My Recent Radio Interview for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

[kelpdiver 2]

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Allowing concealed carry permits on campus therefore won't solve the problem. If you consider the possibilty it may in some cases cause similiar situations, wouldn't peoples efforts be better spent on dealing with the cultural and social issues?

It is a horrendous situation becoming far too common, and whilst I recognise armed students could have possibly dealt with the/a gunman, could there then be more actual shootings, from more people carrying weapons?

There's no reason to believe it would increase the frequency of mass shootings, as these sort of people aren't going to be deterred from bringing their weapon on campus. Once a suicidal crazy has the weapons, it's time to focus on the defense. Whether it would increase shootings overall - well that's always been the claim of opposing parties when a state adopts a CCW change and it has yet to happen. Why would on campus be any different?

As for the notion of doing nothing until you can solve the base problem...no progress gets made with that approach.

BTW, the ban on CCWs is an example of a move made without any supporting research.

[Douva 0]

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'Though it's theoretical that allowing concealed carry on college campuses might actually save a life or stop a mass shooting, there is no credible evidence that it would have the opposite effect, so why not allow it? That's been the crux of my argument all along.'


I think a lot of the resistance towards such a move stems from the fact that it won't necessary solve the problem.

The root of the problem lies around cultural and social issues.

Allowing concealed carry permits on campus therefore won't solve the problem. If you consider the possibilty it may in some cases cause similiar situations, wouldn't peoples efforts be better spent on dealing with the cultural and social issues?

It is a horrendous situation becoming far too common, and whilst I recognise armed students could have possibly dealt with the/a gunman, could there then be more actual shootings, from more people carrying weapons? Despite what research is done into this question, it will always remain a possibility that people will be painfully aware of, and more importantly, it won't deal with the real source of issue.

As I understand the notion of a free society, the people are not to be denied a right unless there is empirical evidence that granting that right will infringe upon the rights of others.

As I have clearly shown, there is little to no fact-based evidence suggesting that allowing concealed carry on college campuses would increase the rate of violent crime on college campuses or make things worse, in any other way, on college campuses. So if there's no real evidence that it will hurt, and if it has the potential to help, what is the justification for prohibiting it?

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[JohnRich 4]

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As I have clearly shown, there is little to no fact-based evidence suggesting that allowing concealed carry on college campuses would increase the rate of violent crime on college campuses or make things worse, in any other way, on college campuses. So if there's no real evidence that it will hurt, and if it has the potential to help, what is the justification for prohibiting it?

That's an excellent synopsis of the logical argument.

Answer: Paranoid irrational fear: "gun-o-phobia".

Like trying to allow airline pilots to be armed against hijackers, there is an enormous amount of anti-gun inertia to overcome for this issue. But once the knee-jerk hysteria subsided, the myths were busted and the logic explained, it happened.

Keep plugging away, and it will come about, sooner or later. People stood up and took notice of that armed female security guard at the Colorado church who stopped a massacre. We just need more colleges to break ground for this effort, and then for time to pass without incidents, and the word to get out...

It has taken several decades for the concealed carry movement to sweep across the country, but there are now 40+ states that allow it, all without problems. The anti-gun chicken-little's look like the stupid little fools that they are when they keep repeating their "sky is falling" mantra, in the face of such massive evidence to the contrary.

Some day we'll look back upon the issue of no-gun zones in the same manner.

[vortexring 0]

I recognise the logic - but the matter isn't black and white as you allude to. People who don't agree with your views can't all be painted with your 'gun-o-phobia' brush - as I'm sure you're well aware.

Essentially you're saying such people are paranoid and fearful, and 'stupid little fools'! Now, that's out of order because it simply isn't the case, whilst it also implicates that people on your side of the fence to be the opposite.

In my view it's the people who insist on continually carrying a weapon as being a touch fearful and paranoid.
It's also a fairly immature way of debating your point.

I've been in the military most of my adult life, and been on operations all over the world. Yet off duty, I've never felt the desire to carry weapon. Does that make me a gun-o-phobe? Does it make me paranoid and fearful and a stupid little fool?

I've tried to imagine my children as being students in America - and whether or not I'd like them to carry. Whilst I may achieve some relief to my anxiety and fear if they are carrying, I'd be directing my energies more towards the cause of them having to carry in the first place.

Your essentially arguing for a quick fix solution which long term may have a more detrimental effect, where regular shootings are accepted as the norm. Where young adults going to lectures tooled up is accepted as the norm.

Fuck that.

But just to make my point crystal clear! I'm not completely against Douva's points. Far from it. But I continually see this; 'Im right and everyone who doesn't agree is an idiot' attitude. And it achieves nothing.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[mnealtx 0]

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I recognise the logic - but the matter isn't black and white as you allude to. People who don't agree with your views can't all be painted with your 'gun-o-phobia' brush - as I'm sure you're well aware.

Essentially you're saying such people are paranoid and fearful, and 'stupid little fools'! Now, that's out of order because it simply isn't the case, whilst it also implicates that people on your side of the fence to be the opposite.

In my view it's the people who insist on continually carrying a weapon as being a touch fearful and paranoid.
It's also a fairly immature way of debating your point.

And yet, you just did EXACTLY what you accused him of doing...too funny!!

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I've been in the military most of my adult life, and been on operations all over the world. Yet off duty, I've never felt the desire to carry weapon. Does that make me a gun-o-phobe? Does it make me paranoid and fearful and a stupid little fool?

Nope - but yet you label those that DO wish to carry as being paranoid/fearful.

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I've tried to imagine my children as being students in America - and whether or not I'd like them to carry. Whilst I may achieve some relief to my anxiety and fear if they are carrying, I'd be directing my energies more towards the cause of them having to carry in the first place.

If you've got some sort of magic wand to get rid of the criminals (the only way you're going to solve that problem), then start waving it.

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Your essentially arguing for a quick fix solution which long term may have a more detrimental effect, where regular shootings are accepted as the norm. Where young adults going to lectures tooled up is accepted as the norm.

Actually, no, the "let's get rid of all the guns" is the quick-fix solution that isn't working. Up until GCA 68, anyone could walk down the street packing and nobody thought it odd.

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Fuck that.

I agree - fuck the bastards that want to take away MY right to defend myself.

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But just to make my point crystal clear! I'm not completely against Douva's points. Far from it. But I continually see this; 'Im right and everyone who doesn't agree is an idiot' attitude. And it achieves nothing.

And yet, you argue from exactly that position...imagine that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Nightingale 0]

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In my view it's the people who insist on continually carrying a weapon as being a touch fearful and paranoid.

I know too many people who have been robbed, hurt or raped because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time to believe that arming yourself is fearful and paranoid. Have you, a friend, or family member ever been a victim of a violent crime? I hope not, but the experience does change your perspective, because it makes you realize that nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe, and and believing that nothing bad will happen to you does not make it so.

You can do things to be safer, but since you cannot control the actions of others, you are never going to be in a situation where nothing bad can happen. I'd rather plan and prepare for something happening than be a victim if I don't have to be.

[mnealtx 0]

Well said, Kris

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[KidWicked 0]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[mnealtx 0]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

You cannot *disprove* it, either...and I don't think ANYONE prefers to live in fear.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[KidWicked 0]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

You cannot *disprove* it, either

Yikes. That is some mental gymnastics.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[mnealtx 0]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

You cannot *disprove* it, either

Yikes. That is some mental gymnastics.

So is the belief that someone that has a weapon for self-defense is "living in fear".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[KidWicked 0]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

You cannot *disprove* it, either

Yikes. That is some mental gymnastics.

So is the belief that someone that has a weapon for self-defense is "living in fear".

If you have made a conscious choice to believe something that cannot be proven, then yes, I call that irrational.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[mnealtx 0]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

You cannot *disprove* it, either

Yikes. That is some mental gymnastics.

So is the belief that someone that has a weapon for self-defense is "living in fear".

If you have made a conscious choice to believe something that cannot be proven, then yes, I call that irrational.

Hmm... you say that "nobody anywhere is really safe" cannot be proven. I say that it can't be *disproven* and I'm the one that's irrational?

Yeah, ok buddy....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

It's actually pretty easy to prove that women are at risk of assault and rape. Much less so for murder, esp from non SOs.

Care to provide your height, weight?

[Douva 0]

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nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe

That can't be proven. It is, in fact, a belief that you have chosen to hold. I prefer not to live in fear.

Yes, KidWicked, your astuteness continues to wow us all.

For the second time in this thread, somebody has successfully pointed out that you can't prove a negative.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[billvon 2,406]

>you are never going to be in a situation where nothing bad can happen.

Agreed. And a gun doesn't change that. (Indeed, it sometimes _causes_ those very situations.) Which is why it should not be seen as a "shield" against danger. It is a dangerous item that can help you defend yourself, but can also turn a foolish mistake into an instantly fatal one.

[Nightingale 0]

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>you are never going to be in a situation where nothing bad can happen.

Agreed. And a gun doesn't change that. (Indeed, it sometimes _causes_ those very situations.) Which is why it should not be seen as a "shield" against danger. It is a dangerous item that can help you defend yourself, but can also turn a foolish mistake into an instantly fatal one.

I completely agree, which is why nobody should be carrying a weapon that they have not trained with and are not competent to use. I see my guns the same way I see my martial arts: as a last-resort "gotta do something or I'm going to die" choice. Weapons and training provide you with options where you would otherwise have none, but there is a liability inherent in virtually every advantage, so it is up to the individual to choose which risks to live with and which ones to mitigate.

[vortexring 0]

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I recognise the logic - but the matter isn't black and white as you allude to. People who don't agree with your views can't all be painted with your 'gun-o-phobia' brush - as I'm sure you're well aware.

Essentially you're saying such people are paranoid and fearful, and 'stupid little fools'! Now, that's out of order because it simply isn't the case, whilst it also implicates that people on your side of the fence to be the opposite.

In my view it's the people who insist on continually carrying a weapon as being a touch fearful and paranoid.
It's also a fairly immature way of debating your point.

And yet, you just did EXACTLY what you accused him of doing...too funny!! Did I?

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I've been in the military most of my adult life, and been on operations all over the world. Yet off duty, I've never felt the desire to carry weapon. Does that make me a gun-o-phobe? Does it make me paranoid and fearful and a stupid little fool?

Nope - but yet you label those that DO wish to carry as being paranoid/fearful. Light heartedly - the smiley face implies humour. Really.

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I've tried to imagine my children as being students in America - and whether or not I'd like them to carry. Whilst I may achieve some relief to my anxiety and fear if they are carrying, I'd be directing my energies more towards the cause of them having to carry in the first place.

If you've got some sort of magic wand to get rid of the criminals (the only way you're going to solve that problem), then start waving it. I'd start by more effective campus security - and that would make a difference. PM me if you're not sure how.

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Your essentially arguing for a quick fix solution which long term may have a more detrimental effect, where regular shootings are accepted as the norm. Where young adults going to lectures tooled up is accepted as the norm.

Actually, no, the "let's get rid of all the guns" is the quick-fix solution that isn't working. Up until GCA 68, anyone could walk down the street packing and nobody thought it odd. The good old days, eh? Well, times are a changing mate, best get on the bus.

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Fuck that.

I agree - fuck the bastards that want to take away MY right to defend myself. There's a bit more to it than that.

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But just to make my point crystal clear! I'm not completely against Douva's points. Far from it. But I continually see this; 'Im right and everyone who doesn't agree is an idiot' attitude. And it achieves nothing.

And yet, you argue from exactly that position...imagine that.

Wrong.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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In my view it's the people who insist on continually carrying a weapon as being a touch fearful and paranoid.

I know too many people who have been robbed, hurt or raped because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time to believe that arming yourself is fearful and paranoid. Have you, a friend, or family member ever been a victim of a violent crime? I hope not, but the experience does change your perspective, because it makes you realize that nobody, anywhere, is ever really safe, and and believing that nothing bad will happen to you does not make it so.




Kris, myself, family and friends are from the Glasgow area in Scotland. A recent statistic claimed it to be the murder capital of the Western world. Whether it is the murder capital, I cannot say, but I can say it can be relatively violent.

So what do you think?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Nightingale 0]

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Kris, myself, family and friends are from the Glasgow area in Scotland. A recent statistic claimed it to be the murder capital of the Western world. Whether it is the murder capital, I cannot say, but I can say it can be relatively violent.

So what do you think?

Do you think the situation might have turned out better for the victim had they been able to fight back?

[kallend 1,635]

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Kris, myself, family and friends are from the Glasgow area in Scotland. A recent statistic claimed it to be the murder capital of the Western world. Whether it is the murder capital, I cannot say, but I can say it can be relatively violent.

So what do you think?

Do you think the situation might have turned out better for the victim had they been able to fight back?

Like street gang members do?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AWL71 0]

The situation that just occured in the mountains of GA goes to show that you need to be prepared. A 24 year old woman was walking alone in the mountains on New Years Day and her body just turned up yesterday. She was kidnapped and killed by some 64 year old creep. Did she think that anything was going to happen to her when she left for her walk? She did not. And now she is dead. I am not saying she should pack a gun but at least carry some mace. Just goes to show that anything can happen at any time. There is nothing wrong with being prepared. And claiming that those who are prepared live in fear is asinine.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[Nightingale 0]

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Kris, myself, family and friends are from the Glasgow area in Scotland. A recent statistic claimed it to be the murder capital of the Western world. Whether it is the murder capital, I cannot say, but I can say it can be relatively violent.

So what do you think?

Do you think the situation might have turned out better for the victim had they been able to fight back?

Like street gang members do?

No. I'm not saying the victim should start a gang war.

Do you believe a victim should not fight back against their attacker?

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you've got some sort of magic wand to get rid of the criminals (the only way you're going to solve that problem), then start waving it. I'd start by more effective campus security - and that would make a difference. PM me if you're not sure how.

Why via PM? If you have a magic answer, the Oakland and San Francisco PDs would love to hear it.

But I fairly sure you're blowing smoke.

[mnealtx 0]

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If you've got some sort of magic wand to get rid of the criminals (the only way you're going to solve that problem), then start waving it. I'd start by more effective campus security - and that would make a difference. PM me if you're not sure how.

Why via PM? If you have a magic answer, the Oakland and San Francisco PDs would love to hear it.

But I fairly sure you're blowing smoke.

I'd like to see him post it as well.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706