Lindsey 0 #276 February 15, 2008 Quote>which is why homebrew is good for you! Any beer, really. A few studies have shown that beer intake is associated with higher average B12 (and folate) levels. So if you're gonna be a drunk....drink BEER!-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #277 February 15, 2008 QuoteSo if you're gonna be a drunk....drink BEER! Damn it! <--drinks wine. Kills berries.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #278 February 16, 2008 QuoteWalt Disney also made a movie about lemmings that were intentionally herded along treacherous paths, and many fell to their deaths. To this day, people still think that lemmings commit suicide because of that movie..... ...when the truth, of course, is that most lemmings have never even seen the movie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #279 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteSo if you're gonna be a drunk....drink BEER! Damn it! <--drinks wine. Kills berries. Yeah....me too. But I have REALLY good HDL cholesterol (well, LDL for that matter too). If the vegetarians don't want to eat meat, they can potentially get their B12 from seaweed! There's an option for ya! Beer and seaweed. :) linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #280 February 16, 2008 Quote Quote Maybe my mind's just in the gutter though. How YOU doin? Actually I'm doing pretty good...lol. Got this new man in my life. His name is Rod. How's THAT for good fortune. :) linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #281 February 16, 2008 Dont Spare the Rod and he will spoil the Linz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyLake 0 #282 February 16, 2008 A recent related articles of interest: "Rethinking the Meat Guzzler" http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Rethinking+the+meat+guzzler&st=nyt&oref=slogin I eat maybe one meal with meat a month, always the same thing (disgusting and delicious comfort food. I enjoy it, but fundamentally hope to drop it). I rarely buy products made with animal, or products tested on animals. I scrutinize labels. I don't label myself a vegan anymore because I lately break often enough that I'm more of a vegetarian, but clearly can't even call myself that, legitimately. (All this because I've basically been a pussy: peer pressure, you know)? Mass slaughter is unnecessary. Factory farming destroys the environment. Sustainable farming practices and organics could improve the situation, but ultimately farming meat involves the use of vasts amounts of energy in order to produce relatively extraordinarily little energy sitting on my plate. Meat's tasty, sure, but incurably wasteful. I'm not a perfect environmentalist at all. I'm probably a pretty bad one of those, too, lately; I readily admit that I've contributed vast amounts of spent Jet A to our atmostphere. But every bit counts, and no genuine environmentalist eats meat. Those sorts of videos--and I've seen many--always sadden me. When I was younger, I hunted with my father (because game tastes especially good). But dad also, for whatever reason, emphasized that we had killed something that had lived, that we'd taken its life away absolutely; so we'd better appreciate it. It always struck me that probably the best way to appreciate life is to let a thing live & be. Then I've other ethical reasons for not wanting to meat; but since others agree, many of these reasons are readily found upon research, so I'll not detail them here. I've found that My body & soul do better when I don't consume animals. Everybody else can do whatever they like. I should point out, though, that everyone I know who's genuinely tried being a vegan--and maintained a healthy, balanced diet--feels much better for it.Let's go to candy mountain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #283 February 16, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yeah, I saw that.... why don't you stop taking your B12 supplements and eat a handful of dirt everyday and tell us how it goes. TRy not to lose focus here, Neal. The primary argument here is that of what we were designed to be, omnivoire or herbivoire. We were origianally designed to be herbivoires by every account I see and no one has yet to introduce anything to the contrary but the B-12 argument which Bill I have refuted via the Wilkipedia article and Bill will support in the next page by informing that B-12 is produced on the roots of plants and primal man who was a herbivoire originally ate these roots to obtain the B-12 until he deviated and copied carnivorous animals and started eating meat. He probably did this not to avoid eating roots, as he knew not of B-12, but to expand his choices for food. CONCLUSION: the primal origin of man did eat roots and probably some dirt in order to survive. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOve to explain that. Gender is the answer. They were provided to many herbivoires, squirrels, deer, etc for fighting and females didn't have them or they were smaller or rudiment, whereas males had them. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Descent_of_Man/Chapter_XVII With many animals the canine teeth in the upper or lower jaw, or in both, are much larger in the males than in the females, or are absent in the latter, with the exception sometimes of a hidden rudiment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can do that AFTER you show the *proof* that our ancestors were vegetarians for "millions of years". Neal wouldn't be Neal without sitting on his hands, demanding his rivals *proove* his points for him. I won't *proove* anything, as proove/proof is a fool's word. No, I'm not calling you a fool, as I use the word sometimes as I'm loosely talking to people, but those who know science know true scientists don't use the word. There is ni such thing as consistent proof and if you use it very long, you will eat it. When you proove things, and eventually either it will be either disporoven later or the thing prooven will change, hen every other prooven otem you've asserted is now in play as BS. Scientists will use laws, as the law of gravity, but it falls short of proof....... wanna find proof? Go to church or any courtroom, they use the word and make it cheap, and we know of all the falsehoods and lies that are spewed there. So, will I do what to can to evidence them? Sure, I'm not an anthropologist, but I will now research it and see what I can come up with, but I think Bill has already established that the earliest man had all the physical attributes of herbivoires. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #284 February 16, 2008 QuoteNo it doesn't make me want to be a veggie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CfbEhH8uyo&feature=related[url] Thats terrible but it doesn't make me want to be a veggie either. I eat meat and love animals, I know Vets who do also. I don't think there is a conflict between the two. You eat meat and love pets, there is s difference. Would that be to say that Dahmer, Gacey and many others alos loved people and murdered them? You would say that's proposterous and I would agree, so you love pets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #285 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuotesame as hanging a sheep by its foot for an hour so the blood drains out, then cutting its throat. I think you've got that backwards, but that's probably the way you'd do it. Yea I know, all that slaughter house footage is staged, they really don't hang them by their feet, go to break, laugh thet hanging stupidly and moaning in pain as the blood rushes to their heads and then the human cuts their throat to gt a good bleeding. All who eat meat contract to this suffrage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #286 February 16, 2008 Quote You claim we need to eat animals or animal products to get B-12, I just refuted that, Hmm...so you can get it from eating dirt. Okay. If it suits you. :) linz Once again, Linz, that's an oops up side ya head . So Bill, an engieer I think and a blue collar guy disprooved your B-12 theory and you are still defiant. A doctor? What was that I was saying about fakers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #287 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteYes, whiney men make me puke.You spend a lot of time in front of the toilet, do you? Yes, thinking of you, puking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #288 February 16, 2008 Quote I know Wikipedia's great and all, but here's a link to NIH if you're interested. Gives some good information. http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp linz If you care to refute any data/evidence, do so using source. I have done ample work researching and posting articles. It's bad enough I have to do so for Neal, I refuse to do it for smeone of such higher education than me . Please, extract your evidene and display it in a fashion to disproove my assertions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #289 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote(a slow death adversely affects flavor, supposedly) there may be some truth to that. last season i killed a deer that was in the middle of a river still alaive but had been shot first by another hunter. the deer was 1 1/2 years old and does taste gamey. my buddy's deer was 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 years old but was killed, skinned, quartered, and in ice water very quickly and happens to be the best deer that i've ever tasted. Well at least we have our priorities in order, who gives a fuck about the suffering YOU cause. in this case i put that poor deer out of it's misery. it was wounded and in pain, but it had been shot just in the hind leg, severing the bone. this injury alone is not fatal, but a wolf or coyote would soon find this deer and just start munching on it probably without even killing it first. as for the rest of my kills, the goal is to put it down as quickly and painlessly as possible. WOW, see the parallels? I think some serial killers do the same, but I think it's so they can kill and escape w/o being noticed, so there are *some* differences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #290 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote>Hey here's a thought, you are so hell-bent on killing these animals >so they don't have to starve, what if you kill a mother who is collecting >food for her young . . . pssst - Lucky - deer don't collect food for their young. I'm sure some animals mate out of season on occassion, but the point is that hunters indescriminately kill w/o consideration for family relationships. Some animals are monogomous for life, unlike humans, yet we preace that BS, fuck around on our mates, then go kill animals in nature that are truly monogomous. What a paradox of BS, huh? Now go poke fun at that statement, then go kill a small animal's parent, child, etc. Pssssst, Bill, she eats it and provides milk until they are old enough, then leads then to show them how to survive all the ahole predators. psssst - lucky - hunting season for deer is in the fall. by that time all of the deer born the previous spring have long since been weened and they are fully capable of being independant. the only situation in which your "breaking up of families" theory applies is to bears, but it is illegal to kill a sow with cubs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #291 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteThere's lots of well thought-out stuff in this thread. But the "we're not designed to eat meat" argument just doesn't work. The very first thing that comes to my mind is Vitamin B-12. Can't live without it....or at least if you're gonna have blood and a brain. Can't get it from veggies. It's either meat, eggs, milk or a dietary supplement off the shelf. Our digestive systems handle meat just fine....but they need a bit of fiber/roughage too. Somebody, at some point in history, said something about "balance in all things." I think that's probably true here too. linz You know as well as I do what happens when less fortunate children are given noursihing meat for their diets. They start doing a measurable amount better in SCHOOL. Check out a program called "Hunters for the Hungry" I know, bikers sell drugs, then do a Toys for Tots program, kinda sick, isn't it? As well, ifthese kids were fed vegs they would do as well or better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #292 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuote[you resort to your weak attempt at emasculation. a strong attempt wasn't necessary. Go tell that to your trophy husband Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #293 February 16, 2008 QuoteNot my point. I just find it interested that vegetarians & vegans who don't want or find it disgusting to eat meat get their share. I'm answering pages of posts, so if you could post the assertion to which you are responding it would help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #294 February 16, 2008 >>>>>>>>WRONG,, yet again Beans are poisionous No wonder my ass smells as it does then. I must be dead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #295 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteHmm...so you can get it from eating dirt. Okay. If it suits you. Would you please stop being such a sensationalist? The article mentioned that B12 could also be obtained by reingesting feces. Eating dirt isn't the only option. As Bill writes, from yeast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #296 February 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotebecause (again...for the 4th or 5th time) we HAVE to have meat or eggs or milk in order to live... Those who DO have a problem with killing an animal may buy dietary supplements, however, to provide vital nutrients that will necessarily be missing from their diets. I don't know the answer to that. Maybe somebody else does.... linz Doc, are the B-12 supplements typically derived from animals? (<-- genuine question, not a segue to an argument) Yea, she's only a doctor, so she says, she doesn't know of all that icky, gouwy stuff that runs in our veins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #297 February 16, 2008 Quote So now you're saying that Lindsey should eat shit? Wow, you're mean. I would never say that, perhaps some remedial courses tho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #298 February 16, 2008 Quote Quote And Amazon you'll be pleased to know no plants were harmed in the making of (most) Vitamin C supplements either. Oh yeah.. what happened to all their young.... all those seeds crushed after all the work they went into making all those precious promises of a future....OH THE PLANTITY LOst, relegated to sarcasm? OBSERVATION: I see Amazon and Neal are, for once, on the same side. That's unique and now Amazon knows what it's like to be on the losing side of an argument. Either way, fun to watch them argue for each other Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #299 February 16, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Maybe my mind's just in the gutter though. How YOU doin? Actually I'm doing pretty good...lol. Got this new man in my life. His name is Rod. How's THAT for good fortune. :) linz It's excellent so long as he goes and kills the occassional defenseless animal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #300 February 16, 2008 Quote"we were originally designed to be herbivoires by every account I see" Ok...so you're going off of inference and not proof - that's cool, just stop trying to say it's gospel. QuoteLOve to explain that. Gender is the answer. They were provided to many herbivoires, squirrels, deer, etc for fighting and females didn't have them or they were smaller or rudiment, whereas males had them. Ok... now - why would tool using primates have need of 'fighting teeth'? Or just perhaps they're used for tearing meat. QuoteNeal wouldn't be Neal without sitting on his hands, demanding his rivals *proove* his points for him. Funny how you constantly demand people provide proof to refute YOUR points, but when the shoe's on the other foot, well.... QuoteSo, will I do what to can to evidence them? Sure, I'm not an anthropologist, but I will now research it and see what I can come up with, but I think Bill has already established that the earliest man had all the physical attributes of herbivoires. I'll look forward to your reply, especially as how Bill's post shows that we have many of the physical attributes of carnivores as well.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
