DSE 3 #326 June 15, 2007 Spirituality is different than a belief in God. yes, I ascribe to most of the beliefs of my parents and their parents etc. These beliefs are significantly different than the bullshit presented by people like Carlos Castenada, pop-religion frufru from Sedona, AZ, and the like. Old westerns generally present the post-white contact information that was essentially forced after the Treaty of 1868. That said, I'm not evangelizing nor asking anyone to believe what I believe, nor do I condescend to suggest that if you don't believe as I do, you're not a good person or going to hell. Therefore, my personal beliefs will likely never find their way to this community. Come see me if you want to experience it first hand. Additionally, it should be mentioned that the spiritual tenets of various nations in North America are as greatly varied as those of all other world religions. But you'd never know that by reading the books predominantly written by non-native, white christians about our cultures. Over 2000 languages spread over a large continent, with different game, hunting, farming, trading, and social strata, but most books lump all into one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #327 June 15, 2007 Quote Your will is not strong enough to keep you from sinning and is certainly not strong enough to save you. Excatly opposite. Your will not to sin anymore is in its strongest point when you physically cannot sin anymore.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #328 June 15, 2007 Come on you slackers, 327 posts and the question still hasn't been answered. I'd have expected you to solve this one by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #329 June 15, 2007 QuoteSo, you dont believe in evolution and we dont believe in creation; what actually happened? Are you asking about creation vs. evolution, or where did God come from ? I believe that evolution is the factual scientific explanation of how life came about and changed. If you believe in God, then you can believe in creation AND accept evolution as our blueprint of how He did it. Sort of like accepting a composer's score for a beautiful work of music. If you don't believe in God, then you believe what happened is what happened all by itself. It simply depends on what you do or don't believe. As to where God came from, it again comes down to what you do or don't believe yourself. If you believe, then God is unknowable and has always been there. He didn't "come from" anywhere. If you don't believe, then you probaly think that God is an invention of the human psyche to help us try and understand the unknowable. There, that was easy.... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #330 June 15, 2007 QuoteSpirituality is different than a belief in God.Athiests would deny the existance of both, simply because they can't figure it out, or they can't abide submission to something that is more powerful than them. QuoteAdditionally, it should be mentioned that the spiritual tenets of various nations in North America are as greatly varied as those of all other world religions.But they did recognize the concept that man in himself is not the end all/be all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #331 June 16, 2007 >Athiests would deny the existance of both, simply because they can't > figure it out, or they can't abide submission to something that is more >powerful than them. Atheists might also claim that the world is not divided into things you have to submit to or dominate. They're not far wrong. >But they did recognize the concept that man in himself is not the end all/be all. Careful, there. You're getting mighty close to some non-christian concepts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #332 July 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteWell heck, while you're on here, would you like to admit that AiG are either incompetent or lying to you? I have to admit. This confused me and I have been looking for answers. I have even e-mailed AiG but have not heard back from them yet. They have answered me in the past, though, so I expect a response. Anyway, here is the passage in question: QuoteOne commonly raised problem is ‘How could Noah fit all those huge dinosaurs on the Ark?’ First, of the 668 supposed dinosaur genera, only 106 weighed more than ten tons when fully grown. Second, the Bible does not say that the animals had to be fully-grown. The largest animals were probably represented by ‘teenage’ or even younger specimens. It may seem surprising, but the median size of all animals on the Ark would most likely have been that of a small rat, according to Woodmorappe’s up-to-date tabulations, while only about 11 percent would have been much larger than a sheep. At first, I was looking at it from the perspective of your objection. I was trying to figure out why in the world he would use the median size to calculate space requirement of "all" the animals on the Ark. The mean would in fact be the appropriate measurement looking at the problem overall. However, in the context of the passage, is he not talking about the space requirement of any "one" animal? I admit I could be very wrong and that's why I have asked the source. I don't think anyone at AiG is "lying" to anyone, however. Just for thoroughness, I am posting the response I got back from Bradley Jones at AiG concerning the question of why Dr. Woodmorappe used the median instead of the mean in some of his calculations regarding the space requirements on the Ark. Bradley contacted Dr. Woodmorappe and asked for clarification. I guess most of us should actually read his book instead of jumping to conclusions. Here’s Woodmorappe’s response: Quote“My reason for using the geometric mean for the larger animals is the fact that there are more smaller than larger animals in each respective large-bodied category. This follows from the fact animals follow a log-normal distribution of genera relative to body-mass categories (Maurer et. all. 1992), with the larger animals being part of the tail end of this distribution.” --Dr. John Woodmorappe This is also quoted from his book, Noah's Ark, a Feasibility Study: Quote "I have based all the ensuing calculations on the Ark logistics by using the arithmetic mean of each respective small body-mass category (e.g. assuming in calculations that all the animals in the 1-10 gram category weigh 5 grams, etc.). For animals larger than 100 kg, I used the geometric mean of each category (e.g. letting every animal in the 100-1000 kg category weigh up to 316 kg for purposes of calculations). My reason for using the geometric mean for the larger animals is the fact that there are more smaller than larger animals in each respective large-bodied category. This follows from the fact [that] animals follow a log-normal distribution of genera relative to body-mass categories (Maurer et al. 1992), with the larger animals being part of the tail end of this distribution.” --Dr. John Woodmorappe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #333 July 4, 2007 Quote Were did God come from? A Cracker Jack box. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #334 July 4, 2007 Quote Quote Were did God come from? A Cracker Jack box. Verne, we got us a regular Zen Master here. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #335 July 4, 2007 QuoteI believe that evolution is the factual scientific explanation of how life came about and changed. If you believe in God, then you can believe in creation AND accept evolution as our blueprint of how He did it. Sort of like accepting a composer's score for a beautiful work of music. If you don't believe in God, then you believe what happened is what happened all by itself. It simply depends on what you do or don't believe. The lecture series "Origin of Species, Part 1, 2, 3, & 4" presented by Dr. Terry Mortenson and located here is very interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #336 July 5, 2007 God had no begining. He always was..... Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #337 July 5, 2007 QuoteGod had no begining. He always was..... I know. Did you mean to reply to me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #338 July 5, 2007 I was replying in general but went off your thread. I figured I would end this debate by answering the question properly. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #339 July 5, 2007 Quote I was replying in general but went off your thread. I figured I would end this debate by answering the question properly. Cool. Quote The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." Psalm 14:1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #340 July 5, 2007 Quote answering the question properly. Good one Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #341 July 5, 2007 QuoteGod had no begining. He always was..... So then it is fair to say that the universe had no begining and "always was"...----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #342 July 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteGod had no begining. He always was..... So then it is fair to say that the universe had no begining and "always was"... Why is that fair? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #343 July 5, 2007 He came from England.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #344 July 5, 2007 our universe is only a molecule under the thumbnail of a giant.. and god is dead, WE killed him!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
