Palin did a good job

[Amazon 7]

Dearest Robin,

Its ok I forgive you for your disgusting portrayals in stating your position in PM's... I really am sorry but I do not need language like that so I block people who post suc.h things

I realize you just cant help yourself, Bless your heart

[MikeForsythe 0]

Quote

Bless your heart

Okay, that is it, now I know that someone else is using Jeanne's computer

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[robinheid 0]

Dearest Jeanne,

I said nothing in my PMs to you that I haven't restated here, so the readers of this thread can judge for themselves if what I sent you was "disgusting.".

That you find reality "disgusting" simply reinforces my point: It's kinda hard to make an informed "choice" about anything if you are not willing to face the reality attendant to those choices.

You simply dismiss as "disgusting" anything that might make you face up to the fact that:

* abortioin is homicide,

* partial birth abortion in particular, and

* letting living babies die unhelped because they were supposed to die during the abortion

is part and parcel of what you get when you choose the Messiah as your new leader... and his delightful wife who calls stabbing living babies in their skulls a "procedure" (I have the fundraising letter she sent out for anyone who'd like to see it).

That's the bottom line here, dear Jeanne. It seems as if you are afraid to face reality because, kind soul that you probably are in most any other way, it rocks your world to even contemplate the notion that fetuses are human.

BUt that's like jumping out the door thinking you can never die on a skydive. Nice warm fuzzy fiction, but not exactly in tune with the world as it truly is.

Really, though, you ought to send me an email or unblock your PM. I really would like you to see what provoked an enormous amount of thought among all the pro-choice women who were the editors who... chose to publish it.

best regards,

robin

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[Amazon 7]

In your words

Quote

it is OK to stab a half-born baby in the skull with scissors and then suck its brains out - and if she agreed with Hussein Obama that it is OK to force doctors to let a baby who survived an abortion die in the sink instead of rendering aid and assistance.

Got some pictures to go along with that.... I am sure some of your "pro-life" anti-abortion buddies can help you out with some...they parade around with them seeking to shock and sicken people with their depravity. Usually the same people decry showing smut to young people.. yet here these people are.. showing things that are even worse... to our young.

Sorry but I find that arguement sick and twisted beyond belief.

It is a specious arguement at best...since partial birth abrtions are the rarest of the rare.. and you know it.

SO.. since you are not anti abortion... did I get that right?????... since you want to press this issue....when is a baby a baby...When is a fetus a fetus??????? Conception???

I find those who proclaim to be pro-life.. to be also pro-war and pro death on almost all other issues.....gee why is that???

[robinheid 0]

Serial killers and jeffrey dahmer types are also the rarest of the rare among murderers, but let's grant your point...

"Partial birth" homicide aside," the average pre-natal homicide takes place after there are arms and legs and heads and beating hearts - all of which get sucked out of your body with a vacuum cleaner. This is not rare but _standard_ procedure - 40 million and counting since 1973.

That is, in fact, what an abortion is - homicide by dismemberment of a human being.

We call al qaeda terrorists beasts for chopping off the heads of living human beings, but for some reason sucking the head off of a fetus is just a "procedure" and a "choice."

You can't win on this one, dear Jeanne. I brought up "partial birth" homcide and leaving living babies to die after they survived an abortion just to see how far you take this "choice-without-considering-reality" thing, and how far you support the Messiah - whose lefty cohorts even run from him on the latter.

As to when life begins, in terms of the legal justification for abortion i present in my essay, conception is the simplest marker. This of course is anathema to most pro-abortion rights types because they are terrified that if they grant humanity to a fetus (even if they are "partially born"), then their rights to abortion will be taken away.

My premise eliminates this concern; it grants humanity to fetuses (as we have over the centuries granted humanity to blacks, chinese, the irish, and women), but at the same time puts fetuses under the jurisdiction of long-codified and observed common law with regard to self defense.

As for your final "finding," I personally oppose the death penalty as administered by the state; i think that if the death penalty is put at the point of attack, there will be fewer attacks and fewer deaths, but if you give the state even one "reason" to kill its own citizens, it will soon find other "reasons."

As a veteran of the 82d Airborne and a scholar of military theory, policy and application, particularly in the area of counterterrorism and special operations, I find that most times in history the countries that are too quick to pull triggers end up get taken out by their own blowback.

I also find that most militarist assholes do not wear military uniforms; they wear pinstripe suits... like the Messiah, for example. He wants to put more troops into afghanistan and make that war bigger and attack pakistan -- a muslim country with nuclear weapons and 120 million people -- just becaise we _might_ be able to take out one bad guy. _Real_ smart use of american power. Utterly brilliant.

But back atcha for a moment on your "finding;" I have one too. Why is it that so many anti-war and anti-death-on-almost-all-other-issues types don't seem to mind that through pre-natal homicide we have killed more than 40 MILLION innocent human beings since 1973?

robin

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[Amazon 7]

Quote

But back atcha for a moment on your "finding;" I have one too. Why is it that so many anti-war and anti-death-on-almost-all-other-issues types don't seem to mind that through pre-natal homicide we have killed more than 40 MILLION innocent human beings since 1973?

Want to guess how many BILLIONS of fertilized human eggs never implant.???

....Want to guess how many BILLIONS of human fetuses spontaneously abort because there is something not right with them???

How many BILLIONS of your sacred sperm have landed on the floor??

Its very simple.. because YOU.. do not have the RIGHT to tell ANY woman that we have to bear YOUR child.

Personaly I am very glad that women have the right to choose when to bring a child into the world and to provide it with a loving environment in which to raise it and not like it has been for most of human history.

Until you walk a lifetime in OUR shoes...you dont get that right.

But dude.. we get it... just like Caribou Barbie.... who would not even allow a woman who is raped or has been impregnated by a "loving" relative".... you want a woman to bear that fetus for you.. no matter what.


You remind me very much of a former friend.. who bemoaned the loss of so many white babies who could be adopeted .. because of abortion. I wrote her off right then and there for that statement.

And with that... I had you pegged from your PM's.. I have a very short list of people who I have turned off PM's from.. and I now turn off your ravings from the fringe right wing and we have ZERO to discuss further.,

[mnealtx 0]

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The one true gaffe I would point to was when she agreed with Cheney's position that the VP incorporates both the executive and legislative branch. After all that's gone on in the past administration, that statement was genuinely chilling. If she doesn't retract it, the Dems will make her pay.

Wow - I never realized that it was only in the last 8 years that the VP acts as the agent of the President - thanks for clearing that up for us.

Does the added emphasis help?

Perhaps you need to re-read the Constitution - the VP's duty IS Legislative, as President of the Congress. Any executive duties a VP may have is at the whim of the sitting President. The executive role of the VP (such as it is) started in the 70's and has continued to this day.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

So you're saying if she had years of experience in DC, you'd be good with that?

Where's the change part again???

Someone without all that DC experience and a new and fresh approach and attitude?

We *hope* we'll have enough *change* left from our paychecks to get the Happy Meal at McD's once a week?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Which would be fine with me too. Call it a marriag if it makes people feel better about their marriage-with-an-E. The important thing is that people are given the same rights under the law.

If this "civil union" is something like domestic partnership, which is basically not really regulated, they cannot have the same rights. If there are no requirements to have only one "spouse", or to terminate previous partnership before acquiring another one, the things will go funny pretty soon. Especially in estate and immigration law.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

Re: "billions of eggs and sperm" - this is germane to the sub-conversation, how?

Per CDC stats (2003), approximately 1.8% of all abortions were considered 'late-term'. That works out to approximately 11874 of the 848163 abortions performed in 2003.

Per a 1995 report to Congress, dilation and extraction is a 'normal' procedure between 21-25 weeks gestational age.

How many of those ~12k 'late' abortions are done via this procedure is not reported by the CDC.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jraf 0]

Open letter to robinheid:

Dear Robin Moses/Hussein/Adolf Heid:

You started jumping 33 years ago, when I was about 6. You are obviously much senior to me and people say that with age comes wisdom.

You must have been privy to the actions of the domestic terrorists that Sister Sarah mentioned last morning while being surrounded by her many mules/assess (A senior citizen like you should remember the movie). It is both funny and sad that the RNC allows its name to be associated with such desperate and daft attempts to discredit the DNC candidate. You may dislike Barack Obama for the fact that he is black, that his father was not born here, for the fact that he has muslim ancestry, because he is a liberal or ny other numbers of reasons. However if you agree with Sister Sarah and her white haired mule with regards to the latest accusation you bring yourself to the intellectual level of an amoeba.

As a senoir citizen you will remember the Black Panthers, Weather Underground or any other group that in that turbulent period of US history has attempted to change national policy by armed struggle. These were turbulent yet extremely formative years to our country. Now for better or worse but they have helped us become who we are today and most of those accused of "domestic terrorosm" during the Vietnam era became important contributing members of our society. This is true with regards to Bill Ayers, a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois, it is true for my professor of Labor Law at the graduate program I attended.

Sarah Palin blurts out talking points given to her by speachwriters without even looking at the root of their knowledge. She is an efficient teleprompter reader which makes her competent enough to be the weather person at a local alaskan TV station. If you asked her a question on the social turbulences of the 60's and 70's in the United States - 'ya betcha she would have to get right back to ya' on the topic.

I preffer to pay more taxes with Barack Obama at the helm of our nation than to pay no taxes at all with the 'graduated thrid from bottom of my class, so got shot down real fast' John McCain as president. At least with Obama's leadership my kids stand a chance to live in a free and leading country. When it comes to McCain - his kids will be living on their private island in the Bahamas while mine will manufacutring shoes and plastic xtrusion toys in a Chinese owned factory.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[mnealtx 0]

Sweet - you can sign your kids up at singforchange.com and they can sign paens to the Dear Leader Obama.

I mean, might as well brainwash them as well as YOU are, right?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 18]

If you want a more socialist country, then by all means, support that guy

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[likearock 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

The one true gaffe I would point to was when she agreed with Cheney's position that the VP incorporates both the executive and legislative branch. After all that's gone on in the past administration, that statement was genuinely chilling. If she doesn't retract it, the Dems will make her pay.

Wow - I never realized that it was only in the last 8 years that the VP acts as the agent of the President - thanks for clearing that up for us.

Does the added emphasis help?

Perhaps you need to re-read the Constitution - the VP's duty IS Legislative, as President of the Congress.

Right. And up until recently that role has been generally restricted to acting as a tie-breaker in votes.

I'll leave it up to the American people as to how much enthusiasm they have for the more expansive role advocated by Cheney and Palin.

[jraf 0]

Quote

If you want a more socialist country, then by all means, support that guy

First of all let us distinguish between socialism and social responsibility. LEt's looks at just one aspect - health insurance. I am well educated and am able to care relatively well for the hordes of children that I have. As I run a small business I am well aware of the costs of health insurance. I am also well aware of the limitiations insurance companies pose on you. I am once again lucky - I am at a good age and of perfect health. The travesty is that while we are one of the few top technically developed countries in the world whith an infrastructure second to none, over 50 million (that is 50,000,000) of our fellow citizens HAVE NO FORM OF HEALTH INSURANCE!!! That means that they get no preventive health checkups, no mammographs, no cholesterol measures nothing! If they have a mishap they will get the basic care as hospitals will admitt them, but the following health bills will drive them into bankruptcy, make them loose whatever they have. If you ask me if we need more social responsibility in this country the answer is YES. Liberalism per definition is incribed into the constitution of the United States. Aside for all else it is the Government for the people and by the people. In that definition, for the people means that the government has certain responsibilities towards the citizens. In today's eveloved economic and social systems that means taking care of the BASIC needs of the citizens and health care is one of them.

Socialism calls for collective ownership and administration of means of production. I strongly believe that the Democratic National Convention could not be further from suggesting that. Social responsibility however is a sign of developed societies. I may be an atheist but I am the first one to say that we have a responsibilitie for those lesser brothers of ours. That is what differenciates us from animals.

I am not calling for a larger government - as a matter of fact I am calling for a smaller and more efficient government. I want the DoH to provide health services - real heath services for all. I want the DoD to provide defense for us and not spread democracy to Iraq - I could not care less about Iraq. I want an efficient, reasonable and effective policing organization without the overgrown, overstaffed, overbudgeted, self important and incompetent DHS. I want a modern efficient, technically competent society with a free market economy, leading education, health care and infrastructure. I want strict separation of church and state. I want absolute fredom of religion and expression. I want us to be the leaders of the world again, brecause we are falling behind on all fronts - military, financial and social. As long as out leaders have lobbyists for foreign powers as their closests adivsors (John McCains entire campaign leadership is - please check if you think I am wrong) we are going to get nowhere. As long as our political leaders put their religion before state we will fail. America is not a country of evangelical christians who earn m ore that $500,000 a year. We are a multi religious, multi cultural society. This is what makes us rich, this is part of the success of this country. If Sarah Palin believes in witchcraft and the conception of women from a man's rib, that is fine - as long as she does that in the privacy of her religious beliefs. Once she mixes her cult with national policy she automatically steps agains the basic pronciples of this contry. Call me brainwashed, or call me a carefull scion of our constitution.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

I'll leave it up to the American people as to how much enthusiasm they have for the more expansive role advocated by Cheney and Palin.

Despite the fact that the VP role has expanded since Mondale under Carter 1977-80, remember that the exception to that trend was Dan Quayle's minimalist role in the Bush-1 administration, due in large part because he was so ill-respected, not to mention his youth - only age 41 when he became VP, and the large gulf between his and Bush-1's ages (24 years). If McCain wins , I'd predict that Palin's role as VP would be much more like Quayle than like that of Mondale, Gore or Cheney.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

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If you want a more socialist country, then by all means, support that guy

First of all let us distinguish between socialism and social responsibility. I have, YOU do not seem to be able to LEt's looks at just one aspect - health insurance. I am well educated and am able to care relatively well for the hordes of children that I have. As I run a small business I am well aware of the costs of health insurance. I am also well aware of the limitiations insurance companies pose on you. Like state mandates and restrictions of the ability to allow compainies to sell across state lines to offer people affordable programs not limited by government control? Like those limitations? I am once again lucky - I am at a good age and of perfect health. The travesty is that while we are one of the few top technically developed countries in the world whith an infrastructure second to none, over 50 million (that is 50,000,000) of our fellow citizens HAVE NO FORM OF HEALTH INSURANCE!!! This number is a spin but, for the case of this post I will give it to you. That being said, none of those you list will be turned away from ER when hurt or sick. YOu and I already pay for them. If we want to pay more, just let the government run itThat means that they get no preventive health checkups, no mammographs, no cholesterol measures nothing! If they have a mishap they will get the basic care as hospitals will admitt them, but the following health bills will drive them into bankruptcy, make them loose whatever they have. If you ask me if we need more social responsibilitysocailism is what you propose. Nothing sort of it either in this country the answer is YES. Liberalism per definition is incribed into the constitution of the United States. Aside for all else it is the Government for the people and by the people. In that definition, for the people means that the government has certain responsibilities towards the citizens. In today's eveloved economic and social systems that means taking care of the BASIC needs of the citizens and health care is one of them.No, it is not

Socialism calls for collective ownership and administration of means of production.You should know as that is what you strive for here I strongly believe that the Democratic National Convention could not be further from suggesting that. Social responsibility however is a sign of developed societies. Give me a break I may be an atheist but I am the first one to say that we have a responsibilitie for those lesser brothers of ours. That is what differenciates us from animals.

I am not calling for a larger government sorry, that is not true- as a matter of fact I am calling for a smaller and more efficient government. I want the DoH to provide health services - real heath services for all. I want the DoD to provide defense for us and not spread democracy to Iraq - I could not care less about Iraq. I want an efficient, reasonable and effective policing organization without the overgrown, overstaffed, overbudgeted, self important and incompetent DHS. I want a modern efficient, technically competent society with a free market economy, leading education, health care and infrastructure. I want strict separation of church and state.You wish to further damage what the framers of the Constitution intended. I fully understand that I want absolute fredom of religion and expression. No you dont. You wish to use governement and your perverted church and state definition to further you belief as to how it should work I want us to be the leaders of the world again, we still are despite the shit those like you spread brecause we are falling behind on all fronts - military, financial and social. As long as out leaders have lobbyists for foreign powers as their closests adivsors (John McCains entire campaign leadership is - please check if you think I am wrong)as is Obamas for the most part. Just some of his are convicted criminals Reines comes to mind we are going to get nowhere. To a point we do agree here As long as our political leaders put their religion before state we will fail.Your opinion, not that of all of the US as you would like to see America is not a country of evangelical christians who earn m ore that $500,000 a year. We are a multi religious, multi cultural society.We are Americans first. Hyphinated titles are part of the PC bull shit that is tearing this country apart. Multi culturism is a destructive part of it This is what makes us rich, this is part of the success of this country. We are diverse, yes, but we are americans first If Sarah Palin believes in witchcraft and the conception of women from a man's rib, that is fine - as long as she does that in the privacy of her religious beliefs. Once she mixes her cult with national policy she automatically steps agains the basic pronciples of this contry. Call me brainwashed, or call me a carefull scion of our constitution.

You are already working on the destruction of the Constitution. Roe v Wade is a perfect example. (Not the ruling per se but how it was derived.

Dont preach to me. You have nothing on those that disagree with you. Same for me. But most of your premises listed above are very easily de-bunked and have. You just dont like it. So, here come da judge, here come da judge.

Cause in reality, that is the only branch of government you have used to get your way

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

I'll leave it up to the American people as to how much enthusiasm they have for the more expansive role advocated by Cheney and Palin.

Despite the fact that the VP role has expanded since Mondale under Carter 1977-80, remember that the exception to that trend was Dan Quayle's minimalist role in the Bush-1 administration, due in large part because he was so ill-respected, not to mention his youth - only age 41 when he became VP, and the large gulf between his and Bush-1's ages (24 years). If McCain wins , I'd predict that Palin's role as VP would be much more like Quayle than like that of Mondale, Gore or Cheney.

I think you're probably right.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jraf 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If you want a more socialist country, then by all means, support that guy

First of all let us distinguish between socialism and social responsibility. I have, YOU do not seem to be able to LEt's looks at just one aspect - health insurance. I am well educated and am able to care relatively well for the hordes of children that I have. As I run a small business I am well aware of the costs of health insurance. I am also well aware of the limitiations insurance companies pose on you. Like state mandates and restrictions of the ability to allow compainies to sell across state lines to offer people affordable programs not limited by government control? Like those limitations? I am once again lucky - I am at a good age and of perfect health. The travesty is that while we are one of the few top technically developed countries in the world whith an infrastructure second to none, over 50 million (that is 50,000,000) of our fellow citizens HAVE NO FORM OF HEALTH INSURANCE!!! This number is a spin but, for the case of this post I will give it to you. That being said, none of those you list will be turned away from ER when hurt or sick. YOu and I already pay for them. If we want to pay more, just let the government run itThat means that they get no preventive health checkups, no mammographs, no cholesterol measures nothing! If they have a mishap they will get the basic care as hospitals will admitt them, but the following health bills will drive them into bankruptcy, make them loose whatever they have. If you ask me if we need more social responsibilitysocailism is what you propose. Nothing sort of it either in this country the answer is YES. Liberalism per definition is incribed into the constitution of the United States. Aside for all else it is the Government for the people and by the people. In that definition, for the people means that the government has certain responsibilities towards the citizens. In today's eveloved economic and social systems that means taking care of the BASIC needs of the citizens and health care is one of them.No, it is not

Socialism calls for collective ownership and administration of means of production.You should know as that is what you strive for here I strongly believe that the Democratic National Convention could not be further from suggesting that. Social responsibility however is a sign of developed societies. Give me a break I may be an atheist but I am the first one to say that we have a responsibilitie for those lesser brothers of ours. That is what differenciates us from animals.

I am not calling for a larger government sorry, that is not true- as a matter of fact I am calling for a smaller and more efficient government. I want the DoH to provide health services - real heath services for all. I want the DoD to provide defense for us and not spread democracy to Iraq - I could not care less about Iraq. I want an efficient, reasonable and effective policing organization without the overgrown, overstaffed, overbudgeted, self important and incompetent DHS. I want a modern efficient, technically competent society with a free market economy, leading education, health care and infrastructure. I want strict separation of church and state.You wish to further damage what the framers of the Constitution intended. I fully understand that I want absolute fredom of religion and expression. No you dont. You wish to use governement and your perverted church and state definition to further you belief as to how it should work I want us to be the leaders of the world again, we still are despite the shit those like you spread brecause we are falling behind on all fronts - military, financial and social. As long as out leaders have lobbyists for foreign powers as their closests adivsors (John McCains entire campaign leadership is - please check if you think I am wrong)as is Obamas for the most part. Just some of his are convicted criminals Reines comes to mind we are going to get nowhere. To a point we do agree here As long as our political leaders put their religion before state we will fail.Your opinion, not that of all of the US as you would like to see America is not a country of evangelical christians who earn m ore that $500,000 a year. We are a multi religious, multi cultural society.We are Americans first. Hyphinated titles are part of the PC bull shit that is tearing this country apart. Multi culturism is a destructive part of it This is what makes us rich, this is part of the success of this country. We are diverse, yes, but we are americans first If Sarah Palin believes in witchcraft and the conception of women from a man's rib, that is fine - as long as she does that in the privacy of her religious beliefs. Once she mixes her cult with national policy she automatically steps agains the basic pronciples of this contry. Call me brainwashed, or call me a carefull scion of our constitution.

You are already working on the destruction of the Constitution. Roe v Wade is a perfect example. (Not the ruling per se but how it was derived.

Dont preach to me. You have nothing on those that disagree with you. Same for me. But most of your premises listed above are very easily de-bunked and have. You just dont like it. So, here come da judge, here come da judge.

Cause in reality, that is the only branch of government you have used to get your way

Marc Rush sine you seem not to really understand the world you live in, in response to your blabbering let me ask you this questions:

1. When was the last time you purchased a U.S manufactured computer?

2. When was the lat time you purchased U.S. manufactured sneakers?

3. When was the last time you purchased a US brand name (not only manufactured but branded) TV set and when was the last time you had one that was made in the United States.

4. When was the last time you saw at toy made in this country?

5. Last but not least - should you lose your job and lose your medical benefits and by some chance have a car accident or just brake a leg skydiving, and after you get admitted to an emergency room and treated, tell me pray Marc Rush how fast will you loose your house because of the close to $100,000 medical bill that you will get?

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

If you want a more socialist country, then by all means, support that guy

First of all let us distinguish between socialism and social responsibility. I have, YOU do not seem to be able to LEt's looks at just one aspect - health insurance. I am well educated and am able to care relatively well for the hordes of children that I have. As I run a small business I am well aware of the costs of health insurance. I am also well aware of the limitiations insurance companies pose on you. Like state mandates and restrictions of the ability to allow compainies to sell across state lines to offer people affordable programs not limited by government control? Like those limitations? I am once again lucky - I am at a good age and of perfect health. The travesty is that while we are one of the few top technically developed countries in the world whith an infrastructure second to none, over 50 million (that is 50,000,000) of our fellow citizens HAVE NO FORM OF HEALTH INSURANCE!!! This number is a spin but, for the case of this post I will give it to you. That being said, none of those you list will be turned away from ER when hurt or sick. YOu and I already pay for them. If we want to pay more, just let the government run itThat means that they get no preventive health checkups, no mammographs, no cholesterol measures nothing! If they have a mishap they will get the basic care as hospitals will admitt them, but the following health bills will drive them into bankruptcy, make them loose whatever they have. If you ask me if we need more social responsibilitysocailism is what you propose. Nothing sort of it either in this country the answer is YES. Liberalism per definition is incribed into the constitution of the United States. Aside for all else it is the Government for the people and by the people. In that definition, for the people means that the government has certain responsibilities towards the citizens. In today's eveloved economic and social systems that means taking care of the BASIC needs of the citizens and health care is one of them.No, it is not

Socialism calls for collective ownership and administration of means of production.You should know as that is what you strive for here I strongly believe that the Democratic National Convention could not be further from suggesting that. Social responsibility however is a sign of developed societies. Give me a break I may be an atheist but I am the first one to say that we have a responsibilitie for those lesser brothers of ours. That is what differenciates us from animals.

I am not calling for a larger government sorry, that is not true- as a matter of fact I am calling for a smaller and more efficient government. I want the DoH to provide health services - real heath services for all. I want the DoD to provide defense for us and not spread democracy to Iraq - I could not care less about Iraq. I want an efficient, reasonable and effective policing organization without the overgrown, overstaffed, overbudgeted, self important and incompetent DHS. I want a modern efficient, technically competent society with a free market economy, leading education, health care and infrastructure. I want strict separation of church and state.You wish to further damage what the framers of the Constitution intended. I fully understand that I want absolute fredom of religion and expression. No you dont. You wish to use governement and your perverted church and state definition to further you belief as to how it should work I want us to be the leaders of the world again, we still are despite the shit those like you spread brecause we are falling behind on all fronts - military, financial and social. As long as out leaders have lobbyists for foreign powers as their closests adivsors (John McCains entire campaign leadership is - please check if you think I am wrong)as is Obamas for the most part. Just some of his are convicted criminals Reines comes to mind we are going to get nowhere. To a point we do agree here As long as our political leaders put their religion before state we will fail.Your opinion, not that of all of the US as you would like to see America is not a country of evangelical christians who earn m ore that $500,000 a year. We are a multi religious, multi cultural society.We are Americans first. Hyphinated titles are part of the PC bull shit that is tearing this country apart. Multi culturism is a destructive part of it This is what makes us rich, this is part of the success of this country. We are diverse, yes, but we are americans first If Sarah Palin believes in witchcraft and the conception of women from a man's rib, that is fine - as long as she does that in the privacy of her religious beliefs. Once she mixes her cult with national policy she automatically steps agains the basic pronciples of this contry. Call me brainwashed, or call me a carefull scion of our constitution.

You are already working on the destruction of the Constitution. Roe v Wade is a perfect example. (Not the ruling per se but how it was derived.

Dont preach to me. You have nothing on those that disagree with you. Same for me. But most of your premises listed above are very easily de-bunked and have. You just dont like it. So, here come da judge, here come da judge.

Cause in reality, that is the only branch of government you have used to get your way

Marc Rush sine you seem not to really understand the world you live in, in response to your blabbering let me ask you this questions:

1. When was the last time you purchased a U.S manufactired computer?

2. When was the lat time you purchased U.S. manufactured sneakers?

3. When was the last time you purchased a US brand name (not only manufactured but branded) TV set and when was the last time you had one that was made in the United States.

4. When was the last time you saw at tou made in this country?

5. Last but not least - should you loose your job and loose your medical benefits and by some chance have a car accident or just brake a leg skydiving, and after you get admitted to an emergency room and treated, tell me pray Marc Rush how fast will you loose your house because of the close to $100,000 medical bill that you will get?

Are you a Teamster or something?

IF I would lose my job I would find a way to get by. And I would NOT be knocking at the door of any government agency to do it.

I have a son that has no health insurance right now. Dont like it, but it is not up to socialism to see that he does.

In any event, at least after this post I understand where you come from and why.

Not good, not bad, I just understand

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jraf 0]

Are you a Teamster or something?

IF I would lose my job I would find a way to get by. And I would NOT be knocking at the door of any government agency to do it.

I have a son that has no health insurance right now. Dont like it, but it is not up to socialism to see that he does.

In any event, at least after this post I understand where you come from and why.

Not good, not bad, I just understand

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Are you a Teamster or something?

IF I would lose my job I would find a way to get by. And I would NOT be knocking at the door of any government agency to do it.

I have a son that has no health insurance right now. Dont like it, but it is not up to socialism to see that he does.

In any event, at least after this post I understand where you come from and why.

Not good, not bad, I just understand

I guess you just did not figure a way to get your son health insurance, so please don't make claims that you could take care of yourself.

Wanting for the United States to have a strong manufacturing base has nothing to do with being a trade union member. It has to do with wanting this country to lead in all aspects. We are currenly figting a war that is being financed by our greatest political and economic opponent - China. They are letting us have the money as when we concentrate on bringing democracy and education to the children of Iraq (while neglecting our own in the United States) they are turning into an economic and military superpower, they sell us high technology, while we sell them scrap metal - just like a good third world country.

[alw 0]

I got the T-shirt!

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Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[kelpdiver 2]

But if I were your son, I'd wish I was living somewhere else.

No insurance means a dramatic difference in my recreational activities. Couldn't even do cycling with the risk of a road accident. Not a change for skydiving, scuba, or mountaineering.

[billvon 2,435]

>If this "civil union" is something like domestic partnership, which
>is basically not really regulated, they cannot have the same rights.

Then we change the laws that regulate domestic partnerships. Or we make same-sex marriage legal. In both cases, all that matters to me is that everyone has the same rights regardless of their sexual orientation.