:
Several large polls, and a number of smaller polls spanning the entire course of the war suggest that people believe it was about oil.
Even way back in 2002, before most Americans realized we were hood-winked, a USA Today poll said that the majority of Americans (55%) thought stabilizing oil was a primary reason for the Iraq war.
Britains say oil was the primary reason for the Iraq war.
Even the Iraqis under the new regime think it was about oil.
By the way, here is Bush himself alluding to oil as a good reason to be in Iraq:Quote"You can imagine a world in which these extremists and radicals got control of energy resources," he (Bush) said at a rally here Saturday for Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-Colo.). "And then you can imagine them saying, 'We're going to pull a bunch of oil off the market to run your price of oil up unless you do the following. And the following would be along the lines of, well, 'Retreat and let us continue to expand our dark vision.' "
Bush said extremists controlling Iraq "would use energy as economic blackmail" and try to pressure the United States to abandon its alliance with Israel. At a stop in Missouri on Friday, he suggested that such radicals would be "able to pull millions of barrels of oil off the market, driving the price up to $300 or $400 a barrel."
Oh, and there's this, too:QuoteAccording to documents provided by former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, Bush instructed his aides to look for a way to overthrow the Iraqi regime ten days after taking office in January, 2001. A secret memo entitled, "Plan for post-Saddam Iraq," was discussed in January and February of 2001, and a Pentagon document, dated March 5, 2001, and entitled "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield contracts," included a map of potential areas for exploration.
Even, the official reasons for the war are listed thus:QuoteThe military objectives of the invasion were; end the Hussein regime; eliminate weapons of mass destruction; eliminate Islamic terrorists; obtain intelligence on terrorist networks; distribute humanitarian aid; secure Iraq’s oil infrastructure; and assist in creating a representative government as a model for other Middle East nations.
From your first link:
"32.7 percent considered Iraq's oil supply a "major factor"
33% is not most.
And I read the polls from the "mondo times." The same people who brought us such fair and balanced polls as this and this. This little gem is my favorite. That's some fore-sight right there.
I know energy will always be a top national priority. Saying we invaded Iraq to take control of their oil is just ignorant.
QuoteThe military objectives of the invasion were; end the Hussein regime; eliminate weapons of mass destruction; eliminate Islamic terrorists; obtain intelligence on terrorist networks; distribute humanitarian aid; secure Iraq’s oil infrastructure; and assist in creating a representative government as a model for other Middle East nations.
Securing Iraq's oil infrastructure does not, in any way, mean we're taking it over. It doesn't even mean we're taking more of it, as evidenced by our import records. My original statement still stands.
If people think oil was the main reason then they're completely ignoring fact.
--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.
riddler 0
QuoteI hate to break it to you, but public opinion != reason. Sorry.
Why don't you just go on record as saying that the majority of Americans are stupid and don't deserve to have a say in governmental policies? Bush seems to have been running things for the last eight years under the same pretense.
This isn't science - it's government. Our opinion matters.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
mnealtx 0
QuoteOur opinion matters.
It certainly does - it does NOT, however, constitute 'proof' or 'reason'.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
The concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
Quote
You would think a college professor would take the time to understand why type of arrangement currently exists between the US forces and the Iraqi government before makin an ignorant statement like this. Seems I thought wrong.
Next time you want to spew your BS about what is going on in Iraq, talking about how we have a military occupation of the country take the time to do some damn homework. Your blind hatred for everything we do is disgusting and pathetic.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
QuoteGee and here I thought it was just a bunch of men with little dick's trying to be macho and pretend they were warriors....since they ran the last time a war rolled around When They Were Young and Weren't Soldiers.
Almost as bad as a SERE instructor who has never seen combat running around talkin shit like they're a war hero.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
kallend 1,651
QuoteThe concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
Quote
You would think a college professor would take the time to understand why type of arrangement currently exists between the US forces and the Iraqi government before makin an ignorant statement like this. Seems I thought wrong.
Next time you want to spew your BS about what is going on in Iraq, talking about how we have a military occupation of the country take the time to do some damn homework. Your blind hatred for everything we do is disgusting and pathetic.
You could try to respond to the point instead of making a personal attack.
The concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
I will add that the concept of an independent government elected under a process designed by an occupying military power is also absurd. Iraq has both problems....
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
I will add that the concept of an independent government elected under a process designed by an occupying military power is also absurd. Iraq has both problems.
I will add that the concept of an independent government elected under a process designed by an occupying military power is also absurd. Iraq has both problems.
Quote
Double check your facts, our military no longer operates in any capacity in Iraq without Iraqi approval. Believe what you want, but the fact remains that the Iraqi government is in charge of their country and we are being held accountable for are actions which are all closely scrutinized by the Iraqi government. What would I know though, not like I've been there or anything.
Our government may have put the Iraqi government in place initially after the invasion but they are taking over for themselvs very quickly. And much like everyone that we have helped in any capacity they are becoming extremely short-sighted and demanding things from us constantly and trying to find quick ways to get us out of there. The Iraqis are replacing what was put in place by the US in a very quick fashion so that they can be seen as being self sufficient. My hat goes off to them for their recent progress, but unfortunately for the soldiers in theatre they are no longer able to do their jobs without being kept on a short leash.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
kallend 1,651
QuoteThe concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
I will add that the concept of an independent government elected under a process designed by an occupying military power is also absurd. Iraq has both problems.Quote
Double check your facts, our military no longer operates in any capacity in Iraq without Iraqi approval.
Ha ha - that would be the agreement negotiated between the puppet government and the occupying military power, right?
You should have spent more time studying history, like the history of Vichy France.Quote
Believe what you want, but the fact remains that the Iraqi government is in charge of their country and we are being held accountable for are actions which are all closely scrutinized by the Iraqi government. What would I know though, not like I've been there or anything.
So who gets to conduct the trial of US troops who commit serious crimes in Iraq? Oh - it's the US military!Iraq doesn't have full control of it's own country - which makes it a puppet state.
Quote
Our government may have put the Iraqi government in place initially after the invasion
THAT is why it's a puppet government. No more need be said. Thanks for conceding the point....
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteThe concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
I will add that the concept of an independent government elected under a process designed by an occupying military power is also absurd. Iraq has both problems.Quote
Double check your facts, our military no longer operates in any capacity in Iraq without Iraqi approval.
Ha ha - that would be the agreement negotiated between the puppet government and the occupying military power, right?
You should have spent more time studying history, like the history of Vichy France.Quote
Believe what you want, but the fact remains that the Iraqi government is in charge of their country and we are being held accountable for are actions which are all closely scrutinized by the Iraqi government. What would I know though, not like I've been there or anything.
So who gets to conduct the trial of US troops who kill Iraqis? Oh - it's the US military!Quote
Our government may have put the Iraqi government in place initially after the invasion
THAT is why it's a puppet government. No more need be said. Thanks for conceding the point.
If you aren't going to back up your argument with anything apart from your personal opinion which is in no way based on any type of fact or personal experience than there is no point in dealing with you. You basically showed why my original post was suited perfectly for you.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
kallend 1,651
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
I will add that the concept of an independent government elected under a process designed by an occupying military power is also absurd. Iraq has both problems.Quote
Double check your facts, our military no longer operates in any capacity in Iraq without Iraqi approval.
Ha ha - that would be the agreement negotiated between the puppet government and the occupying military power, right?
You should have spent more time studying history, like the history of Vichy France.Quote
Believe what you want, but the fact remains that the Iraqi government is in charge of their country and we are being held accountable for are actions which are all closely scrutinized by the Iraqi government. What would I know though, not like I've been there or anything.
So who gets to conduct the trial of US troops who kill Iraqis? Oh - it's the US military!Quote
Our government may have put the Iraqi government in place initially after the invasion
THAT is why it's a puppet government. No more need be said. Thanks for conceding the point.
If you aren't going to back up your argument with anything apart from your personal opinion which is in no way based on any type of fact or personal experience than there is no point in dealing with you. You basically showed why my original post was suited perfectly for you.
As one of the occupying army, I'd expect you to defend yourself, but you might have made some effort to rebut the points instead of getting all emotional.
The fact remains that by any definition, the government of Iraq is NOT master in its own house.
The government of Iraq has no authority to control the transfer of occupier forces into and out of Iraq, no control of shipments, and the recent pact grants the occupying force immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts. Iraqi rule in Iraq is not complete while an occupying army is present.
The concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
IRAQ IS A US PUPPET.
(In Afghanistan, Karzai has even admitted to being a puppet)....
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteGive it up John. You'll never convince the Death WarriorsQuoteQuoteQuoteThe concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
I will add that the concept of an independent government elected under a process designed by an occupying military power is also absurd. Iraq has both problems.QuoteGive it u John. Youd'll never convince the brainwashe DEATH WARRIORS
Double check your facts, our military no longer operates in any capacity in Iraq without Iraqi approval.
Ha ha - that would be the agreement negotiated between the puppet government and the occupying military power, right?
You should have spent more time studying history, like the history of Vichy France.Quote
Believe what you want, but the fact remains that the Iraqi government is in charge of their country and we are being held accountable for are actions which are all closely scrutinized by the Iraqi government. What would I know though, not like I've been there or anything.
So who gets to conduct the trial of US troops who kill Iraqis? Oh - it's the US military!Quote
Our government may have put the Iraqi government in place initially after the invasion
THAT is why it's a puppet government. No more need be said. Thanks for conceding the point.
If you aren't going to back up your argument with anything apart from your personal opinion which is in no way based on any type of fact or personal experience than there is no point in dealing with you. You basically showed why my original post was suited perfectly for you.
As one of the occupying army, I'd expect you to defend yourself, but you might have made some effort to rebut the points instead of getting all emotional.
The fact remains that by any definition, the government of Iraq is NOT master in its own house.
The government of Iraq has no authority to control the transfer of occupier forces into and out of Iraq, no control of shipments, and the recent pact grants the occupying force immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts. Iraqi rule in Iraq is not complete while an occupying army is present.
The concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
IRAQ IS A US PUPPET.
(In Afghanistan, Karzai has even admitted to being a puttet).I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
Quote
....
If you aren't going to back up your argument with anything apart from your personal opinion which is in no way based on any type of fact or personal experience than there is no point in dealing with you. You basically showed why my original post was suited perfectly for you.
Do a search in the net. There are enough links "to back up .... "
dudeist skydiver # 3105
Quote
If you aren't going to back up your argument with anything apart from your personal opinion which is in no way based on any type of fact or personal experience than there is no point in dealing with you.
I've been barkin up that tree for months. Good luck.
--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.
mnealtx 0
QuoteOur government may have put the Iraqi government in place initially after the invasion
THAT is why it's a puppet government. No more need be said. Thanks for conceding the point.
And shortly thereafter, the Iraqis elected their OWN government - you may remember all those purple fingers. You don't get to re-write history to suit your own agenda, professor.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Amazon 7
QuoteGee and here I thought it was just a bunch of men with little dick's trying to be macho and pretend they were warriors....since they ran the last time a war rolled around When They Were Young and Weren't Soldiers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost as bad as a SERE instructor who has never seen combat running around talkin shit like they're a war hero.
Awww poor litle fella did we hit a nerve
Remember now.. you are the one of those who seems to believe in this Administration.... almost every last one of them believe they were too good to actually serve this country as you have done.
Quote
Remember now.. you are the one of those who seems to believe in this Administration.... almost every last one of them believe they were too good to actually serve this country as you have done.
Or maybe that's just not what they chose to do. How many people in the forming Obama administration have served?
Did you believe in the Clinton Administration and how many served (besides Monica)?
Some choose to serve in the military and some choose to serve through elected government. I would never say one is a better person than another because of their career choices.
--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.
kallend 1,651
QuoteQuoteOur government may have put the Iraqi government in place initially after the invasion
THAT is why it's a puppet government. No more need be said. Thanks for conceding the point.
And shortly thereafter, the Iraqis elected their OWN government - you may remember all those purple fingers. You don't get to re-write history to suit your own agenda, professor.
With whose troops providing "security" at the elections?
I'm sure Poland's elections were fair and free when Soviet troops were stationed in Poland. Ditto for Hungary, Czechoslovakia, E. Germany... Yep, all fair and free, none of them Soviet puppets.
The government of Iraq has no authority to control the transfer of occupier forces into and out of Iraq, no control of shipments, and the recent pact grants the occupying force immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts. Iraqi rule in Iraq is not complete while an occupying army is present.
It matters not whether the occupying power is Nazi Germany, the USSR, or the USA; the concept of an independent government in a country under military occupation by a foreign power, whose troops do not answer to said government, is SIMPLY ABSURD.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
I asked a question, you bit, I asked for clarification, and so on. But why is that you pro-invasion types always seem to feel if someone makes a comment against how something is being handled. They somehow are glad that america hasn't been attacked? I might as well say, "Did you want over 8,000 americans dead? Was the 3,000 in 2001 not enough for you?"
How many iraqi civillians have been killed then? The pentagon has said they don't track civillian casualties. And though there is some dispute about how many there is total, even the lowest estimates seem to run around the 100,000 mark. Even if was half that it sucks. But that's the cost of war. I just wish more Americans understood that when we went in because at the time, most of America seemed to think it would be an in and out job. Thanks to a sketchy but effective enough marketing job by our leaders.
I guess we're looking at the US attacks in different ways. But part of my point is that if we are doing so well at squelching terrorists, why are other countries being attacked? It's all spin. it's all a moving agenda. That's all this war has been about.
They have WMD's.
- Uhm, we don't know that for sure. We can't find anything.
But he killed his own people!
- Uhm, that hasn't been proven yet. In fact it seems that the gas used was more the type that Iran was using at the time. It's not to say it couldn't happen. But we don't know for sure.
But we need to spread democracy and liberate iraqi people. And look , now that we're there, look at all of the terrorists!
- But they weren't here before we went in.
This can't be solved on dropzone.com.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites