trigger 0 #26 July 7, 2007 QuoteDoes that somehow guarantee that during an argument, the husband can't beat the wife to death before he gets there? So give the husband a gun and he can shoot the anyone who intervenes with his wife beating antics..smart. IMO making guns less accessable is a two way street,it makes it more difficult for a criminal to use a gun if he/she can't easily acquire one allowing the real men to protect themselves with their fists which imo is how it should be..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #27 July 7, 2007 Tell that to the old, the children, the sick, the paraplegic, or people who cant just defend themselves. You write about a dream world, would that be Oz?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #28 July 7, 2007 They can fit better locks,alarms etc.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #29 July 7, 2007 QuoteThey can fit better locks,alarms etc And that helps them when they have to go out in public, how?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #30 July 7, 2007 Why waste time going out at all, you see the idea brits are ok with and then you understand this logic."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #31 July 7, 2007 I don't give much credence to his thoughts - he's already posted several things that show me he has an issue with projection, so... *shrug*Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #32 July 7, 2007 Maybe we could give them free Tazers..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #33 July 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteDoes that somehow guarantee that during an argument, the husband can't beat the wife to death before he gets there? So give the husband a gun and he can shoot the anyone who intervenes with his wife beating antics..smart. Well, stop pretending that "police presence" is the panacea to violence. You simply cannot put a police officer between victim and attacker with anything remotely resembling adequacy or frequency. To suggest so is just dumb. QuoteIMO making guns less accessable is a two way street,it makes it more difficult for a criminal to use a gun if he/she can't easily acquire one allowing the real men to protect themselves with their fists which imo is how it should be. You obviously know little to nothing about self defense if you think it boils down to how "macho" you are in the means you use to defend yourself. It's about surviving, and protecting yourself from harm. Only a fool thinks he ought to "fight fair" when attacked by a criminal. Fisticuffs is how it ought to be, huh? Well, what about when there are multiple attackers? Is it your opinion that if we can't all train to the point where we are deadly Bruce-Lee-types who can take on five guys at a time, we should be shit-outta-luck for self defense? And if anyone actually is that deadly with just his fists that they're all he needs for defense, then he can probably kill people just as effectively as if a weaker guy had a gun, and then what did you solve?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #34 July 7, 2007 Mmm multiple attackers with guns,then you're pretty much bollocked wether you're armed or not..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #35 July 7, 2007 Quote Mmm multiple attackers with guns,then you're pretty much bollocked wether you're armed or not. I guess you're prepared to trump any scenario with one that even a gun wouldn't help in. It makes me wonder how you are able to discount the true-life accounts of people who actually have saved their lives or the lives of others using their civilian guns. But yeah, I wouldn't like my chances against multiple assailants armed with guns. But since punks and thugs will always get weapons, and MY not having guns would never guarantee that my attackers would not have them, I'll keep mine, thanks. Besides, is it your argument that when I face a group of armed thugs, I'm better off with NOTHING for a weapon than I am if I have a gun? I suppose I can always offer up to them everything I have (which they'd take anyway whether I offer it or not) and then beg them not to kill me. You know, the British way... Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #36 July 7, 2007 Hi, busy guy - 24 posts in one day: WOW How about few informations about yourself? Just such like: You're from which star, again? Which continent ...? S/D: Yes/No? Troll? Yes/No? Thx a lot in advance. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #37 July 7, 2007 I know you're right in countries where guns are easily available it might be prudent to have a gun and not need one than to need a gun and not have one,like the gun shop owner who sold the gun to the assilant in the latest school masacre in the US said "there were 32 people who could have done with guns and didn't have them". Fortunately i live in the uk and find it highly unlikely that i will become a victim of gun related crime,but if i visit America can i borrow one of yours..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #38 July 7, 2007 I'd never loan a gun to someone who is so obviously contemptuous of the notion of their utility. We know what did happen because a psycho had a gun and no good people did, at Virginia Tech. What might have happened if someone with a license to carry a gun had his gun (or her gun) on hand that day? Only 17 killed? Only 2 killed? Maybe none killed? Gun crime may not be at cataclysmic levels in the U.K., but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or that its victims might not do well to have guns of their own. And you don't need to be faced with an enemy who has a gun in order to be justified in using a gun of your own.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #39 July 7, 2007 >> highly unlikely to become a victim of gun crime Sure about that? Looks like it's still pretty prevalent, especially considering the bans... From the Home Office crime report: Quote3.1 FIREARM CRIMES IN 2004/05 Firearms (including air weapons) were used in 22,789 recorded crimes in England and Wales in 2004/05, a fall of five per cent or 1,305 crimes compared to 2003/04. Over half (52 per cent) of these offences involved air weapons. This is the first fall in firearm crimes since 1997. They do admit that changes in reporting may have skewed the numbers in preceding years, but still... >> can i borrow one of yours. With your projectionist fantasies about people running wild in the streets gunning down anyone in their way? Not bloody likely...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #40 July 7, 2007 But as you can see the UK home office includes the use of air guns and as far as i know there was only one fatality in the last year where the slug enterred the victims brain via the eyeball. It's a pity the home office dosn't just publish the actual crimes commited with firearms,as it stands an air gun has to exceed 12ft/lbs[rifle]and 6ft/lbs[pistol] before it is classed as a firearm. Also how many offences are committed using shotguns which are still legal provided you meet the licensing requirements. Of the 22,789 2003/04 figures you quote i wouldn't mind betting very few were committed using handguns. My stance remains,if you[society]makes it difficult to own a gun,gun fatalities will fall..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #41 July 7, 2007 >> if society makes it difficult to own a gun, gun fatalities will fall. Are those people who were stabbed (236) or kicked to death (124) any less dead because they weren't killed with a gun?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 639 #42 July 7, 2007 that mindset has obviously worked with drugs the world over. make them illegal and nobody will get drugs.same is true of weapons...and I prefer to have them to protect myself and my family against those that will always find a way to obtain weapons. I'm glad I have that right in this country. I would not agree with taking away my rights because others act irresponsibly. That's like making it illegal for me to drive on a Saturday night because more DUI's happen on that night. anybody seen the numbers of people killed by cars? man those things are deadly...I say we ban them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #43 July 7, 2007 No you're right wether you are stabbed or kicked to death you're still dead 236+124=250 thats 550 less dead people than were killed accidently in the US due to firearms alone. In a country of almost 60,000,000 people thats less than0.0001% of the uk population,so giving us all guns do you think we would[uk] be better off violence wise..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #44 July 7, 2007 QuoteMy stance remains,if you[society]makes it difficult to own a gun,gun fatalities will fall. But wait a moment, the U.K. has made it more difficult to own a gun, even to the point that they confiscated what was privately owned, and gun fatalities are higher than they used to be in the U.K. Haven't you folks always beamed about how rare they used to be? Explain why british cops, who used to be almost universally unarmed, now have to maintain armed units.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #45 July 7, 2007 Sadly there will always be the 'black market'for drugs/guns but making either more freely available imo will only increase the casualty rate especially where guns are concerned..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #46 July 7, 2007 Quote Quote Does that somehow guarantee that during an argument, the husband can't beat the wife to death before he gets there? So give the husband a gun and he can shoot the anyone who intervenes with his wife beating antics..smart. IMO making guns less accessable is a two way street,it makes it more difficult for a criminal to use a gun if he/she can't easily acquire one allowing the real men to protect themselves with their fists which imo is how it should be. It is a dam good thing in the US your opinion doesn't count"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #47 July 7, 2007 You're right about gun falalities there definately on the the rise within the criminal faternity drug dealers will always be willing to kill their rivals and imo the lack of border control within the eu has made it easier for criminals to smuggle guns in to the uk from the continent. However i dont see a rise in gun related fatalities within the general law abiding civil population and cannot see a reason to arm myself..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #48 July 7, 2007 Like you say it's just an opinion but what makes you feel you have a need to arm yourself is your neighborhood a warzone. Also if i was a criminal in the US given the right to defend philospthopy i'd remove the threat of being killed by shooting you first and then robbing you blind. Point is as i see it two way street the criminals feel they must arm themselfs just as much as you do and that can't be good..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #49 July 7, 2007 QuoteIn a country of almost 60,000,000 people thats less than0.0001% of the uk population,so giving us all guns do you think we would[uk] be better off violence wise. You want stats? Chew on this one: An estimated 80,000,000 gun owners possess 250,000,000 guns (old estimates) in the U.S. All gun deaths combined (accident, suicide, homicide both justifiable and criminal) each year hovers around 30,000. Assume that every single gun death is caused by a separate gun, and divide it out. Only .00012 of the guns in this country (12 thousandths of one percent) is ever used in a death, even justifiable deaths. In ten years, only slightly over 1 tenth of one percent of our guns would be used to kill. Amazing. I wonder how the stats for cars stack up. People like to pretend that if guns are rounded up and destroyed, they'll never come back. That's ridiculous. Take a look at the firearms bazaars in backward-assed places like Afghanistan, where they make AK-47 knockoffs that work just fine, as well as pistols. Granted I can't do it, but there are plenty of folks around who have the know-how to make garage guns to supply a black market. Who's the first to line up for such things on a black market? The dangerous criminal types.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #50 July 7, 2007 QuoteSadly there will always be the 'black market'for drugs/guns but making either more freely available imo will only increase the casualty rate especially where guns are concerned. That's very humorous. In the U.S., every single year sees MILLIONS more guns sold, with very little attrition of the extant ones. And yet, despite your claim, we've had plenty of years with decreases in gun violence casualties. And then the U.K. makes guns all but disappear, and they have more gun violence than before. Your claims evaporate.Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
