Lefty 0 #76 October 24, 2007 Quote Quote Nice piece, well written. I do not agree that thousands of armed but untrained 18-22 year olds on college campuses is a wonderful idea, though. I do not think the 18-22 year old population can be compared with the CCW population as a whole, which is rather more mature. How about older, more mature, college professors? It would've been nice if a few of them had been able to shoot back in the Virginia Tech incident. I'd rather not rely on Kallend to defend me. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #77 October 24, 2007 QuoteWhich article of the Constitution gives the right to protect others when on someone else's property? Just curious. I think I could make a good argument* that it is conveyed by the Preamble and the Second Amendment, especially when read in conjunction: Quote Preamble: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. *Come to think of it, I already have: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2971378#2971378 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #78 October 24, 2007 I was thinking of the Professor who stood in the doorway and faced that murdering piece of shit in order to allow his students to have the opportunity to escape. He was a holocaust survivor, and I am certain he knew what he was facing. If he had a gun, he most likely would have killed that murdering piece of shit on the spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #79 October 24, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Can you imagine this on a college campus where this happens every day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No I honestly cannot. Of course not..you live in a perfect world. I dont. Accidental gun shootings happen quite often. Mix in college drunken parties, cheating girfriends/boyfriends, fraternity show off jocks, football games gone wrong, pissed off asian nerds who get a B on their exam, and legal guns make all the perfect sense. Accidental shootings? I have heard of ND, but accidental shootings are a myth perpetuated by a biased media. How can a firearm accidently discharge just sitting there all alone minding it's own business. If it fired there was a human being handling it. That is a ND resulting in a shooting. Right, and there are no such things as car accidents, motorbike accidents, ski accidents or airplane accidents either. Just myths perpertuated by a biased media.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #80 October 24, 2007 Nice. I take it the Washington Post didn't print it (assuming you sent it to them). "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #81 October 25, 2007 QuoteNice. I take it the Washington Post didn't print it (assuming you sent it to them). Unless syndicated it's generally considered poor form to send the same piece to more than one newspaper.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #82 October 25, 2007 Quote Outside of BYU, how many schools see a lot of students with 4 year olds? "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #83 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteNice. I take it the Washington Post didn't print it (assuming you sent it to them). Unless syndicated it's generally considered poor form to send the same piece to more than one newspaper. Thanks. I failed to consider that. The writer exhibited good judgement, then, by selecting the Washington Times to send it to. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #84 October 25, 2007 Outstanding piece!So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btvr 0 #85 October 25, 2007 Well hell... Why don't we just ban cars and parchutes for all the accidental deaths caused by them? See how silly that sounds? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #86 October 25, 2007 Quote Quote Hey, know what? Fuck you. Ca. gun laws suck. Ahh, one of those Law Abiding citizens who abides only those laws he agrees with...and a temper. I'm Irish. What do you expect. BUT. I know to keep my finger off the trigger unless LIFE or DEATH. I'd rather bare knuckle any day but the world doesn't work that way anymore. I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #87 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteNice. I take it the Washington Post didn't print it (assuming you sent it to them). Unless syndicated it's generally considered poor form to send the same piece to more than one newspaper. Thanks. I failed to consider that. The writer exhibited good judgement, then, by selecting the Washington Times to send it to. Yes, the Revd. Sun Young Moon certainly runs a class operation.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #88 October 25, 2007 Quote Quote Learn how to spell asshole You are gonna get yourself shot son. I have your son hanging.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #89 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Nice piece, well written. I do not agree that thousands of armed but untrained 18-22 year olds on college campuses is a wonderful idea, though. I do not think the 18-22 year old population can be compared with the CCW population as a whole, which is rather more mature. While I understand your point, I disagree - the 18-22 year olds that are mature enough to go through the hassles of getting a CCW license are less likely (IMO) to twist off than the average. Please note... I said "less likely IMO", not "immune" - I think that virtually anyone could go off their nut under the right stimulus. Reducing the set from 18-22 year olds to 18-22 year olds who obtain a CCW license does not make them any more mature than the set of CCW holders as a whole. Kallend's point stands. Blues, Dave No, it doesn't, actually. He's still trying to say that all those people would be untrained, which is a falsehood. Most states (not all, but the majority) that allow CCW require training. It's also been shown that CCW holders break fewer laws than the general populace (less than police as a whole, in fact). Therefore, the fact that said 18-22 year olds are willing to go through the classes and training and other hassles to secure a CCW license and accept the responsibility of carrying a weapon DOES make them comparable in maturity (for this purpose) as an older CCW holder.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #90 October 25, 2007 Quote Quote Ever consider the average age of a gun weilding military member? Weapons training is still a part of recruit training last I heard. (except maybe the Air Farce ) Ever consider how many accidental deaths from legal guns we have every year. I am sure I dont need to go digging for stats since this is a common occurence. Recently we have the NASA astronaut wanting to kill another astronaut for taking her man. Can you imagine this on a college campus where this happens every day. Nahhh...accidents, or murder using legal guns would never happen once we give the go ahead for college students to carry legal guns on campus. Got something withOUT the hyperbole? Ever consider how many deaths we have from ILLEGAL guns each year? It is estimated that guns are used (by normal citizens) to prevent crime several hundred THOUSAND times a year.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #91 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteBad guys getting illegal guns is pretty much the only argument you guys pose for legal gun ownership, but when a 4 year old kid acidentally blows his brains out with a legal gun, guns no longer sound like such a great idea. I grew up in a household with numerous guns...I was taught from an early age on how to handle them . They were never locked up and we did not touch the guns. My Kid grew up in a house with numerous guns...Most were locked away except for the one I carry.....he also started shooting when he was 5 and went hunting for the first time for big game at age 12( Its a family thing) Responsible gun owners teach responsibility from an early age. He never misused the guns I hear you on that; the only thing is we can’t look at this issue from an individual perspective. Yes, your family was responsible, but that doesn’t mean that ALL families are responsible...even if they play by the law book, and do everything legally. We do not make laws for individuals, but for the masses. And when you look at the mass you see accidental death over and over and over….much of which is with legal guns. Guns are made to kill. Bad guys will kill regardless of whether they have guns or not, and if the guns are legal or not…but accidents can be prevented. So, then you're FOR getting rid of alcohol, guns, cars, swimming pools...all causing more accidental deaths than guns.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #92 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo to extrapolate on that way of thinking... we should eliminate all credit information. oh and cars, baseball bats, scissors, skydiving too (it's killed more people than guns on campus you know), kitchen knives, fireworks, aircraft, horses, fireplaces, oh! matches too..... Gimme a few, I'm still thinking of the accepted risks in life. Just my opinion mind you... I knew someone was going to say that. All the things you named have a purpose outside of kiling. A gun's only purpose is to kill. Really? Mine must be broken then... they've only shot paper and a few tin cans.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #93 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuote Accidental shootings? I have heard of ND, but accidental shootings are a myth perpetuated by a biased media. How can a firearm accidently discharge just sitting there all alone minding it's own business. If it fired there was a human being handling it. That is a ND resulting in a shooting. Right, and there are no such things as car accidents, motorbike accidents, ski accidents or airplane accidents either. Just myths perpertuated by a biased media. He *does* have a point, Professor... while a shooting may be accidental (in the sense of the shooter saying "I didn't mean for it to go off"), I've never heard of any instances where the shooter *didn't* squeeze the trigger.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #94 October 25, 2007 Quote Quote Ever consider the average age of a gun weilding military member? Weapons training is still a part of recruit training last I heard. (except maybe the Air Farce ) Ever consider how many accidental deaths from legal guns we have every year. I am sure I dont need to go digging for stats since this is a common occurence.... Interesting question. I just checked the CDC website. The latest data they had was for 2004. In 2004 there were 649 unintentional firearm deaths for all ages. Population was 293,638,158 Rate/100,000 people = .22. For ages 0-4, 15 deaths, ages 5-9 13 deaths, ages 10-14, 35 deaths, ages 15-19 80 deaths, ages 20-24 92 deaths, age 25+ 414 deaths. 2004 unintentional: firearm deaths = 649 suffocation deaths = 5,891 drowning = 3,308 falls = 18,807 cut/pierce = 107 poisoning = 20,950 bicycle = 637 http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #95 October 25, 2007 Ban the bicycles, accidental deaths are killing all the children!!!Yeah so called "accidental deaths" are oh so common. Once again the great lie is exposed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #96 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Accidental shootings? I have heard of ND, but accidental shootings are a myth perpetuated by a biased media. How can a firearm accidently discharge just sitting there all alone minding it's own business. If it fired there was a human being handling it. That is a ND resulting in a shooting. Right, and there are no such things as car accidents, motorbike accidents, ski accidents or airplane accidents either. Just myths perpertuated by a biased media. He *does* have a point, Professor... while a shooting may be accidental (in the sense of the shooter saying "I didn't mean for it to go off"), I've never heard of any instances where the shooter *didn't* squeeze the trigger. You see that will fall upon deaf ears because I said it. If someone else said it, then it would be considered a fact. Personal repsonibility is like a light switch in some peoples reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #97 October 25, 2007 Quote But figure those 10,000 were commited by perhaps 5000 guns, meanwhile 250M other guns did nothing. Compare that to the criminal rates of the 250M humans in the country. A lot more than 5000 bad ones. "acceptable level of loss of human life"? ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #98 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Accidental shootings? I have heard of ND, but accidental shootings are a myth perpetuated by a biased media. How can a firearm accidently discharge just sitting there all alone minding it's own business. If it fired there was a human being handling it. That is a ND resulting in a shooting. Right, and there are no such things as car accidents, motorbike accidents, ski accidents or airplane accidents either. Just myths perpertuated by a biased media. He *does* have a point, Professor... while a shooting may be accidental (in the sense of the shooter saying "I didn't mean for it to go off"), I've never heard of any instances where the shooter *didn't* squeeze the trigger. And I've never heard an instance where a plane started its engine(s), took off and crashed all by itself.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #99 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Accidental shootings? I have heard of ND, but accidental shootings are a myth perpetuated by a biased media. How can a firearm accidently discharge just sitting there all alone minding it's own business. If it fired there was a human being handling it. That is a ND resulting in a shooting. Right, and there are no such things as car accidents, motorbike accidents, ski accidents or airplane accidents either. Just myths perpertuated by a biased media. He *does* have a point, Professor... while a shooting may be accidental (in the sense of the shooter saying "I didn't mean for it to go off"), I've never heard of any instances where the shooter *didn't* squeeze the trigger. And I've never heard an instance where a plane started its engine(s), took off and crashed all by itself. Agreed - but you HAVE heard of pilot error or mechanical failure. His point (which I agree with) is that, barring mechanical failures (which I've never heard of any instances of) all the accidental shootings are 'pilot error'.... NEGLIGENT discharges, which is MUCH different than ACCIDENTAL discharges.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #100 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Accidental shootings? I have heard of ND, but accidental shootings are a myth perpetuated by a biased media. How can a firearm accidently discharge just sitting there all alone minding it's own business. If it fired there was a human being handling it. That is a ND resulting in a shooting. Right, and there are no such things as car accidents, motorbike accidents, ski accidents or airplane accidents either. Just myths perpertuated by a biased media. He *does* have a point, Professor... while a shooting may be accidental (in the sense of the shooter saying "I didn't mean for it to go off"), I've never heard of any instances where the shooter *didn't* squeeze the trigger. And I've never heard an instance where a plane started its engine(s), took off and crashed all by itself. Agreed - but you HAVE heard of pilot error or mechanical failure. His point (which I agree with) is that, barring mechanical failures (which I've never heard of any instances of) all the accidental shootings are 'pilot error'.... NEGLIGENT discharges, which is MUCH different than ACCIDENTAL discharges. I am not getting your point. Are you saying that humans can't have accidents, only things can have accidents?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
