NAACP: Vick Should Return to the NFL

[rushmc 18]

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This whole thing bugs the crap out of me. What Vic did is lower than low. But to raise a punishment for a way someone treats an animal to that bordering on a punishment for how a human was treated.

Well, lets just say I have alot of thinking yet to do on this one

I would refer you back up to billvon's post. He said it much better than I.

As to your point. I believe the crimes you reference have to low a punishment

the legal punishments on this are pretty low - we're talking a year in jail. Kill a person consciously and you're not doing that well, same for aggravated assault.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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This whole thing bugs the crap out of me. What Vic did is lower than low. But to raise a punishment for a way someone treats an animal to that bordering on a punishment for how a human was treated.

A person can go to jail for humanely putting an animal out of its misery if the right people see it happen.
Since crimes today can be based on someone's supposed mindset toward another person, instead of just the act itself,I don't see why the same shouldn't be applied to some clown who drowns or stomps a dog to death, just because it didn't perform to his standards. There's definately something wrong in that man's mind.

Good points indeed but what about this. Who's viewpoint sets the threshold we base what is and what is not criminal when it comes to treatment of animals? PETA? In that context then how are the penaties set?

Extreem example for sure but does it help me make the point?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[stayhigh 2]

all those ppl in Alaska, making little Huskeys pulling sled should go to jail too..

think about it, if i was in dog's shoe, i'd rather fight in the ring and die vs pulling some fat fuck through the snow all day for rest of my life..

it is just an animal,, we eat them for crying out loud,.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Royd 0]

all those ppl in Alaska, making little Huskeys pulling sled should go to jail too..

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think about it, if i was in dog's shoe, i'd rather fight in the ring and die vs pulling some fat fuck through the snow all day for rest of my life..

Not if you were designed to live in the cold and run like a bat out of hell.

[Royd 0]

This whole thing bugs the crap out of me. What Vic did is lower than low. But to raise a punishment for a way someone treats an animal to that bordering on a punishment for how a human was treated.

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A person can go to jail for humanely putting an animal out of its misery if the right people see it happen.
Since crimes today can be based on someone's supposed mindset toward another person, instead of just the act itself,I don't see why the same shouldn't be applied to some clown who drowns or stomps a dog to death, just because it didn't perform to his standards. There's definately something wrong in that man's mind.

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Good points indeed but what about this. Who's viewpoint sets the threshold we base what is and what is not criminal when it comes to treatment of animals? PETA? In that context then how are the penaties set?

Extreem example for sure but does it help me make the point?

Actually, I believe that the proper treatment of animals is addressed in the Bible. I think that common sense should prevail. Withholding food, water or comfort, either through negligence or for the purpose of punishment, which is a waste of effort, would be a good starting point.

[stayhigh 2]

Royd said, Not if you were designed to live in the cold and run like a bat out of hell.


I think those dogs(one that Vick was using) were designed to hunt and kill too.. and meant to get hurt(may die) while hunting and killing other animal. If the master chooses to hunt down other dogs than so be it.

they are fuckin animal for god sake, why are animal get better treatment than porn stars? they are both bitchs..

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Royd 0]

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I think those dogs(one that Vick was using) were designed to hunt and kill too.. and meant to get hurt(may die) while hunting and killing other animal. If the master chooses to hunt down other dogs than so be it.

they are fuckin animal for god sake,

There's a difference between two animals in nature and being put in a pit, and being forced to fight to the death. BTW, I don't believe that there are doggy treadmills for training in nature. Many of these people are also using steriods on the animals. Doesn't sound natural to me.

Are you saying that animal abuse is just subjective?

[pirana 0]

What do you expect of the NAACP. They are a separatist organization by nature of their scope. They are a political organization by their agenda.

To me, any organization that seeks specific goals on behalf of only certain races is rascist. They may have all good intentions, but nonetheless they focus their attention first and foremost based on the criteria of race.

If they dropped the C, I'd be a fan. As it is, they are more an obstacle than a solution to the ultimate goal of all people being treated the same. They act more as a crutch when they make excuses for people like Vick. The people they make excuses for need a kick in the ass - not another crutch.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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Are you saying that animal abuse is just subjective?

Yes.

Millions of animals have been "abused" in the name of science, technology or even just the make up industry.

[billvon 2,435]

> Are you saying that animal abuse is just subjective?

Yes. Farmed chickens are subjected to far worse, but people don't mind because they're not lovable like dogs are. Rats (which are smarter than dogs, but most people don't like them) are treated even worse than that. Rabbits, kangaroos, and monkeys are regularly injured and then destroyed for medical and food purposes.

Fortunately, we are getting better about treating animals well - but we have a ways to go.

[skydyvr 0]

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Farmed chickens are subjected to far worse. . .

Don' get me stahted . . .

. . =(_8^(1)

[NCclimber 0]

How we treat animals in this country is subjective. Plenty of meateaters consider their pets to be family. What matters is how we view Michael Vicks actions. By and large, we consider them barbaric and inhumane. In a different era, it might not matter. But in the US, in 2007, his actions are very offensive to most of us.

[jlmiracle 7]

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all those ppl in Alaska, making little Huskeys pulling sled should go to jail too..

think about it, if i was in dog's shoe, i'd rather fight in the ring and die vs pulling some fat fuck through the snow all day for rest of my life..

it is just an animal,, we eat them for crying out loud,.

i don't eat dog or Kangaroo or rabbit or monkey.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[billvon 2,435]

>By and large, we consider them barbaric and inhumane.

I agree. I hope we start extending that judgment to animals that we consider less cute as well. Cuteness should not be what determines how cruel one can be to an animal.

[Casurf1978 0]

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But killing an animal will always be a much, much less severe crime than harming or killing a human being.

I agree, but look at the entire picture. From what I've been reading gangs and organized crime are involved in dogfighting, in a way Vick supported them with his involvement in it. IMO Vick should never be allowed to play in the NFL again. Make an example out of him. I'm sick of celebrities and super star athletes getting second, third and fourth chances.

[sv3n 0]

Petition against Vick: http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPVICK/petition.html

Nearly three dozen dogs, how ridiculous. I believe it shows a complete disregard for life. By taking in an animal as a pet you are thereby accepting the responsibility for their care and safety just like when you have children. The argument that we eat animals has absolutely nothing to do with this as those animals are raised for food and not to be pets. I am by no means advocating the practices used in today's meat industry, but these were pets...not animals raised to be food.

He should spend the max sentence in prison and be fined millions of dollars to be divided among the different humane societies across the country. That's the only way there can be any real justice in this. I'm sorry, but I am of the firm belief that children and animals are innocents and therefore are untouchable. You should value all life, not just what's convenient. We may need some animals for food, as this is just a fact of life.....but there is no excuse for causing any living being to suffer for your own enjoyment.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[billvon 2,435]

>but these were pets...not animals raised to be food.

These were not raised as pets _or_ as food. They were raised to fight.

>but I am of the firm belief that children and animals are innocents and
>therefore are untouchable.

I will never agree that children and animals are even close to the same category when it comes to how we should punish people who abuse/kill them.

>We may need some animals for food, as this is just a fact of life.

If you truly believed what you said, you would live without eating meat. It's quite possible, and for most people, doing so will make you live a longer, healthier life.

I suspect you eat meat because (like most people) you like it. That's fine. But that also sets a limit to how seriously I can take your moral outrage when it comes to animal abuse; 90% of the animal abuse in this country happens in the meat industry. Being outraged at something until you're a bit hungry diminishes the magnitude of said outrage IMO.

[sv3n 0]

What is a dog licensed as? A pet, right? In this country they are pets not inanimate objects that you can do with as you please.

And if you don't think their life has the same value...what would happen if you were to harm a police dog? Would you get a slap on the wrist with the mindset of "oh it's just a dog"?

While you may not agree with it, I believe you should respect and value all life.

But at the same time, if you take note of the rest of the planet, life feeds on life......wether it's plants or animals. Eating meat is not disrespectful to that as it's nature's course. I already said, I don't condone what happens in the meat industry......I think it's horrific. But I can only control my actions and educate my children to have the same respect.

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>but these were pets...not animals raised to be food.

These were not raised as pets _or_ as food. They were raised to fight.

>but I am of the firm belief that children and animals are innocents and
>therefore are untouchable.

I will never agree that children and animals are even close to the same category when it comes to how we should punish people who abuse/kill them.

>We may need some animals for food, as this is just a fact of life.

If you truly believed what you said, you would live without eating meat. It's quite possible, and for most people, doing so will make you live a longer, healthier life.

I suspect you eat meat because (like most people) you like it. That's fine. But that also sets a limit to how seriously I can take your moral outrage when it comes to animal abuse; 90% of the animal abuse in this country happens in the meat industry. Being outraged at something until you're a bit hungry diminishes the magnitude of said outrage IMO.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[billvon 2,435]

>What is a dog licensed as? A pet, right? In this country they are pets
>not inanimate objects that you can do with as you please.

Laws vary from state to state. California penal code 594-625c section 597L:
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"Pet animals" means dogs, cats, monkeys and other primates,
rabbits, birds, guinea pigs, hamsters, mice, snakes, iguanas,
turtles, and any other species of animal sold or retained for the
purpose of being kept as a household pet.
-----

Even though mice can be raised as pets, that does not mean that they cannot be used as (for example) lab animals - and they certainly do not have the same rights as a human.

>While you may not agree with it, I believe you should respect and value all life.

We should. Like I said before:

1) animals are different from people, and should be treated differently

2) you should treat ALL higher animals with respect.

[sv3n 0]

I think you're misunderstanding me a bit.

Animals and children being innocents..........as pets animals just like children depend on you for their care, you are their guardian, they don't know any better.

Respect for life.....I would put neither my child or any animal in danger on purpose.....especially something as sick as for my amusement. Are you gonna let your kid run through traffic just cause you think it's funny? Now would you do the same with your dog?

The difference between my child and my dog....my child is my life and my dog is my best friend....not literally but I'm sure you get what I mean. I care for them both, and while my dog is like a kid, my child take precedent.


What exactly would constitute a "higher" animal to you?

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>What is a dog licensed as? A pet, right? In this country they are pets
>not inanimate objects that you can do with as you please.

Laws vary from state to state. California penal code 594-625c section 597L:
------
"Pet animals" means dogs, cats, monkeys and other primates,
rabbits, birds, guinea pigs, hamsters, mice, snakes, iguanas,
turtles, and any other species of animal sold or retained for the
purpose of being kept as a household pet.
-----

Even though mice can be raised as pets, that does not mean that they cannot be used as (for example) lab animals - and they certainly do not have the same rights as a human.

>While you may not agree with it, I believe you should respect and value all life.

We should. Like I said before:

1) animals are different from people, and should be treated differently

2) you should treat ALL higher animals with respect.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[livendive 8]

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animals are different from people, and should be treated differently

Just to stir the pot, I'd like to know why you feel that way.

I think there are three good reasons to kill animals: to eat them, in self-defense, or because they're pests. Raising (and torturing) for the express purpose of inflicting pain and killing definitively qualifies someone as a sick fuck in my book.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,435]

>I think there are three good reasons to kill animals: to eat them, in
>self-defense, or because they're pests.

It looks like you feel that animals are different than people, then! (you can't kill people who are pests, or because you're hungry.)

It seems clear to me that we protect members of our own species because we believe that we are both entitled to and able to safely exercise certain rights; such rights are listed in various documents and constitutions throughout the world. Animals are entitled to fewer rights since they cannot express complex thoughts, ask for things, or function in a normal society. It would be absurd to put a pit bull on trial for murder because they cannot comprehend why that's wrong - and would be absurd to expect a shark to not eat people because it's against the law.

>Raising (and torturing) for the express purpose of inflicting pain and
>killing definitively qualifies someone as a sick fuck in my book.

How about people who raise rats for scientific experiments, or who use rodents as minesweepers? What about people who raise chickens for food, cut their beaks off (so they can't fight) and stuff em in a dark shed until they're ready for slaughter? Or people who raise minks for fur coats?

There's a lot of cruelty out there, much of it legal. Yet we are aghast at what happens to a dog when far more animals are being treated far worse. I hope we come to realize that all higher animals deserve the sort of treatment we think dogs deserve.

[skydyvr 0]

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I don't condone what happens in the meat industry......I think it's horrific.

Ah, a fellow vegan. Welcome!

. . =(_8^(1)

[kelpdiver 2]

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He should spend the max sentence in prison and be fined millions of dollars to be divided among the different humane societies across the country. That's the only way there can be any real justice in this.

so the punishment should be based on the wealth of the person committing it?

I think the lengths he went to conceal his activities indicate that he knew what he was doing was wrong. But animal cruelty still is second tier to human cruelty. It might be suitable to direct his probationary period to be spent working with animal shelters.

--
I think the distinction that is hard to articulate consistently is a disdain for unnecessary pain to animals. Animal testing hurts, but (in concept) there is a value being returned. Foie gras tastes great. But beating dogs to death...is providing entertainment to blood thirsty humans worth? The closest equilivent is bull fighting, and not all bull fights involve killing the bull.

[ntrprnr 0]

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>By and large, we consider them barbaric and inhumane.

I agree. I hope we start extending that judgment to animals that we consider less cute as well. Cuteness should not be what determines how cruel one can be to an animal.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
-- Mohandas Gandhi

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."