rushmc 18 #126 January 6, 2008 QuoteQuotePublic schools are still supposed to be guided by the community they are in. What has happened is the Feds and teachers unions have stepped in to change that. As a group, you and others agrue about the rights of people being removed. But yet you support this. I find the inconsistancy very troubling Marc, I'm genuinely trying to understand better your position because you know that I adore you and am confident that you have strongly-based reasons behind your position. What do you see as the role of publicly-elected school boards, which have to approve curricula? Do you see examples where that has failed? Are there really public schools in the US that don’t require parental permission or have an opt-out option for kids to attend sex ed classes? {I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know; my speculation is that in our litigious society, no school board would approve a curriculum that did not include parental permission … but I’ve been wrong before.} Thanks. VR/Marg For the most part the schools teach what is needed. The basics (of course) should be the core. Once the schools started stepping into soscial areas it has become a slippery slope. As agrued on this site many believe the schools should teach (insert topic here) regardless of my position and beliefs. The arguments are based around some parents dont do it to the kids will do it anyway type arguments. Those arguments do not trump my beliefs or rights as a parent. Despite thier self proclaimed superiority they, look through thier world veiw prism and think it should be mine as well. These same people who want to keep religion out of schools will support the teaching of what I call anti-religious topics. Well anti religious topics are a religion in and of themselves so, it gets back to others wanting to define what should be taught based on thier beliefs. I believe teaching a kid how to put a condom on a banana so "they know how to just in case" but call abstenance education religious are so full of it it is past smelling. Now, most schools do require some kind of parental consent to teach this stuff but, I have been involved with a school that sent the paper work home with the student and a non-responce was considered consent. I never got the form. Guess what happened. Think that is right? Slightly off the main topic, I went to high school in the 70's. The teachers decided that whole language was easier for the student. The basics of phonics was not used. Spell it how it sounds and you will pick it up latter. That is a failed experiment that I fight through everyday. How about schools not wanting to make someone feel bad because they loose at something or because someone else is better than they are. I do not think that is any kind of benefit to anyone, especicially not the student. I hope in some form I answered your questions"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #127 January 6, 2008 >If you want to be extreem you can do that with yourself So can you. If you want to teach an extremist creationist agenda, or you want to make sure your child does not know how contraception works, then you are free to do it yourself. Note that word "free." Freedom can be a bitch, but it's better than the alternative. >Then dont bitch about the Feds pushing things and removing rights >you deem important You do not seem to understand what a "right" is. A "right" is not equivalent to "stuff the government gives me that is exactly what I want." You have a right to say whatever you want. You do not have a right to free broadcast time on a TV station. You have a right to educate your kids however you want. You do not have the right to dictate that schools that other people fund teach your agenda. You have a right to practice whatever religion you want. You do not have the right to government funding for your religion. See the difference? >a blantent twist of what I said at best I think you are doing an excellent job of self-twisting your position without my help! Schools should not push religious agendas - unless they are yours, apparently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,626 #128 January 6, 2008 QuoteQuote> This is about a nanny state, some one else telling me as a parent > what and how it should be taught to my children . . . That's the definition of "public school." You can homeschool your children if you choose. If not, then the public school will teach your kids per its curriculum, not yours. >the argument is still removing parents rights and giving it to the state. Absurd. It is providing a service that you can choose not to avail yourself of. Sorry, but I do not agree. (it may be the definition you want) Public schools are still supposed to be guided by the community they are in. What has happened is the Feds and teachers unions have stepped in to change that. FOR THE Nth TIME - PUBLIC SCHOOL POLICY IS DICTATED BY SCHOOL BOARDS ELECTED BY THE COMMUNITY. (Everyone except Marc please excuse the shouting. I"ve tried every other way to get the message across.)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #129 January 6, 2008 QuoteThese same people who want to keep religion out of schools will support the teaching of what I call anti-religious topics. Well anti religious topics are a religion in and of themselves so, it gets back to others wanting to define what should be taught based on thier beliefs. What "anti-religious" beliefs? Who's been talking about anti religious beliefs? Is telling kids what STD's are, how pregnancies happen, and what condoms do "ant-religious"? Those are all just facts. Seriously - your entire argument here only makes sense if you think that safe sex classes are telling kids to go out and have as much pre-marital sex as they can. QuoteI believe teaching a kid how to put a condom on a banana so "they know how to just in case" but call abstenance education religious are so full of it it is past smelling. Odd. Most sex-ed I'm aware of takes the position of "not having sex is the safest thing, but if you do have it here's what the consequences might be and here's how to be as safe as possible". 'Abstinence only' education is generally considered to be religious because religious organisations are behind the overwhelming majority of abstinence only programmes.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #130 January 6, 2008 Unless your children are never exposed to the world outside of your home, they're gonna learn a LOT that you don't teach them. I don't understand how it is that you have a right for your children to learn only what you want them to learn. I just don't get your thinking. As far as sex education being taught in the schools goes, it's a public health issue, for heaven's sake. People die from things they pick up through sexual contact. Seeing the prevalence of disease in society diminish is worth some decent education on the front-end. It would be stupid to assume that parents know anything at all about sexually transmitted disease.... Any parent who is involved with his children's education at all knows that sex education is coming during those pre-teen years. If he's concerned about his child getting correct information about something that pertains to every living human being, then there's always the alternative of being pro-active. Make sure the school understands your position before the deadline. Kind of a no-brainer. Kids are gonna learn all kinds of stuff from their friends (unless, again, they're segregated from society). A lot better that they get accurate information, imho.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #131 January 6, 2008 Quote>If you want to be extreem you can do that with yourself So can you. If you want to teach an extremist creationist agenda, or you want to make sure your child does not know how contraception works, then you are free to do it yourself. Note that word "free." Freedom can be a bitch, but it's better than the alternative. >Then dont bitch about the Feds pushing things and removing rights >you deem important You do not seem to understand what a "right" is. A "right" is not equivalent to "stuff the government gives me that is exactly what I want." You have a right to say whatever you want. You do not have a right to free broadcast time on a TV station. You have a right to educate your kids however you want. You do not have the right to dictate that schools that other people fund teach your agenda.And here in lies the rub sir. Neither do you You have a right to practice whatever religion you want. You do not have the right to government funding for your religion. See the difference?Yes I do, I dont think you do >a blantent twist of what I said at best I think you are doing an excellent job of self-twisting your position without my help! Schools should not push religious agendas - unless they are yours, apparently.Another twist. I am not pushing anything, I am trying to get you to stop doing it yourself or, removiing what has been going on in this country for decades"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #132 January 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote> This is about a nanny state, some one else telling me as a parent > what and how it should be taught to my children . . . That's the definition of "public school." You can homeschool your children if you choose. If not, then the public school will teach your kids per its curriculum, not yours. >the argument is still removing parents rights and giving it to the state. Absurd. It is providing a service that you can choose not to avail yourself of. Sorry, but I do not agree. (it may be the definition you want) Public schools are still supposed to be guided by the community they are in. What has happened is the Feds and teachers unions have stepped in to change that. FOR THE Nth TIME - PUBLIC SCHOOL POLICY IS DICTATED BY SCHOOL BOARDS ELECTED BY THE COMMUNITY. NO sir, I agree with this. YOU want courts to dictate to the boards"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #133 January 6, 2008 QuoteUnless your children are never exposed to the world outside of your home,and how in hell to you think this is what I want? they're gonna learn a LOT that you don't teach them. I don't understand how it is that you have a right for your children to learn only what you want them to learn. I just don't get your thinking. So you want the gov to teach morality and anti religion to your kids? As far as sex education being taught in the schools goes, it's a public health issue, for heaven's sake. It has become more than that People die from things they pick up through sexual contact. Seeing the prevalence of disease in society diminish is worth some decent education on the front-end. It would be stupid to assume that parents know anything at all about sexually transmitted disease.... Any parent who is involved with his children's education at all knows that sex education is coming during those pre-teen years. If he's concerned about his child getting correct information about something that pertains to every living human being, then there's always the alternative of being pro-active. Make sure the school understands your position before the deadline. Kind of a no-brainer. Kids are gonna learn all kinds of stuff from their friends (unless, again, they're segregated from society). A lot better that they get accurate information, imho.YEp but I want thier values to come from me, not your government"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #134 January 6, 2008 QuoteSo you want the gov to teach morality and anti religion to your kids? What 'morality' - what 'anti-religion'? Explain your thinking!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #135 January 6, 2008 YEp but I want thier values to come from me, not your government They teach values when they tell kids to "Just Say No to Drugs." In sex ed classes, what they teach is pretty neutral on values, imho. Do you disagree with schools teaching children that it's a bad idea for them to use drugs??? linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #136 January 6, 2008 >And here in lies the rub sir. Neither do you That is correct. The school board does, with input from the community and the state. And within certain limits (i.e. they can't teach Shari'a law instead of civics, or Christian creationism instead of science) they can choose how to structure their curricula. >I am not pushing anything . . . Cool! Then we can leave the schools alone to continue to teach science and health to students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n23x 0 #137 January 6, 2008 It's not a morality issue nor is it anti-religion. It's FACT. Not conjecture or unsubstantiated, unreliable BS (read rythm method). It doesn't promote sex, it says to abstain; but if you WON'T abstain, protect yourself. The school can't and doesn't MAKE your kid have sex, it doesn't even put the thought into your kid's head. It DOES say that placing a barrier (condom) between a penis and a vagina highly reduces the likelihood of pregnancy and STD's. It is NOT an issue of morality, nor is it anti-religious. JAKEE posted a very legitimate question, which I'm assuming you won't answer since he isn't 'MERICAN', so I'll pose it: Do you think science biology classes should contain reproductive curriculum? Should boys and girls know that sperm and an egg form a baby? Should they know that mammals mate differently from fish? Or is this all they should know? .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #138 January 6, 2008 Quote It's not a morality issue nor is it anti-religion. It's FACT. Not conjecture or unsubstantiated, unreliable BS (read rythm method). It doesn't promote sex, it says to abstain; but if you WON'T abstain, protect yourself. The school can't and doesn't MAKE your kid have sex, it doesn't even put the thought into your kid's head. It DOES say that placing a barrier (condom) between a penis and a vagina highly reduces the likelihood of pregnancy and STD's. It is NOT an issue of morality, nor is it anti-religious. JAKEE posted a very legitimate question, which I'm assuming you won't answer since he isn't 'MERICAN', so I'll pose it: Do you think science biology classes should contain reproductive curriculum? Should boys and girls know that sperm and an egg form a baby? Should they know that mammals mate differently from fish?Got no problem with this but, this is not what we are talking about now is itOr is this all they should know? .jim "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n23x 0 #139 January 6, 2008 Yes, it's EXACTLY what we're talking about. Sex is when a male sticks his penis in a female's vagina. That's what Sex Ed is! Do you (religiously) dissapprove of condoms or other contraceptives? .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #140 January 6, 2008 QuoteGot no problem with this but, this is not what we are talking about now is it It kinda is. You don't think that teaching kids how the reproductive system works is a moral issue, but you think that teaching them how STD's, pregnancies and condoms work is a moral issue. Why?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #141 January 7, 2008 QuoteYes, it's EXACTLY what we're talking about. Sex is when a male sticks his penis in a female's vagina. That's what Sex Ed is! Do you (religiously) dissapprove of condoms or other contraceptives?No, but I do disaprove of someone else teaching my kids about it. That is my job. You want to give away that responsibility fine, Just dont ask me to do it because that is what YOU think is OK. .jim This all boils down to being responsible. It is very simple"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #142 January 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteGot no problem with this but, this is not what we are talking about now is it It kinda is. You don't think that teaching kids how the reproductive system works is a moral issue, but you think that teaching them how STD's, pregnancies and condoms work is a moral issue. Why? I have explained it. You dont understand my position. It will just have to stay that way. Oh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. Again, I do not want to stop you from having your kids taught that way. I am only asking that I be allowed to make those same type decisions for my kids. You do not seem to want a parent to be a parent without the nanny gov looking over my shoulder"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #143 January 7, 2008 Again, I do not want to stop you from having your kids taught that way. I am only asking that I be allowed to make those same type decisions for my kids. Good. Then it would be a good idea to make your child's school aware of your position and opt out of the sex ed class. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #144 January 7, 2008 QuoteI have explained it. You dont understand my position. It will just have to stay that way. Oh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. You haven't explained anything. You have stated that it is a morality issue. Why? Why is it a morality issue? More bizarre is your attempt to tie it into the constitution by making it a religious thing. How on earth is teaching about how condoms or STD's work anti-religious? What is your reasoning? Tell me why it is an anti-religious and immoral thing?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites n23x 0 #145 January 7, 2008 You were allowed. Didn't you say that your kid was given a permission slip that didn't make its way into your hands? Sounds like a lack of responsibility on the child's side, not the schools. QuoteOh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. You haven't been able to present a reasonable argument with regard to what that is. If you can't do that, how can you assess whether or not you're really looking at it "correctly". .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #146 January 7, 2008 It's obvious that you dont see the big picture. Certain issues need to presented to kids even if their parents dont know about them. I'm sorry if I think that sex-ed and free condoms should be offered to kids. I'd rather have 16 year practicing safe sex than having them think 'pullin out' is 'safe sex'. Read up about teenage pregnancy and then get back to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #147 January 7, 2008 Quote You were allowed. Didn't you say that your kid was given a permission slip that didn't make its way into your hands? Sounds like a lack of responsibility on the child's side, not the schools. Quote Oh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. You haven't been able to present a reasonable argument with regard to what that is. If you can't do that, how can you assess whether or not you're really looking at it "correctly". .jim I sat down to think about this last night as it was apparent to me I was not doing a good job making my point. After some thought consider the following. "Sex Ed" and teaching a boy how to put on a condom is just one symptom of the bigger issue. To illustrate my thoughts, think of the following. Sex is an act that can have (and many times does have) consequences. Those being pregnancy, STD's and the emotional issues that can come with the act. When sex ed moves beyond the biological facts, it changes to a process to help someone avoid any one of these issues. IE, to remove responsibility. Add to this, laws that say a minor girl can go to a free clinic and get birth control or an abortion, with the parents knowlelge or consent and the social reasons to teach "sex ed" become a little clearer. People want to go out and have sex but, they do not want the consequences. (I do not know you but looking at your profile may give me an insite into what you think of yourself and the ladies) Next, to help them (our society) with this desire to remove responsibility, you want to go out and make yourself feel better by teaching MY kids ways the may help them avoid consequences of an adult act. And many of these they can do without my knowlege or consent. So, IMV it is not the class but the reasons for the class. Added to the other reasons I list and it is a social issue, not a biological one. IT IS a morality issue when looked at properly in this context. You want to have the school teach your Johnny how to put on a condom so he can stick little Jenny, cause we all know they will do it anyway Fine, but dont sit there on your high horse and tell me I am the one not helping my kids. Cause I dont buy it. IMO you are the one doing more harm. By teaching these things, combined with the laws, you are the one trying remove responsibility for a choice, you are the one doing harm, not I. In the end you are the one forcingyour views on me and mine. Not the other way around"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #148 January 7, 2008 Quote Yes 'education' - that dastardly codeword for what teachers do. When will the madness end!? What with the continuation of STDs, apparently, the kids are saving the condums for the morning after, to put on their breakfast food. Looks like they CAUGHT the lesson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,626 #149 January 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote> This is about a nanny state, some one else telling me as a parent > what and how it should be taught to my children . . . That's the definition of "public school." You can homeschool your children if you choose. If not, then the public school will teach your kids per its curriculum, not yours. >the argument is still removing parents rights and giving it to the state. Absurd. It is providing a service that you can choose not to avail yourself of. Sorry, but I do not agree. (it may be the definition you want) Public schools are still supposed to be guided by the community they are in. What has happened is the Feds and teachers unions have stepped in to change that. FOR THE Nth TIME - PUBLIC SCHOOL POLICY IS DICTATED BY SCHOOL BOARDS ELECTED BY THE COMMUNITY. NO sir, I agree with this. YOU want courts to dictate to the boards I do? Thanks fpor telling me. I just want boards to refrain from unconstitutional policies. Other than that, they can do what the community wants.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #150 January 7, 2008 QuoteHmm. Time for the antibiotic manufacturers, radical christian groups and Saturday morning cartoon manufacturers to start supporting denial research! That way people could claim "THERE'S NO CONSENSUS! We could have been created in a day, or maybe evolution happened. But there's NO WAY TO KNOW! And until we do know for sure, it's nuts to work to prevent antibiotic resistance in bacteria." This is why I really don't like "consensus" as "proof." Instead, I like things like "evidence." To me, evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt that evolution has occurred and is occurring. Regardless of whether others believe or do not believe, I like the evidence. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next Page 6 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rushmc 18 #133 January 6, 2008 QuoteUnless your children are never exposed to the world outside of your home,and how in hell to you think this is what I want? they're gonna learn a LOT that you don't teach them. I don't understand how it is that you have a right for your children to learn only what you want them to learn. I just don't get your thinking. So you want the gov to teach morality and anti religion to your kids? As far as sex education being taught in the schools goes, it's a public health issue, for heaven's sake. It has become more than that People die from things they pick up through sexual contact. Seeing the prevalence of disease in society diminish is worth some decent education on the front-end. It would be stupid to assume that parents know anything at all about sexually transmitted disease.... Any parent who is involved with his children's education at all knows that sex education is coming during those pre-teen years. If he's concerned about his child getting correct information about something that pertains to every living human being, then there's always the alternative of being pro-active. Make sure the school understands your position before the deadline. Kind of a no-brainer. Kids are gonna learn all kinds of stuff from their friends (unless, again, they're segregated from society). A lot better that they get accurate information, imho.YEp but I want thier values to come from me, not your government"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #134 January 6, 2008 QuoteSo you want the gov to teach morality and anti religion to your kids? What 'morality' - what 'anti-religion'? Explain your thinking!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #135 January 6, 2008 YEp but I want thier values to come from me, not your government They teach values when they tell kids to "Just Say No to Drugs." In sex ed classes, what they teach is pretty neutral on values, imho. Do you disagree with schools teaching children that it's a bad idea for them to use drugs??? linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #136 January 6, 2008 >And here in lies the rub sir. Neither do you That is correct. The school board does, with input from the community and the state. And within certain limits (i.e. they can't teach Shari'a law instead of civics, or Christian creationism instead of science) they can choose how to structure their curricula. >I am not pushing anything . . . Cool! Then we can leave the schools alone to continue to teach science and health to students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #137 January 6, 2008 It's not a morality issue nor is it anti-religion. It's FACT. Not conjecture or unsubstantiated, unreliable BS (read rythm method). It doesn't promote sex, it says to abstain; but if you WON'T abstain, protect yourself. The school can't and doesn't MAKE your kid have sex, it doesn't even put the thought into your kid's head. It DOES say that placing a barrier (condom) between a penis and a vagina highly reduces the likelihood of pregnancy and STD's. It is NOT an issue of morality, nor is it anti-religious. JAKEE posted a very legitimate question, which I'm assuming you won't answer since he isn't 'MERICAN', so I'll pose it: Do you think science biology classes should contain reproductive curriculum? Should boys and girls know that sperm and an egg form a baby? Should they know that mammals mate differently from fish? Or is this all they should know? .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #138 January 6, 2008 Quote It's not a morality issue nor is it anti-religion. It's FACT. Not conjecture or unsubstantiated, unreliable BS (read rythm method). It doesn't promote sex, it says to abstain; but if you WON'T abstain, protect yourself. The school can't and doesn't MAKE your kid have sex, it doesn't even put the thought into your kid's head. It DOES say that placing a barrier (condom) between a penis and a vagina highly reduces the likelihood of pregnancy and STD's. It is NOT an issue of morality, nor is it anti-religious. JAKEE posted a very legitimate question, which I'm assuming you won't answer since he isn't 'MERICAN', so I'll pose it: Do you think science biology classes should contain reproductive curriculum? Should boys and girls know that sperm and an egg form a baby? Should they know that mammals mate differently from fish?Got no problem with this but, this is not what we are talking about now is itOr is this all they should know? .jim "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #139 January 6, 2008 Yes, it's EXACTLY what we're talking about. Sex is when a male sticks his penis in a female's vagina. That's what Sex Ed is! Do you (religiously) dissapprove of condoms or other contraceptives? .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #140 January 6, 2008 QuoteGot no problem with this but, this is not what we are talking about now is it It kinda is. You don't think that teaching kids how the reproductive system works is a moral issue, but you think that teaching them how STD's, pregnancies and condoms work is a moral issue. Why?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #141 January 7, 2008 QuoteYes, it's EXACTLY what we're talking about. Sex is when a male sticks his penis in a female's vagina. That's what Sex Ed is! Do you (religiously) dissapprove of condoms or other contraceptives?No, but I do disaprove of someone else teaching my kids about it. That is my job. You want to give away that responsibility fine, Just dont ask me to do it because that is what YOU think is OK. .jim This all boils down to being responsible. It is very simple"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #142 January 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteGot no problem with this but, this is not what we are talking about now is it It kinda is. You don't think that teaching kids how the reproductive system works is a moral issue, but you think that teaching them how STD's, pregnancies and condoms work is a moral issue. Why? I have explained it. You dont understand my position. It will just have to stay that way. Oh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. Again, I do not want to stop you from having your kids taught that way. I am only asking that I be allowed to make those same type decisions for my kids. You do not seem to want a parent to be a parent without the nanny gov looking over my shoulder"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #143 January 7, 2008 Again, I do not want to stop you from having your kids taught that way. I am only asking that I be allowed to make those same type decisions for my kids. Good. Then it would be a good idea to make your child's school aware of your position and opt out of the sex ed class. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #144 January 7, 2008 QuoteI have explained it. You dont understand my position. It will just have to stay that way. Oh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. You haven't explained anything. You have stated that it is a morality issue. Why? Why is it a morality issue? More bizarre is your attempt to tie it into the constitution by making it a religious thing. How on earth is teaching about how condoms or STD's work anti-religious? What is your reasoning? Tell me why it is an anti-religious and immoral thing?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #145 January 7, 2008 You were allowed. Didn't you say that your kid was given a permission slip that didn't make its way into your hands? Sounds like a lack of responsibility on the child's side, not the schools. QuoteOh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. You haven't been able to present a reasonable argument with regard to what that is. If you can't do that, how can you assess whether or not you're really looking at it "correctly". .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #146 January 7, 2008 It's obvious that you dont see the big picture. Certain issues need to presented to kids even if their parents dont know about them. I'm sorry if I think that sex-ed and free condoms should be offered to kids. I'd rather have 16 year practicing safe sex than having them think 'pullin out' is 'safe sex'. Read up about teenage pregnancy and then get back to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #147 January 7, 2008 Quote You were allowed. Didn't you say that your kid was given a permission slip that didn't make its way into your hands? Sounds like a lack of responsibility on the child's side, not the schools. Quote Oh, and it IS a morality issue when looked at correctly. You haven't been able to present a reasonable argument with regard to what that is. If you can't do that, how can you assess whether or not you're really looking at it "correctly". .jim I sat down to think about this last night as it was apparent to me I was not doing a good job making my point. After some thought consider the following. "Sex Ed" and teaching a boy how to put on a condom is just one symptom of the bigger issue. To illustrate my thoughts, think of the following. Sex is an act that can have (and many times does have) consequences. Those being pregnancy, STD's and the emotional issues that can come with the act. When sex ed moves beyond the biological facts, it changes to a process to help someone avoid any one of these issues. IE, to remove responsibility. Add to this, laws that say a minor girl can go to a free clinic and get birth control or an abortion, with the parents knowlelge or consent and the social reasons to teach "sex ed" become a little clearer. People want to go out and have sex but, they do not want the consequences. (I do not know you but looking at your profile may give me an insite into what you think of yourself and the ladies) Next, to help them (our society) with this desire to remove responsibility, you want to go out and make yourself feel better by teaching MY kids ways the may help them avoid consequences of an adult act. And many of these they can do without my knowlege or consent. So, IMV it is not the class but the reasons for the class. Added to the other reasons I list and it is a social issue, not a biological one. IT IS a morality issue when looked at properly in this context. You want to have the school teach your Johnny how to put on a condom so he can stick little Jenny, cause we all know they will do it anyway Fine, but dont sit there on your high horse and tell me I am the one not helping my kids. Cause I dont buy it. IMO you are the one doing more harm. By teaching these things, combined with the laws, you are the one trying remove responsibility for a choice, you are the one doing harm, not I. In the end you are the one forcingyour views on me and mine. Not the other way around"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #148 January 7, 2008 Quote Yes 'education' - that dastardly codeword for what teachers do. When will the madness end!? What with the continuation of STDs, apparently, the kids are saving the condums for the morning after, to put on their breakfast food. Looks like they CAUGHT the lesson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,626 #149 January 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote> This is about a nanny state, some one else telling me as a parent > what and how it should be taught to my children . . . That's the definition of "public school." You can homeschool your children if you choose. If not, then the public school will teach your kids per its curriculum, not yours. >the argument is still removing parents rights and giving it to the state. Absurd. It is providing a service that you can choose not to avail yourself of. Sorry, but I do not agree. (it may be the definition you want) Public schools are still supposed to be guided by the community they are in. What has happened is the Feds and teachers unions have stepped in to change that. FOR THE Nth TIME - PUBLIC SCHOOL POLICY IS DICTATED BY SCHOOL BOARDS ELECTED BY THE COMMUNITY. NO sir, I agree with this. YOU want courts to dictate to the boards I do? Thanks fpor telling me. I just want boards to refrain from unconstitutional policies. Other than that, they can do what the community wants.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #150 January 7, 2008 QuoteHmm. Time for the antibiotic manufacturers, radical christian groups and Saturday morning cartoon manufacturers to start supporting denial research! That way people could claim "THERE'S NO CONSENSUS! We could have been created in a day, or maybe evolution happened. But there's NO WAY TO KNOW! And until we do know for sure, it's nuts to work to prevent antibiotic resistance in bacteria." This is why I really don't like "consensus" as "proof." Instead, I like things like "evidence." To me, evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt that evolution has occurred and is occurring. Regardless of whether others believe or do not believe, I like the evidence. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next Page 6 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
lawrocket 3 #150 January 7, 2008 QuoteHmm. Time for the antibiotic manufacturers, radical christian groups and Saturday morning cartoon manufacturers to start supporting denial research! That way people could claim "THERE'S NO CONSENSUS! We could have been created in a day, or maybe evolution happened. But there's NO WAY TO KNOW! And until we do know for sure, it's nuts to work to prevent antibiotic resistance in bacteria." This is why I really don't like "consensus" as "proof." Instead, I like things like "evidence." To me, evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt that evolution has occurred and is occurring. Regardless of whether others believe or do not believe, I like the evidence. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
