rynodigsmusic 0 #301 May 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteLOL. What's kind of funny is that I used to think like you, too. I don't reject Jesus. I think there's a lot to learn from the Bible. But I'm not led through life by the Gospel, and I am open to the lessons and truths that are taught outside the Church. linz. This made me think of a billboard on the PA turnpike. It says "Jesus, Accept or Reject". I don't see it as that clear cut. I agree, that some of the teachings of the Bible are truly good ones, how to live in peace, get along, help others, the basics of how to live a good life. Teachings that are similar to virtually every philosophical and religous doctrine. I have tried very hard in my life to be a good Christian, that is how I was raised. But I never really felt it in my heart, I don't feel that Jesus is real and there and part of me, no matter how open I was and how badly I wanted to believe in that kind of truth. Is that rejection of Jesus that I walked away from the Christian church because I could no longer bear the hypocrisy of pretending to believe something that just never really fit with me? I don't feel that I've rejected anything, only accepted the fact that I am human, I have to do the best I can in this life with the tools that I have and the nature of my spirit. That's exactly what I am doing, and I've found so much more peace and joy on this path than I've ever known before. As a result I'm better equipped to give to and care for others. Jesus is a part of you because you know he died for you. He died so that you could find life beyond that of being enslaved by sin. If the church has lead you out of the love that is found in that, then that of course is the churches fault. Find a good and true friend in this world, someone you can tell anything to and who will love you regardless. That is priceless. Now, understand that friend died for you because he loved you so much. Now understand that was God."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #302 May 17, 2008 QuoteDo you believe there is life greater than just being alive? Sure. I wouldn't want to trade my life for that of a paramecium. That's hardly relevant to my comment about your misuse of the terms logic and reason.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #303 May 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt is funny to me that people believe that just becuase they know the Gospel, that they speak the truth to God. Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #304 May 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt is funny to me that people believe that just becuase they know the Gospel, that they speak the truth to God. Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? I dont believe it is considered arrogance to speak what Jesus spoke. If you believe anything I have said is not what the Gospel says, then please let me know. I told you before, I seek humility and humbleness. When I am wrong, I will tell you."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #305 May 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteDo you believe there is life greater than just being alive? Sure. I wouldn't want to trade my life for that of a paramecium. That's hardly relevant to my comment about your misuse of the terms logic and reason. Again, that is the point, your perception would see that as a misuse of logic and reason."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #306 May 17, 2008 QuoteDo you believe there is life greater than just being alive? So, do you believe there is a place wher people go when they die? Would that be the same place, for everyone? So it may hold.... everyone that ever lived? every animal (every)? every insect? every microbe, bacteria, single cell thingy? every plant...? every thing that ever lived and dies and was made from DNA? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #307 May 17, 2008 I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. QuoteChrist never taught such arroganceThe real one or the mythological one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #308 May 17, 2008 [I] I told you before, I seek humility and humbleness. When I am wrong, I will tell you. Every ONCE in a while I'm wrong too. Often I don't even know I'm wrong until someone else points it out to me. Humility allows me to see it.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #309 May 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt is funny to me that people believe that just becuase they know the Gospel, that they speak the truth to God. Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? It does not appear so.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #310 May 17, 2008 QuoteAgain, that is the point, your perception would see that as a misuse of logic and reason. Only because I don't redefine logic]/i] and reason as you have done. (logic + reason) != faithMath tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #311 May 17, 2008 QuoteThe real one or the mythological one? Are they different?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #312 May 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt is funny to me that people believe that just becuase they know the Gospel, that they speak the truth to God. Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? It does not appear so. "The Gospel is about truth, its about speaking the entire truth to God. The entire truth will find your guilt and condemnation." "The only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who admits he is one" If one speaks the entire truth to God, he will see his need for repentance, and through repentance, grace will guide. Grace does not guide all those who "know" the Gospel, if guides those who are truly humble and contrite. I have been into few churches where these qualities of the spirit are practiced. In a real church, Leaders should be servants and the most humble of all. Do you see this? I dont. Yet, they have the Gospel right there in front of them. I have said and will continue to say, that we are all evil, none of us are good, if we are not on guard and aware of hypocrisy, then we will be deiceved by it...Jesus himself told the disciples to "be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy" No one, not me, not Peter, not even you can escape the power of hypocrisy, its very nature is unseen to us. It is the condition of the heart which reveals it."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #313 May 18, 2008 I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different.*** I think this is an excellent question, and it is the mirror that I use constantly to examine myself. I believe the seeming paradox of spiritual growth requires this question to keep oneself on track. Study, prayer , meditation, trust in God, and constant evaluation of the productive state of my life, will hopefully keep me on the True Path. ______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #314 May 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt is funny to me that people believe that just becuase they know the Gospel, that they speak the truth to God. Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? It does not appear so. "The Gospel is about truth, its about speaking the entire truth to God. The entire truth will find your guilt and condemnation." "The only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who admits he is one" If one speaks the entire truth to God, he will see his need for repentance, and through repentance, grace will guide. Grace does not guide all those who "know" the Gospel, if guides those who are truly humble and contrite. I have been into few churches where these qualities of the spirit are practiced. In a real church, Leaders should be servants and the most humble of all. Do you see this? I dont. Yet, they have the Gospel right there in front of them. I have said and will continue to say, that we are all evil, none of us are good, if we are not on guard and aware of hypocrisy, then we will be deiceved by it...Jesus himself told the disciples to "be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy" No one, not me, not Peter, not even you can escape the power of hypocrisy, its very nature is unseen to us. It is the condition of the heart which reveals it. That's all very interesting. However, it does nothing to answer the question.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #315 May 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt is funny to me that people believe that just becuase they know the Gospel, that they speak the truth to God. Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? It does not appear so. "The Gospel is about truth, its about speaking the entire truth to God. The entire truth will find your guilt and condemnation." "The only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who admits he is one" If one speaks the entire truth to God, he will see his need for repentance, and through repentance, grace will guide. Grace does not guide all those who "know" the Gospel, if guides those who are truly humble and contrite. I have been into few churches where these qualities of the spirit are practiced. In a real church, Leaders should be servants and the most humble of all. Do you see this? I dont. Yet, they have the Gospel right there in front of them. I have said and will continue to say, that we are all evil, none of us are good, if we are not on guard and aware of hypocrisy, then we will be deiceved by it...Jesus himself told the disciples to "be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy" No one, not me, not Peter, not even you can escape the power of hypocrisy, its very nature is unseen to us. It is the condition of the heart which reveals it. That's all very interesting. However, it does nothing to answer the question. why you are not one of those people you speak of "The only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who admits he is one" I am guilty of hypocrisy. Very guilty. Did this answer your question? If not, maybe you should tell me what you want me to say instead? Dont you think it is somewhat interesting that I have said I am guilty, evil, dark, over and over again, yet it sounds like you believe I am saying im not?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #316 May 18, 2008 QuoteI don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. QuoteChrist never taught such arroganceThe real one or the mythological one? There is a "Real" one?? cool, as so far I have only read about the mythological one, the one with NO EVIDENCE OF HIS EXISTENCE WHAT SO EVER.... so please who is this "Real" one?? Now just so we are on the same page, my definition of real is "existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary", and for it to be fact there needs to be evidence, do you have it?----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #317 May 18, 2008 I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christ never taught such arrogance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The real one or the mythological one? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteThere is a "Real" one?? cool, as so far I have only read about the mythological one, the one with NO EVIDENCE OF HIS EXISTENCE WHAT SO EVER.... so please who is this "Real" one?? Now just so we are on the same page, my definition of real is "existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary", and for it to be fact there needs to be evidence, do you have it?Would you like to go through this book of mythology and point out to me all of the characters who have no basis in reality? How about Saul of Taursus aka. the Apostle Paul? How about any number of the disciples? Does anyone who was born without a birth certificate or any documentation of any feat in his life fit your mythology test? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #318 May 18, 2008 QuoteI don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christ never taught such arrogance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The real one or the mythological one? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteThere is a "Real" one?? cool, as so far I have only read about the mythological one, the one with NO EVIDENCE OF HIS EXISTENCE WHAT SO EVER.... so please who is this "Real" one?? Now just so we are on the same page, my definition of real is "existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary", and for it to be fact there needs to be evidence, do you have it?Would you like to go through this book of mythology and point out to me all of the characters who have no basis in reality? How about Saul of Taursus aka. the Apostle Paul? How about any number of the disciples? Do wish to do the same for the Odyssey and the Iliad? How about the Arthashastra of Kautiliya or the Mudrarakshasa? Or even Beowulf.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #319 May 18, 2008 Now just so we are on the same page, my definition of real is "existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary", and for it to be fact there needs to be evidence, do you have it.*** You keep asking this question while ignoring the answers based on historical sources. What is up with that? There is no argument from any serious academic textual critic of the Bible that Jesus was a real person who lived on the face of the earth. As I am sure you know "textual critics" treat the Bible as literature and most of them are atheists/agnostics, which I have always found amusing. WWW.BIBLICALARCHAEOLOGY.ORG is such a organization if you have any interest in checking them out. They do produce good historical research with out all of the clutter that Christians can sometimes introduce into the texts. As far as if Jesus is what He says He is, that is obviously for everyone to work out for themselves. ______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #320 May 18, 2008 QuoteYou keep asking this question while ignoring the answers based on historical sources. Some of the historical sources, such as Josephus, appear to have been doctored. The extent to which it has occurred is debated. The references to Jesus that are more credible (w/r/t actually having been written by Josephus) appear to have been based on second hand (at best) information of unknown credibility.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #321 May 18, 2008 Quote Now just so we are on the same page, my definition of real is "existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary", and for it to be fact there needs to be evidence, do you have it.*** You keep asking this question while ignoring the answers based on historical sources. What is up with that? There is no argument from any serious academic textual critic of the Bible that Jesus was a real person who lived on the face of the earth. As I am sure you know "textual critics" treat the Bible as literature and most of them are atheists/agnostics, which I have always found amusing. ______________________________________ Instead of "amusing", I suggest you find it "compelling". Maybe as a result of the "serious academic" studies" they found insight that you missed. There seems to be little doubt that Alexander the Great was a real historic person, but does that mean he really was the Son of Zeus?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #322 May 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteYou keep asking this question while ignoring the answers based on historical sources. Some of the historical sources, such as Josephus, appear to have been doctored. The extent to which it has occurred is debated. The references to Jesus that are more credible (w/r/t actually having been written by Josephus) appear to have been based on second hand (at best) information of unknown credibility. History as we understand it today didn't exist until recently. Even as late as the Tudor period** historians would make up "facts" to suit the prevailing political winds, or just their own prejudices. Kind of like a medieval version of "Bad Intel". Roman historians had no hesitation in referring to their Emperor as a God. There is also no doubt that any text that has been repeatedly copied, transcribed and translated for 2 millennia will have significant changes from the original. ** We still do it today - it's called "spin" now.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #323 May 18, 2008 It's interesting... I've just read Bill Bryson's book about Will Shakepeare and although he was one of the world finest writers (Willl not Bill), very little is actually known about him.. and he was around 400ish years ago (and to think some people even think that his works were written by Bacon ) So to go back some 1600 years before that, when there was no printing and try to establish real facts about people living or imagined is almost pure folly. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #324 May 18, 2008 Quote It's interesting... I've just read Bill Bryson's book about Will Shakepeare and although he was one of the world finest writers (Willl not Bill), very little is actually known about him.. and he was around 400ish years ago (and to think some people even think that his works were written by Bacon ) So to go back some 1600 years before that, when there was no printing and try to establish real facts about people living or imagined is almost pure folly. Absolutely. And Shakespeare (whichever one you prefer) was certainly guilty of revising history to suit his monarch.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #325 May 18, 2008 To suit his monach (Liz 1) aye... but also to keep his head!!. Spelling wasn't his strong point either... He could get his own name correct (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
