shropshire 0 #1 June 7, 2007 So, you dont believe in evolution and we dont believe in creation; what actually happened? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #2 June 7, 2007 we don't know where he came from, but he came out of an An-2 scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #3 June 7, 2007 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #4 June 7, 2007 "Who made God?" QuoteTo one who examines the evidence, there can be no doubt that God exists. Every building has a builder. Everything made has a maker. The fact of the existence of the Creator is axiomatic. That's why the Bible says, "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1). The professing atheist denies the common sense given to him by God, and defends his belief by thinking that the question” Who made God?" can't be answered. This, he thinks, gives him license to deny the existence of God. The question of who made God can be answered by simply looking at space and asking, "Does space have an end?" Obviously, it doesn't. If there is a brick wall with "The End" written on it, the question arises, "What is behind the brick wall?" Strain the mind though it may, we have to believe (have faith) that space has no beginning and no end. The same applies with God. He has no beginning and no end. He is eternal. The Bible also informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. It even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. That will be called "eternity." God Himself dwells outside of the dimension He created (2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2). He dwells in eternity and is not subject to time. God spoke history before it came into being. He can move through time as a man flips through a history book. Because we live in the dimension of time, logic and reason demand that everything must have a beginning and an end. We can understand the concept of God's eternal nature the same way we understand the concept of space having no beginning and end - by faith. We simply have to believe they are so, even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum. --The Evidence Bible compiled by Ray Comfort ***Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. You turn man to destruction; and say, Return, you children of men. For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Psalm 90:2-4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #5 June 7, 2007 QuoteTo one who examines the evidence, there can be no doubt that God exists. What evidence? QuoteThe fact of the existence of the Creator is axiomatic. How can it be self evident when there is no substantial proof of such. Because there is a tree? Because a child is born? because we exist? Because the bible says so? These types of things are no more proof that a god exist than a history book telling us that dinosaurs exist. We know that dinosaurs exist because there is physical proof. Solely saying that something exist is not proof. QuoteThe question of who made God can be answered by simply looking at space and asking, "Does space have an end?" That is extremely laughable. This Ray Comfort guy should stay away from LSD. Obvious he is riding the astral plane. QuoteThe Bible also informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. Rubbish! Science has taught us of space and time. The church has long denied these types of findings. Only after they could no longer deny the proof did the church spin it to try and make it their own. QuoteIt even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. Time will always exist. QuoteWe can understand the concept of God's eternal nature the same way we understand the concept of space having no beginning and end - by faith. Our understanding of space is not by faith but, by cold hard proof derived from real research. Saying that ones faith is proof that god exist is no more proof than someone saying that they have faith that unicorns exist therefore they exist. QuoteWe simply have to believe they are so, even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum. Does this logic apply to unicorns, also? Insufficient cerebrum? We are far from insufficient as we are constantly evolving. Our knowledge of life has leaped over the highest hurdles. We can create life in a test tube. We can harvest body parts from a pig! We can clone animals. We have mapped the human genome. We can send probes to the far bounderies of our galaxy. We have seen the birth and the death of a star. We have witnessed new galaxies forming. It is only a short matter of time when we leap far past these accomplishments. Our minds have no bounderies. We are who we are. We are god."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #6 June 7, 2007 Looks like you have some competition: http://thepaincomics.com/weekly041229a.htm Is it really any different than what you claim? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #7 June 7, 2007 it's absurd to argue about the particular NATURE of God with someone who doesn't even believe in God in the first place. If God doesn't exist, then the particular qualities of God don't matter. If God does exist, then God DOES exist outside of time. Just because we humans are temporal creatures does not mean God also is. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #8 June 7, 2007 ah ha. But to the question of where the all knowing, all creating god came from? An answer that says, "just because" sounds even more foolish to me. More specifically, it sounds like a parent who doesn't know the answer and, regardless, wants to be right. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #9 June 7, 2007 The history of conflict between science and god, is not so much a conflict between science and god, as it is between science and religion. Religion is an expression of ones beliefs, that there is an almighty who controls the world and controls the daily affaires of the world. The problem comes when your religion is doctrine that makes a statement of the physical world; and then as a scientist you investigate the physical world and there is a difference ? Low and behold you have conflict. You cannot be a scientist and gain you insight into the world by reading religious scripture. It’s been tried and it fails every single time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #10 June 7, 2007 QuoteIf God does exist, then God DOES exist outside of time. Why? QuoteJust because we humans are temporal creatures does not mean God also is. But it doenst meant god exists outise of time. It means he may exist outside of time.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #11 June 7, 2007 Quoteah ha. But to the question of where the all knowing, all creating god came from? An answer that says, "just because" sounds even more foolish to me. More specifically, it sounds like a parent who doesn't know the answer and, regardless, wants to be right. .jim Is the origin of God any less defensible that the origin of the Universe or the Big Bang? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 June 7, 2007 <> That's a good question and I for one think that it is less defensible (bearing in mind that I'm no Physicist or Theologian - can't even spell them!). The Big Bang postulates a Chemical/nuclear event. Where as God(s) imply an inteligence that no one appears to be able to explain how or from where it came into existance.... It Just is, is not good enough. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #13 June 7, 2007 Where Did God Come from??? Man made God..... as Homo Erectus transitioned into Homo Sapiens , his brain complexity grew...( perhaps from abundant nutritional benefits of seafood, as mankind ventured from the grassland plains,, and towards, rivers and oceans). The vegatative diet of early man only took him so far... meat was a good protein supplement but seafood was richer... so anyway.. as man's brain grows and thought becomes more complex, and questions are being asked.....Often there were NO answers... especially if the true explantation for something was scientific... So a "God" figure... very conveniently answered "the unanswerable"..... Why did the wind blow? Where do the herds come from" What explains Lightening and Thunder...? How does reproduction happen... reproduction of the animals around them, of the trees and grasses, and plant life, of the very concept of DAY....... which always ends with the disappearance of the sun... but then, the Sun RE-appears...!!!!...... Surely early man. did not know Solar System Concepts, and DNA .. RNA comprehension was still a million years in their future. So man creates a Deity a Spirit, and in some cases many Gods' within their world. to answer the unanswerable.... Then As we came into the recent 10,000 years and writing and recording of things began, the concepts and foundations of God...were transcribed as FACT and of common acceptance....and so. we simply have been raised all our lives with the concept of God...and the sense that God is all around Us... and that works for me....Regardless of Who created Who.....jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #14 June 7, 2007 <> Works for me too and remember .. Man is man-made (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #15 June 7, 2007 Quote ah ha. But to the question of where the all knowing, all creating god came from? An answer that says, "just because" sounds even more foolish to me.. .jim True, but we're ALL left to that to some extent anyway. If you, as I do, accept the Big Bang theory, then what came before that which caused it? If time = progressive changes in the states of matter and energy, then how could there be time before matter and energy existed? so what are we left with? The Big Bang happened JUST BECAUSE.same deal, different belief system. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #16 June 7, 2007 Hey, where is hairyjuan when we need him??? HE'LL straighten this whole thing out! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #17 June 7, 2007 Quote If you, as I do, accept the Big Bang theory, then what came before that which caused it? I've posted this before, but here it is again... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/135713/family_guy_the_big_bang/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #18 June 7, 2007 QuoteTo one who examines the evidence, there can be no doubt that God exists. Just as a note, this is not a very engaging way to begin a discussion. QuoteEvery building has a builder. Everything made has a maker... ...strain the mind though it may, we have to believe (have faith) that space has no beginning and no end. The same applies with God. He has no beginning and no end. He is eternal. It is a strain to believe that an eternal God created an endless expanse and some stuff to put in it. Similarly, it is a strain to believe that an endless expanse and the stuff in it is itself simply eternal. Either defeats the "everything made has a maker" statement, and one adds an additional complicating step to the process of doing so. I understand this author doesn't speak for everyone, but please understand, you can't have your cake and eat it to. Please do not try to use a logical construct to convince me that an eternal being outside the reigns of time and logic exists. It's just silly. I have no discomfort with regards to the concept of God nor with my stance on whether such an entity exists, and it is for that reason I don't feel the need to write books that grasp at straws trying to convince others that what I believe is the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #19 June 7, 2007 quite a bit, I'd say. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeadCone 0 #20 June 7, 2007 QuoteIs the origin of God any less defensible that the origin of the Universe or the Big Bang? This is a point that's a problem for both theists and atheists. Is it or is it not possible for something to either have always existed or come into existence out of nothing? --Head-- Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety! http://www.citizensunitednegatingtechnology.org/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #21 June 7, 2007 QuoteIs the origin of God any less defensible that the origin of the Universe or the Big Bang? Although we can wind the clock back (so to speak) and take a glimpse at the origin of the universe, or close to it, we can never look beyond. In fact, what happened before the big bang is itself a meaningless question. The universe which is all that there is: space, matter, energy, even time itself , all the evidence for everything we can ever know started with the big bang. Now we have very good reason to suppose the universe started with a bang. If we look at the universe, it's expanding roughly uniformly in every direction. If you go backwards in time, the universe must have been smaller than it is now. Even the energy signature of the big bang, the cosmic microwave background, is observable with a suitable radio telescope. Each and every little piece of evidence, from the constant speed of light to the interaction of sub atomic particles has been looked at and theories have been devised to try and bring these observations together. All these theories have to be consistent with each other and themselves but more importantly, they have to be consistent with observation. It is precisely because we have measured all the little things so carefully, that we can make predictions about the bigger things and even measure them too. So we have a pretty good handle on the universe and it's origin. Not perfect but pretty good. Contrast that with the origin of God. We know absolutely nothing about that, lots of contrasting theories but absolutely no evidence. Hell, we can't pin down whether he even exists. So I think on balance, the origin of the universe is fairly defensible, and we can definately defend its existence. With God, we can't succesfully defend either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #22 June 7, 2007 Quote quite a bit, I'd say. .jim how so? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #23 June 7, 2007 Quote So we have a pretty good handle on the universe and it's origin. Not perfect but pretty good. At least for now. I find it interesting that so many indisputably accept a theory about how things played out over the last 13.7 BILLION YEAR, based on such limited information. And the question remains - How did it originate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #24 June 7, 2007 Quote[And the question remains - How did it originate? Thank you for not reading my post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #25 June 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteAnd the question remains - How did it originate? Thank you for not reading my post. I did. Thank you for not answering my question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
