mnealtx 0 #151 November 30, 2008 QuoteYou may believe that gun proliferation is great, but i disagree. Whereas culture may be a factor, gun availability is probable the biggest factor in the crime rate in the U.S. (ending up in deaths) So prove it - you'll get millions from the VPC and Brady campaigns, because they've been trying to find proof of it for years. QuoteYou may argue that if a criminal wants really bad a gun he is going to get it, but in Spain, where guns are not yet as readily available as in the U.S. it is not the case. This is not proof that guns cause crime. QuoteSince there is not that much ofert of handweapons the price is quite high, and since a knife usually does its job as well as a gun for most crime purposes not very many criminals want to spend that much money on a gun. And here you prove that guns aren't causing crime. QuoteSo gun proliferation in society will come back to bite the individual when most of the crimes are commited with a gun rather than a knife, taking in considerations that even if you are packing heat the survability against a gun is much lower than against a knife. Still not proof, sorry.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #152 November 30, 2008 I was an Evil Jeanne yesterday.... I am a corrupting influence... I took a visiting Canadian guy from Toronto, who had never even touched a gun, out to the firing range... I gave him some instruction,,,,proper range etiquette...handling.... and use. We then hung up a target ran it down range to the 50 ft mark... and I showed him how to fire my favorite purse gun. I decided I would just do the head at 50 ft... all six right in the head...I was a little off... the eyes are going a little for use with iron sites. My group was only about 5"( My arms just are not long enough anymore.) I used to be better with the .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk. I unloaded the brass and had him handle the weapon again get a sight picture....stance.... holding... breathing. and what to expect. I then had him load... and fire for center mass. The kid is a good shot... all 6 in a 7" circle . I dont think that was too bad as a start first time shooter We worked on it.... compensation for where he aimed and where it was hitting... I also had to slap him up side the head to quit squinting and closing one eye... and got it down to 3 to 4" group I think he likes shootingWe spent the day shooting some of my other goodies as well... He liked my pistol grip 12 gauge loaded with buck,slug,buck,slug,buck. all 3" MagnumsHey... I LIKEEE MagnumsI think he was afraid to shoot that one..after he saw me fire it... its an aquired taste I guess... I know what to expect as far as the recoil so I dont worry about the recoil in front of my face when aiming.... but I think he was afraid it would bust him in the chops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #153 November 30, 2008 Quote I was an Evil Jeanne yesterday.... And this is unusual, how? Quote I am a corrupting influence... I took a visiting Canadian guy from Toronto, who had never even touched a gun, out to the firing range... Attagirl!! "Each one teach one" Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #154 November 30, 2008 I also taught him about cleaning guns at the end of the day... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #155 November 30, 2008 Quote I also taught him about cleaning guns at the end of the day Yup, my wife and I just got back from the range (weather's too crappy for jumping today) and she informed me that even though SHE was the one shooting the 1911, I am the one that will be cleaning it. Oh well, at least I was able to put a couple hundred .223 down range.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #156 December 1, 2008 Quotethey're probably more scared of you than they are of guns... They take offense and are moved by the derisive stridency, which they find scary because it seems so sociopathic. Let's see, when I use the phrase "your boy" in the same sentence with the word "Obama", that makes me a racist. And now when I use the word "gun-o-phobe", I'm a sociopath whom people fear. This is what I'm talking about with people who are lost to reason. If they want to think like that, that's their business. But I'm not going to change my ways because a few nuts misinterpret my words into something hideously wrong. The problem is not with me, but rather with the people who are so quick to misinterpret. The world is full of kooks; you can't make 'em all happy, and I'm not going to waste my time trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #157 December 1, 2008 Quotegun availability is probable the biggest factor in the crime rate in the U.S. Addendum to my previous message, above. And Botellines is a prime example of the futility of trying to use facts and logic with a gun-o-phobe. Facts and logic have been presented to him repeatedly of the falsity of his idea, above. And yet, he continues to parrot the line over and over again. So why worry about the sensitivities of people that can't even do something basic like listen to reason? The only thing that will make such a person wake up to the truth is for a criminal to whack them over the head with a club - then, just maybe, they'll start thinking that a gun might be a good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #158 December 1, 2008 Quote I took a visiting Canadian guy from Toronto, who had never even touched a gun, out to the firing range... Quote at least I was able to put a couple hundred .223 down range. I shot in a WWII rifle match Saturday morning. But I had a batch of ammo that wasn't working in my M1 Carbine - 60% were duds. I think the primers are too hard. Never had that problem before with that rifle. So I had to abandon the first stage of fire. Then another shooter loaned me a spare M1 Garand. I shot that starting with the rapid-fire stages; 10-shot strings, and had to do that without having a clue what the zero was on that rifle. So the first group was 14" left, and then I adjusted inward from there. My scores were terrible, but at least I was shooting and having fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #159 December 1, 2008 QuoteThis is one of those situations in that what is good for the person as an individual may not be good for the society as a whole. And incidentally when something is bad (or not good) for the society it ends up affecting the individuals. Basically it's a PERSONAL choice. You can choose to REGISTER and subject your past to review to be granted what should be a RIGHT to personal safety. But... ultimately I have to admit that you will never "get it" and arguing with you about this is pointless. You do not understand and trying to explain it over the internet to someone in a completely different culture. It's a hard sell. If you grew up in this environment, if you lived here, if you could see with my eyes.... you might be able to understand better. Likewise if I lived in a country that feared and hated firearms, I might have a different opinion of them as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #160 December 1, 2008 As others have said, laws regarding carrying concealed weapons vary much from place to place in the USA. That said, I suspect that there are a whole lot more guns on the streets (in the hands of both the good guys and the bad guys) than most folks expect. The very fact that it is hard to tell who is carrying is exactly why conceled carry laws are a deterrent to crime. If the criminal has no idea which of the law abiding citizens around him is carrying .... it gives him pause before committing crime. You might find this interesting reading about WHY some folks carry: http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.htmlThe choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #161 December 1, 2008 QuoteQuotethey're probably more scared of you than they are of guns... They take offense and are moved by the derisive stridency, which they find scary because it seems so sociopathic. Let's see, when I use the phrase "your boy" in the same sentence with the word "Obama", that makes me a racist. Nah, I wasn't part of that bandwagon, and I didn't agree that you'd made a racial reference. And now when I use the word "gun-o-phobe", I'm a sociopath whom people fear. Not exactly. Your stridency makes people think your remarks are motivated as much by sociopathy as by ideology; and in their minds (sociopathy + guns = scary guy). This is what I'm talking about with people who are lost to reason. If they want to think like that, that's their business. But I'm not going to change my ways because a few nuts misinterpret my words into something hideously wrong. The problem is not with me, but rather with the people who are so quick to misinterpret. The world is full of kooks; you can't make 'em all happy, and I'm not going to waste my time trying. As I said before, they're not kooks, they're not nuts, and they're not lost to reason. Your stridency makes them fear that you are kook (no PA intended here by me). You want an example of a staunch gun rights advocate who isn't scary-strident? Look at some of Douva's long, thoughtful posts on the subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #162 December 1, 2008 Snipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,646 #163 December 1, 2008 QuoteSnipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer. Yeah - that's what happens when you flood a place with illegal guns.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #164 December 1, 2008 Quote Yup, my wife and I just got back from the range (weather's too crappy for jumping today) and she informed me that even though SHE was the one shooting the 1911, I am the one that will be cleaning it. Oh well, at least I was able to put a couple hundred .223 down range. Kim loves shooting her HD shottie and my sig .40, the 9X18, .38 sp, and the AR but told me that she shoots, i clean. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,646 #165 December 1, 2008 Quote As others have said, laws regarding carrying concealed weapons vary much from place to place in the USA. That said, I suspect that there are a whole lot more guns on the streets (in the hands of both the good guys and the bad guys) than most folks expect. The very fact that it is hard to tell who is carrying is exactly why conceled carry laws are a deterrent to crime. If the criminal has no idea which of the law abiding citizens around him is carrying .... it gives him pause before committing crime. You might find this interesting reading about WHY some folks carry: http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html Of course, there's always this risk.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #166 December 1, 2008 Quote Kim loves shooting her HD shottie and my sig .40, the 9X18, .38 sp, and the AR but told me that she shoots, i clean. Do you have a reciprocal agreement for at home after dinner: you eat, she washes dishes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #167 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote Snipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer. Yeah - that's what happens when you flood a place with illegal guns. And someday, you may even find proof that it's the presence of the guns causing the crime and not the criminals. After all, it's the presence of guns, knives and sticks over in the UK that's causing all their crime, right? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #168 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote Kim loves shooting her HD shottie and my sig .40, the 9X18, .38 sp, and the AR but told me that she shoots, i clean. Do you have a reciprocal agreement for at home after dinner: you eat, she washes dishes? I cook, she washes dishes. She cooks, i wash dishes. About as close as it ever got was when i was still jumping, I jump and video, she packed. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,646 #169 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Snipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer. Yeah - that's what happens when you flood a place with illegal guns. And someday, you may even find proof that it's the presence of the guns causing the crime and not the criminals. After all, it's the presence of guns, knives and sticks over in the UK that's causing all their crime, right? Compared the UK's homicide stats against the US's recently? Criminals with guns are much more of a problem than criminals armed with fresh fruit.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #170 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote And someday, you may even find proof that it's the presence of the guns causing the crime and not the criminals. After all, it's the presence of guns, knives and sticks over in the UK that's causing all their crime, right? Compared the UK's homicide stats against the US's recently? Criminals with guns are much more of a problem than criminals armed with fresh fruit. Wow - fresh fruit causes crime now??? Well, *THAT* is certainly going to cause a shakeup in the FDA food pyramid!! ETA: With your logic of tools causing crime, why do they have any crime at all, now, with the guns and knives and sticks banned?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #171 December 1, 2008 Quote But... ultimately I have to admit that you will never "get it" and arguing with you about this is pointless. You do not understand and trying to explain it over the internet to someone in a completely different culture. It's a hard sell. If you grew up in this environment, if you lived here, if you could see with my eyes.... you might be able to understand better. Likewise if I lived in a country that feared and hated firearms, I might have a different opinion of them as well. You are way off the mark here. It is not that i don´t understand, it is that you fail to convince me otherwise. There is a big diference. It is not a cultural problem either, first of all, there is many american that think like me. Besides, i know your culture pretty well, i have lived in the U.S, been engaged for many years to an american woman, i have even shooted a gun while living there. Somehow i think that you have much less experience about my culture than i have about yours. In first place, we neither hate nor fear guns. We regard them as a tool, and a tool that suceds at doing what is designed to do which is to kill people. No more and no less. In the other hand it seems many of you consider guns more a toy than a tool. We can see prove of this on most of John Richs´s posts. By the way, do you usually teach young kids how to use chainsaws, welders and power drillers, because those are also tools. Maybe they are not as "fun" to use as guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #172 December 1, 2008 QuoteQuote But... ultimately I have to admit that you will never "get it" and arguing with you about this is pointless. You do not understand and trying to explain it over the internet to someone in a completely different culture. It's a hard sell. If you grew up in this environment, if you lived here, if you could see with my eyes.... you might be able to understand better. Likewise if I lived in a country that feared and hated firearms, I might have a different opinion of them as well. You are way off the mark here. It is not that i don´t understand, it is that you fail to convince me otherwise. There is a big diference. It is not a cultural problem either, first of all, there is many american that think like me. Besides, i know your culture pretty well, i have lived in the U.S, been engaged for many years to an american woman, i have even shooted a gun while living there. Somehow i think that you have much less experience about my culture than i have about yours. In first place, we neither hate nor fear guns. We regard them as a tool, and a tool that suceds at doing what is designed to do which is to kill people. No more and no less. In the other hand it seems many of you consider guns more a toy than a tool. We can see prove of this on most of John Richs´s posts. By the way, do you usually teach young kids how to use chainsaws, welders and power drillers, because those are also tools. Maybe they are not as "fun" to use as guns. And you STILL haven't proven that the tool causes the crime. Fail.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #173 December 1, 2008 QuoteTo be fair, there's a pretty big difference in training isn't there? I mean aren't those "military assault rifle" the same weapons used by the troops who were forced to be in the military by law and therefore pretty well trained in their use. You entire argument seems to support the right of the people to own them then. Your argument shows that an assault weapon is an object, not an evil device."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #174 December 1, 2008 Quote And Botellines is a prime example of the futility of trying to use facts and logic with a gun-o-phobe. Facts and logic have been presented to him repeatedly of the falsity of his idea, above. And yet, he continues to parrot the line over and over again. So why worry about the sensitivities of people that can't even do something basic like listen to reason? The only thing that will make such a person wake up to the truth is for a criminal to whack them over the head with a club - then, just maybe, they'll start thinking that a gun might be a good idea. Don´t be silly john, Your facts are cherry picked among the zillions of statistics on the net, and your logic is flawed. How can you expect to convince a non-NRA member with those arguments. Listening to your reasons is not basic, it takes a lot of imagination, faith, and a NRA card membership, and i am afraid i am not ready for it. However, where you willing to consider that a gun is not the solution to any and all the problems, i am sure we could find some middle ground. Don´t worry about my sensitivities, if you don´t mind me calling you gun-nut, i can live being a gun-o-phobe. Sadly the only way for the gun-nuts to realize that gun proliferation is not a good thing is when they receive a bullet in the head. Too bad they will not have much time to think about their mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #175 December 1, 2008 QuoteThis is one of those situations in that what is good for the person as an individual may not be good for the society as a whole. And incidentally when something is bad (or not good) for the society it ends up affecting the individuals. To prove that, you would have to produce data that states that CCW people are more likely to commit violent crimes. That data does not exist; in fact the data says the opposite. I do not see how anti gun folks cannot make the simple connection that legal gun owners are not the problem."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 7 of 10 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mnealtx 0 #162 December 1, 2008 Snipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,646 #163 December 1, 2008 QuoteSnipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer. Yeah - that's what happens when you flood a place with illegal guns.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #164 December 1, 2008 Quote Yup, my wife and I just got back from the range (weather's too crappy for jumping today) and she informed me that even though SHE was the one shooting the 1911, I am the one that will be cleaning it. Oh well, at least I was able to put a couple hundred .223 down range. Kim loves shooting her HD shottie and my sig .40, the 9X18, .38 sp, and the AR but told me that she shoots, i clean. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,646 #165 December 1, 2008 Quote As others have said, laws regarding carrying concealed weapons vary much from place to place in the USA. That said, I suspect that there are a whole lot more guns on the streets (in the hands of both the good guys and the bad guys) than most folks expect. The very fact that it is hard to tell who is carrying is exactly why conceled carry laws are a deterrent to crime. If the criminal has no idea which of the law abiding citizens around him is carrying .... it gives him pause before committing crime. You might find this interesting reading about WHY some folks carry: http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html Of course, there's always this risk.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #166 December 1, 2008 Quote Kim loves shooting her HD shottie and my sig .40, the 9X18, .38 sp, and the AR but told me that she shoots, i clean. Do you have a reciprocal agreement for at home after dinner: you eat, she washes dishes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #167 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote Snipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer. Yeah - that's what happens when you flood a place with illegal guns. And someday, you may even find proof that it's the presence of the guns causing the crime and not the criminals. After all, it's the presence of guns, knives and sticks over in the UK that's causing all their crime, right? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #168 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote Kim loves shooting her HD shottie and my sig .40, the 9X18, .38 sp, and the AR but told me that she shoots, i clean. Do you have a reciprocal agreement for at home after dinner: you eat, she washes dishes? I cook, she washes dishes. She cooks, i wash dishes. About as close as it ever got was when i was still jumping, I jump and video, she packed. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,646 #169 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Snipped from another thread: [kallend] How are Texas, Georgia and Florida homicides holding up? How is DC's holding up? Damn...roughly 6 times the national rate - bummer. Yeah - that's what happens when you flood a place with illegal guns. And someday, you may even find proof that it's the presence of the guns causing the crime and not the criminals. After all, it's the presence of guns, knives and sticks over in the UK that's causing all their crime, right? Compared the UK's homicide stats against the US's recently? Criminals with guns are much more of a problem than criminals armed with fresh fruit.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #170 December 1, 2008 Quote Quote And someday, you may even find proof that it's the presence of the guns causing the crime and not the criminals. After all, it's the presence of guns, knives and sticks over in the UK that's causing all their crime, right? Compared the UK's homicide stats against the US's recently? Criminals with guns are much more of a problem than criminals armed with fresh fruit. Wow - fresh fruit causes crime now??? Well, *THAT* is certainly going to cause a shakeup in the FDA food pyramid!! ETA: With your logic of tools causing crime, why do they have any crime at all, now, with the guns and knives and sticks banned?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #171 December 1, 2008 Quote But... ultimately I have to admit that you will never "get it" and arguing with you about this is pointless. You do not understand and trying to explain it over the internet to someone in a completely different culture. It's a hard sell. If you grew up in this environment, if you lived here, if you could see with my eyes.... you might be able to understand better. Likewise if I lived in a country that feared and hated firearms, I might have a different opinion of them as well. You are way off the mark here. It is not that i don´t understand, it is that you fail to convince me otherwise. There is a big diference. It is not a cultural problem either, first of all, there is many american that think like me. Besides, i know your culture pretty well, i have lived in the U.S, been engaged for many years to an american woman, i have even shooted a gun while living there. Somehow i think that you have much less experience about my culture than i have about yours. In first place, we neither hate nor fear guns. We regard them as a tool, and a tool that suceds at doing what is designed to do which is to kill people. No more and no less. In the other hand it seems many of you consider guns more a toy than a tool. We can see prove of this on most of John Richs´s posts. By the way, do you usually teach young kids how to use chainsaws, welders and power drillers, because those are also tools. Maybe they are not as "fun" to use as guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #172 December 1, 2008 QuoteQuote But... ultimately I have to admit that you will never "get it" and arguing with you about this is pointless. You do not understand and trying to explain it over the internet to someone in a completely different culture. It's a hard sell. If you grew up in this environment, if you lived here, if you could see with my eyes.... you might be able to understand better. Likewise if I lived in a country that feared and hated firearms, I might have a different opinion of them as well. You are way off the mark here. It is not that i don´t understand, it is that you fail to convince me otherwise. There is a big diference. It is not a cultural problem either, first of all, there is many american that think like me. Besides, i know your culture pretty well, i have lived in the U.S, been engaged for many years to an american woman, i have even shooted a gun while living there. Somehow i think that you have much less experience about my culture than i have about yours. In first place, we neither hate nor fear guns. We regard them as a tool, and a tool that suceds at doing what is designed to do which is to kill people. No more and no less. In the other hand it seems many of you consider guns more a toy than a tool. We can see prove of this on most of John Richs´s posts. By the way, do you usually teach young kids how to use chainsaws, welders and power drillers, because those are also tools. Maybe they are not as "fun" to use as guns. And you STILL haven't proven that the tool causes the crime. Fail.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #173 December 1, 2008 QuoteTo be fair, there's a pretty big difference in training isn't there? I mean aren't those "military assault rifle" the same weapons used by the troops who were forced to be in the military by law and therefore pretty well trained in their use. You entire argument seems to support the right of the people to own them then. Your argument shows that an assault weapon is an object, not an evil device."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #174 December 1, 2008 Quote And Botellines is a prime example of the futility of trying to use facts and logic with a gun-o-phobe. Facts and logic have been presented to him repeatedly of the falsity of his idea, above. And yet, he continues to parrot the line over and over again. So why worry about the sensitivities of people that can't even do something basic like listen to reason? The only thing that will make such a person wake up to the truth is for a criminal to whack them over the head with a club - then, just maybe, they'll start thinking that a gun might be a good idea. Don´t be silly john, Your facts are cherry picked among the zillions of statistics on the net, and your logic is flawed. How can you expect to convince a non-NRA member with those arguments. Listening to your reasons is not basic, it takes a lot of imagination, faith, and a NRA card membership, and i am afraid i am not ready for it. However, where you willing to consider that a gun is not the solution to any and all the problems, i am sure we could find some middle ground. Don´t worry about my sensitivities, if you don´t mind me calling you gun-nut, i can live being a gun-o-phobe. Sadly the only way for the gun-nuts to realize that gun proliferation is not a good thing is when they receive a bullet in the head. Too bad they will not have much time to think about their mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #175 December 1, 2008 QuoteThis is one of those situations in that what is good for the person as an individual may not be good for the society as a whole. And incidentally when something is bad (or not good) for the society it ends up affecting the individuals. To prove that, you would have to produce data that states that CCW people are more likely to commit violent crimes. That data does not exist; in fact the data says the opposite. I do not see how anti gun folks cannot make the simple connection that legal gun owners are not the problem."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
