I would like to tell you a bit more about God

[jakee 1,279]

Purpose? That'd be you making things up again.

I'm just wondering if you're in the thread because of an interest in the subject, or just to take digs at me. After all, you're the one who places a high priority on politeness, right?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[br0k3n 0]

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How is the Catholic Church responsible for those people

Its not, so why is it condemning these people by imposing its unfounded beliefs by not allowing the use of condoms as it claims this will promote promiscuity. Also by using that good religious method of ignoring evidence to fit its agenda by claiming that condoms do not protect against aids, even thought the WHO has proven to them that condoms are at least 90% effective… and that this claim is an outright lie…

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Royd 0]

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How is the Catholic Church responsible for those people

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Its not, so why is it condemning these people by imposing its unfounded beliefs by not allowing the use of condoms as it claims this will promote promiscuity. Also by using that good religious method of ignoring evidence to fit its agenda by claiming that condoms do not protect against aids, even thought the WHO has proven to them that condoms are at least 90% effective… and that this claim is an outright lie…

Let me ask you something. How many clubs, teams or secret societies let their members run around, willey nilley, disobeying the rules and regulations, regardless of how ridiculous or inane they may appear to someone outside of the organizaton, without some kind of reprimand?
If the Catholic Church suddenly decided to rewrite all of its rules to fit the flow of today's everchanging immoral society, it wouldn't be the Catholic Church anymore, now, would it?

[br0k3n 0]

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Let me ask you something. How many clubs, teams or secret societies let their members run around, willey nilley, disobeying the rules and regulations, regardless of how ridiculous or inane they may appear to someone outside of the organizaton, without some kind of reprimand?
If the Catholic Church suddenly decided to rewrite all of its rules to fit the flow of today's everchanging immoral society, it wouldn't be the Catholic Church anymore, now, would it?

Most of the people in Africa that are suffering are not members of the “Catholic church club” so that makes your first point moot.

Now let me ask you why the Catholic Church feels the need, or thinks it has the right to lie about the fact that condoms help prevent aids in an attempt to prevent there use, to help support the ancient beliefs about fidelity.

The Catholic Church is a dinosaur, and hopefully one day like the dinosaurs it will be extinct.

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Muenkel 0]

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Most of the people in Africa that are suffering are not members of the “Catholic church club” so that makes your first point moot.

Now let me ask you why the Catholic Church feels the need, or thinks it has the right to lie about the fact that condoms help prevent aids in an attempt to prevent there use, to help support the ancient beliefs about fidelity.

The Catholic Church is a dinosaur, and hopefully one day like the dinosaurs it will be extinct.

Once again a non-Catholic or recovered Catholic misrepresenting the true teachings of the Catholic faith.

The whole condom thing has never been about AIDS in Catholic teachings. It has to do with the condemnation of artificial birth control.

Regarding the Catholic Church's extinction, don't count on it. Remember, we're not the ones aborting our offspring.

_________________________________________
Chris

[br0k3n 0]

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The whole condom thing has never been about AIDS in Catholic teachings. It has to do with the condemnation of artificial birth control.

Well done, however the so called “condemnation” of artificial birth control is based on the caveman beliefs of the Catholic Church, and unfortunately innocent people are suffering as a result of these beliefs.

Also the Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.

So care to comment on this???

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[funkcanna 0]

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Hi DropDgorgeous, your display of grace under fire is commendable. .

What grace is that then? All she has done is post a handful of times and dodged a million and one questions. Very commendable.

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[Royd 0]

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Most of the people in Africa that are suffering are not members of the “Catholic church club” so that makes your first point moot.

So why do you God haters keep falsely implying that the Catholic Church is responsible for the AIDS epidemic in Africa, which also makes your argument moot?

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Now let me ask you why the Catholic Church feels the need, or thinks it has the right to lie about the fact that condoms help prevent aids in an attempt to prevent there use, to help support the ancient beliefs about fidelity.

I am an ex-Catholic because I chose not to abide by their rules, so I'm only taking the words of a bunch of religion haters that this is a fact. My personal life doesn't require the need of such regulation. If I got AIDS, who's fault would it be?

[JackC 0]

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So why do you God haters keep falsely implying that the Catholic Church is responsible for the AIDS epidemic in Africa, which also makes your argument moot?

Partially responsible. *Partially*.

If they were neutral on the condom issue, that would be one thing. But they're not. They're actively and knowingly disseminating false information about condoms regarding their effectivness against contracting HIV. That is what makes them *partially* responsible and in my view criminally culpible.

[Royd 0]

So why do you God haters keep falsely implying that the Catholic Church is responsible for the AIDS epidemic in Africa, which also makes your argument moot?

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Partially responsible. *Partially*.

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If they were neutral on the condom issue, that would be one thing. But they're not. They're actively and knowingly disseminating false information about condoms regarding their effectivness against contracting HIV. That is what makes them *partially* responsible and in my view criminally culpible.

The edicts of the Church are only given to and apply to those in the Church. One of the wonderful things about humans [some of us, anyway] is that we have the ability to resist our baser, carnal nature. We are meant to live life on a little higher plane than the animals. This is one of the concepts of most religions. If one claims to be a Catholic, and lives a life in accordance to the guidance of the Church, what is the possibility of that person ending up with AIDS?
If one of their members commits a robbery or a murder, is that crime also laid at the feet of the Church?
The exception is with the clergy.

You can't, on the one hand, claim that the people have the ability to chose a life that endangers them, and then claim that they are too stupid to weigh the consequences in the balance.

The information is out there. One only needs to access it.

[jakee 1,279]

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Once again a non-Catholic or recovered Catholic misrepresenting the true teachings of the Catholic faith.

Not in that post he didn't. The Catholic church really does lie about the effectiveness of condoms in preventing transmision of HIV. The Vatican really does promote 'scientific' findings on the effectiveness of condoms that directly contradict the unanimous opinion of the major world health organisations.

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The whole condom thing has never been about AIDS in Catholic teachings. It has to do with the condemnation of artificial birth control.

It's about AIDS now. What's more important, peoples lives or some idiotic ancient 'moral' command?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,279]

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The information is out there. One only needs to access it.

This is the attitude that really, really pisses me off. "It's ok to lie as long as someone is telling the truth"

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JackC 0]

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The edicts of the Church are only given to and apply to those in the Church.

...

The information is out there. One only needs to access it.

The fact remains that the catholic church is guilty of disseminating blatantly false information regarding the effectiveness of condoms as a barrier against HIV. It doesn't matter that only catholics are meant to obey the catholic church's edict on this, like it or not people do listen to (although they may not act on) things the catholic church put out as fact. The Vatican is guilty of knowingly promoting false information that may stop people using a form of contraceptive that could help slow the spread of HIV. They have therefore contributed to the death of an untold number of people and that is criminal in my view.

Wheather people are or are not capable of keeping it in their pants has precisely fuck all to do with it. This is not an issue with the catholic church being responsible (or not) for people shagging left right and centre, this is about the catholic church deliberately lying about the effectiveness of a method of preventing the transmission of HIV.

[Royd 0]

The information is out there. One only needs to access it.

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This is the attitude that really, really pisses me off. "It's ok to lie as long as someone is telling the truth"

Let's face it. The population of Africa which recognizes the Church as its final authority is small. Those who choose to disobey is even smaller, and those who contract AIDS is even smaller. You just hate Christianity. I don't see you slamming other religions for not being actively involved in the spreading of scientific or medical knowledge.

I'm sure there are more Muslims in Africa than any other religion. Are they stepping up to the plate and condemning such things as female curcumcision. Does that really, really piss you off, or do you blow that off as one of their religious traditions?

How about the fact that Muslim men pretty much get a pass on rape,[Hey, don't forget the rubber] but a woman can be stoned to death?

[jakee 1,279]

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Let's face it. The population of Africa which recognizes the Church as its final authority is small. Those who choose to disobey is even smaller, and those who contract AIDS is even smaller.

Another justification? "It's ok to lie as long as not everyone listens to you"

The Catholic church lies about the effectiveness of condoms to the most at risk people in the world. Why is that ok to you?

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I'm sure there are more Muslims in Africa than any other religion.

In Sub-Saharan Africa there are more Christians than Muslims.

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Does that piss you off, or do you blow that off as one of their religious traditions?

I think it's hideously barbaric. However, being that there are no adherents of those religions on this forum it's going to be difficult to have a discussion about it, no?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[NCclimber 0]

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I'm sure there are more Muslims in Africa than any other religion.

In Sub-Saharan Africa there are more Christians than Muslims.

And only 1/6th of of the African population is Catholic.

[jakee 1,279]

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I'm sure there are more Muslims in Africa than any other religion.

In Sub-Saharan Africa there are more Christians than Muslims.

And only 1/6th of of the population is Catholic.

"Another justification? "It's ok to lie as long as not everyone listens to you""

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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Let's face it. The population of Africa which recognizes the Church as its final authority is small. Those who choose to disobey is even smaller, and those who contract AIDS is even smaller.

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Another justification? "It's ok to lie as long as not everyone listens to you"

The Catholic church lies about the effectiveness of condoms to the most at risk people in the world. Why is that ok to you?

You are implying that these people are just too stupid to figure things out on their own. What did you call it? Casual racism?
After two or three generations of AIDS and tons of medical information about it, if one cannot look around, scratch his head and say,"Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't be doing that." then he gets what he damn well deserves.
That lesson applies to the whole world concerning any number of topics.

On the upside, the world population is being controlled, thus saving the Artic ice and the Polar Bears.

[jakee 1,279]

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You are implying that these people are just too stupid to figure things out on their own. What did you call it? Casual racism?
After two or three generations of AIDS and tons of medical information about it, if one cannot look around, scratch his head and say,"Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't be doing that." then he gets what he damn well deserves.

Oh where to begin here!

First off, you've reverted straight back to justification No1. "It's ok to lie as long as someone else tells the truth". Indefensible stance.

Second, where is your internal consistency? A few posts ago you thought Africans were illiterate people too stupid to figure out how to use a condom for anything other than "hauling river water" and now you expect them all to be able to competently evaluate differing scientific opinions? Do you even pay attention to what you type?

Third, there is a difference between poor education and lack of access to information and sheer stupidity. Many Africans in high risk AIDS areas are horrendously poor, and they can't just hop onto the WHO website like you or I can. Admitting this is not racism.

Fourth, people everywhere believe stupid things in relation to religion. In the USA, one of the richest, best educated societies in the world, anything up to half the population prefer to believe in a neolithic creation myth over one of the most well supported scientific theories of the modern day. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that many people exposed to both the Church's version of condom effectiveness and the WHO et al version of condom effectiveness will prefer to believe the former.

So I'll ask you again, why is it OK to you that the Catholic Church knowingly and actively lies about condom effectiveness to the most at risk groups of people in the world?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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So I'll ask you again, why is it OK to you that the Catholic Church knowingly and actively lies about condom effectiveness to the most at risk groups of people in the world?

Which group would that be? Catholics who choose to have illicit sex outside of the bonds of marriage?

[jakee 1,279]

You know damn well what I'm talking about so stop dodging the question.

Why is it OK to you that the Catholic Church lies about the effectiveness of potentially life saving devices? After all, they're breaking one of their very own commandments!

Why are you condoning lying?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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You know damn well what I'm talking about so stop dodging the question.

Why is it OK to you that the Catholic Church lies about the effectiveness of potentially life saving devices? After all, they're breaking one of their very own commandments!

Why are you condoning lying?

I don't condone lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, or sexual seduction or coercion by the clergy.

Based on the fact that you do not believe that man has the ability to forego sexual promiscuity, and that they only have the ability to obey those edicts that are easy or convienient, what makes you think that, if the Pope proclaimed today that all Catholics would have to wear condoms unless they were intentionally trying to conceive, all men would immediately obey? After all, isn't it human nature to disobey rules? Especially if they cause inconvenience or result in less sexual pleasure.

[jakee 1,279]

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what makes you think that, if the Pope proclaimed today that all Catholics would have to wear condoms unless they were intentionally trying to conceive, all men would immediately obey?

Oh sweet jesus, I have made it incredibly clear to you that I am not talking in absolute terms. It is not an either all or none proposition! Why are you unable to grasp that simple fact? Why in your world does the church either have control over everyone or influence over no-one? If the government lowered the speed limit by 5mph do you think everyone would obey it, or would no-one obey it? Do you get how stupid that sounds?

I have also never indicated that I think the Church should mandate condom use, where the fuck are you getting this stuff from?

It's these kind of dodges, diversions and strawmen that make me sure that you know you don't have a leg to stand on here.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Lindsey 0]

Here I come to learn a little bit more about God (as the thread title implies), and all I get is more and more confused. Makes me think it's kinda up in the air. I've gained little clarity today where this topic is concerned. :(

linz

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Derekbox 0]

Ill fill you in, Jesus was murdered thousands of years ago. The killing in his name has yet to cease to this day. But its ok, because the big guy in the sky has a plan or something.