TX to execute man they know wasn't the killer

[jakee 1,254]

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This guy is in no way innocent. What don’t you get there??

The innocent people here were the Victims. The ones they Robbed at Gun point and the one they Murdered in his Driveway.

Bad people that did bad things. Good riddance.

NOT Innocent at all. CRIMINALS. Violent Criminals.

Are you blind, or just afraid to address the issue? I'll repeat my post, with helpful emphasis for you.

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And when the criminal justice system gets it wrong?

How many innocent people are you prepared to kill to keep the death penalty? Put it as a percentage of total executions.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

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I agree with you. I don't understand why people are more concerned about the life of the criminal than the life of the victim?

I'm concrened about more innocent lives than you are, since I actually give a fuck about the innocent victims of the criminal justice system as well.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Thanatos340 1]

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And when the criminal justice system gets it wrong?

That is NOT the case here. He did what he is accused of. He is not denying it.

He knowingly drove his Buddies around to commit Armed robbery. Someone got killed while they were doing this.

This is NOT a case of "He might be innocent".

I agree the death penalty should only be for that you are 100% sure they commited the crime. In this case everyone (including the accused) agree, He commited the crime. Driving his buddies around to commit Armed robbery and someone got Killed.

In Texas, That is grounds for execution. If he didnt wwant to get executed maybe he should not have been helping his buddies commit ARMED ROBBERY.

No, I little sympathy for this guy. He did it. He admits he did it. No one says he didnt do it.

This isnt a case of "He is really innocent" or "He didnt do it".

[wmw999 2,121]

The basic disagreement is with the death penalty for being an accessory to murder, and not being an instrument of murder.

Not with his guilt. He's no innocent baby.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Thanatos340 1]

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since I actually give a fuck about the innocent victims of the criminal justice system as well.

The victims are the ones that this guy helped Rob at Gun piint and the guy that was killed. He is not an innocent Victim as you claim, He is a lowlife, scumbag Criminal that partisipated in the MOST Voilent of Crimes.

Calling him an innocent victim is sick.

[jakee 1,254]

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I agree the death penalty should only be for that you are 100% sure they commited the crime.

But that can never happen. It is impossible to limit the death penalty to cases where guilt is 100% certain.

In the real world a justice system that implements capital punishment will always kill innocent people.

How many innocent lives lost are an acceptable consequence of capital punishment?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

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since I actually give a fuck about the innocent victims of the criminal justice system as well.

The victims are the ones that this guy helped Rob at Gun piint and the guy that was killed. He is not an innocent Victim as you claim, He is a lowlife, scumbag Criminal that partisipated in the MOST Voilent of Crimes.

Calling him an innocent victim is sick.

I said no such fucking thing and you damn well know it.

Here's a tip for free, address what I actually say. Setting up distorted strawman arguments like these only makes your own position look weaker.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Thanatos340 1]

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But that can never happen.

Bullshit.
IT is happening here.
The did it. He admits he did it, No one is saying he didnt do it.

How can you say he is innocent?

[Butters 0]

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I agree with you. I don't understand why people are more concerned about the life of the criminal than the life of the victim?

I'm concrened about more innocent lives than you are, since I actually give a fuck about the innocent victims of the criminal justice system as well.

Are you? I believe that more innocent lives are taken by released or escaped criminals than by the criminal justice system.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[jakee 1,254]

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But that can never happen.

Bullshit.
IT is happening here.
The did it. He admits he did it, No one is saying he didnt do it.

How can you say he is innocent?

I said no such fucking thing and you damn well know it.

Here's a tip for free, address what I actually say. Setting up distorted strawman arguments like these only makes your own position look weaker.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

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I agree with you. I don't understand why people are more concerned about the life of the criminal than the life of the victim?

I'm concrened about more innocent lives than you are, since I actually give a fuck about the innocent victims of the criminal justice system as well.

Are you? I believe that more innocent lives are taken by released or escaped criminals than by the criminal justice system.

So in lieu of the death penalty make life mean life. You still permanently remove the criminal from society, but if it later turns out the courts made a mistake you can release him without having to dig him up first.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Thanatos340 1]

You keep bringing up "Innocent Victims". The ONLY innocent Victims in this case are the ones that were Robbed at Gun Point and KILLED by this guy and his friends.

Do we agree on that??

Do you agree that this guy is NOT innocent?

Then why do you keep bringing up Innocent Victims?

Do you think we should lock up killers in a box till they die of natural causes? I personally think executing them is much more humane. If you truly are not going to ever release them, End their misery.

If you are going to release them, Them you are going to be in reality KILLING truly innocent people as the VAST majority of violent criminals that have served time WILL Commit additional Violent Crimes once released.

[jakee 1,254]

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Do you agree that this guy is NOT innocent?

Yep.

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Then why do you keep bringing up Innocent Victims?

Because you cannot judge the pros and cons of the death penalty by looking at a single case in isolation. This man will be executed because the state of Texas uses capital punishment as part of its criminal justice system. Because the state of Texas uses capital punishment in its criminal justice system the state of Texas will execute innocent people. This is an inescapable fact.

By supporting capital punishment you are saying yes, I am willing to let the state kill innocent people. Hence my question, how many?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Thanatos340 1]

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By supporting capital punishment you are saying yes, I am willing to let the state kill innocent people. Hence my question, how many?

Again.. You bring up Innocent. This guy is not innocent as you agreed.

I don’t want to see any innocent people die. Innocent people are the Victims of the criminals.

The instances of a TRULY Innocent person being executed are extremely small. And yes I want to see that number down to NONE.

In the meantime, If a Jury of 12 people can say "Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt" that the person is Guilty of a capitol offence, and then they have exhausted their appeals (Generally about 10 years), Then carry out the sentence.

[Butters 0]

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So in lieu of the death penalty make life mean life. You still permanently remove the criminal from society, but if it later turns out the courts made a mistake you can release him without having to dig him up first.

A person on death row has greater access to the appeals process than a person serving life in prison without parole.

PS: You believe that an innocent person serving life without parole in prison amongst the general population won't be physically or sexually abused?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[jakee 1,254]

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Again.. You bring up Innocent. This guy is not innocent as you agreed.

Did you even read my paragraph before the line you quoted?

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In the meantime, If a Jury of 12 people can say "Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt" that the person is Guilty of a capitol offence,

Jurys do not say beyond a shadow of a doubt, they say beyond reasonable doubt. Right now the only way to get the number of innocent people executed down to none is to put a moratorium on the capital punishment.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

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Driving his buddies around to commit Armed robbery and someone got Killed.

This is a nonsense statement - like driving the car isn't committing armed robbery also

He committed "armed robbery". He didn't commit "Driving the Car used for others to commit Armed Robbery".

Armed robbery means purposely using the threat or act of murder to steal.

So what if he was the driver, the guy that stuff the bag (the little bag with dollar signs on it), the ones that hold the weapon, the one that makes the threats, the ones that cheer and provide moral support, whatever....




Livendive noted "I think capital punishment, if used at all, should be reserved for those criminals who personally, actively, intentionally bring death or great harm to another and maybe those conspire to do so."

I think armed robbery clearly is "conspiring to intentially bring death or great harm to another"


I really think this is all about people being anti-death penalty for any reason - look at the direction the thread is going. Not about the level of an accomplice being responsible the crimes committed by the team he was on.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,254]

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I really think this is all about people being anti-death penalty for any reason - look at the direction the thread is going. Not about the level of an accomplice being responsible the crimes committed by the team he was on.

That's just the way I look at it.

The original post asked if it was acceptable to execute someone for being peripherally involved in a greater crime. To me there are two distinct questions in there that cannot be melded together - as you pointed out.

1) Is the death penalty acceptable? (I think I might have made my view clear)

2) Should accomplices be tried for crimes committed by their companions? (I don't know. The arguments in favour are quite persuasive but I can see how complicated the issues could become)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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He is a lowlife, scumbag Criminal that partisipated in the MOST Voilent of Crimes.

Calling him an innocent victim is sick.

OK you have convinced me.. what other catagories of crime shall we now have the death penalty for...

I think DRUG dealers should all be executed

Lets add in peadophiles and sex criminals for sure....then they can never rape or molest again...

I really hate thieves... I think ALL of them should be put to death immediately.

Car thieves.. yeah... I hate car thieves... my first car was stolen... that really sucked... it was a 1963 Impala SS with a 409.... that certainly deserves the death penalty..I wish they would have stolen the 1959 Triumph TR-3 I replaced it with.. Wisconsin in the winter with an English sportscar was cruel and unusual punishment for a 16 year old. and the fuckers that stole my vette... PUBLIC BEHEADING would not be good enough for them to die so quickly.

[rehmwa 2]

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To me there are two distinct questions in there that cannot be melded together - as you pointed out.

1) Is the death penalty acceptable? (I think I might have made my view clear)

2) Should accomplices be tried for crimes committed by their companions? (I don't know. The arguments in favour are quite persuasive but I can see how complicated the issues could become)

Yup, and since we've beaten #1 to death so many times, then #2 would be a more interesting discussion (IMO).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[livendive 8]

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Livendive noted "I think capital punishment, if used at all, should be reserved for those criminals who personally, actively, intentionally bring death or great harm to another and maybe those conspire to do so."

I think armed robbery clearly is "conspiring to intentially bring death or great harm to another"

Robbery occurs when a person is intimidated or otherwise threatened with violence. The violence itself is a separate offense. Armed robbery occurs when the threat includes the display of a weapon, regardless of whether that gun (e.g.) is real, loaded, or used. If I plan to rob you with a toy gun, am I really conspiring to bring death or great harm to you? If I'm driving you around so you can rob people with an understanding (correct or incorrect) that you're not going to actually kill anyone, have I conspired to kill anyone? In this case, the shooter himself said the condemned man did not know he planned on killing the victim. At a minimum I don't think it meets the "intentional" test, i.e. he didn't mean for anyone to get hurt/killed. He meant for people to be threatened or intimidated into giving up their possessions. If I were picking the relevent charges, the worst I would go with would be manslaughter, not murder, as his actions did bring about the death of another, but without intent to cause that death.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Thanatos340 1]

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OK you have convinced me.. what other catagories of crime shall we now have the death penalty for...

Violent crimes where an Innocent person was killed.

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I think DRUG dealers should all be executed

If they are commiting a Violent Crime while peddling Dope and someone is killed, Sure.

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Lets add in peadophiles and sex criminals for sure....then they can never rape or molest again...

The most sick and Violent of all crimes. Absolutely. fortuanately the other inmates generally do this service for us when they get to prison. Save alot of time and money. I would like to start an incentive program though.. For each Child molester an Inmate Kills, they get one year off thier sentance.

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I really hate thieves... I think ALL of them should be put to death immediately.

If they are commiting a Violent Crime and someone gets killed.. DO it.

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Car thieves.. yeah... I hate car thieves

We used to Hang Horse theives. But I guess I am getting to liberal in my old age. I Wouldnt unless they used VIOLENCE to steal the car and an innocent person got killed. Then, Absolutely.

[Thanatos340 1]

Would it matter to you if this was Gang Member with a lengthy history of Violent Crime?

[jakee 1,254]

Drunk drivers who accidentally cause a fatal crash?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

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I would like to start an incentive program though.. For each Child molester an Inmate Kills, they get one year off thier sentance.

You'd reward violent behaviour with early release?

You might want to think that through a little more carefully!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?