pajarito 0 #26 May 18, 2007 QuoteWhat does it say about your intellectual honesty that this is the only one of Jakee's questions you respond to? Intellectual boredom, really. He didn't present anything new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #27 May 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat does it say about your intellectual honesty that this is the only one of Jakee's questions you respond to? Intellectual boredom, really. He didn't present anything new. Oh, my apologies. I don't have a big background in Ark Theory so I didn't know it's been addressed many times. Come to think of it though, that makes sense. Can you direct me to an authoritative source that answers these logistical questions about the ark from your perspective? And please not the answersingenesis.org page as that's what generated the questions in the first place. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #28 May 18, 2007 QuoteI don't have a big background in Ark Theory. Me either. QuoteAnd please not the answersingenesis.org page as that's what generated the questions in the first place. That's the one I cited. It's a good one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #29 May 18, 2007 None of those questions are important, really. Important questions deal with what’s going to happen to you when you die and have to face judgment. I’m a blind man casually walking toward the edge of a cliff. You notice this and try to warn me. I, on the other hand, am not interested in what you have to say about that. I’m busy pondering how God, the Creator of the Universe, could have also saved the animals on an Ark. Unless you can answer that, I won’t listen to you and keep walking toward my death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #30 May 18, 2007 QuoteNone of those questions are important, really. Important questions deal with what’s going to happen to you when you die and have to face judgment. Actually, they're quite important. The primary reason I have no interest in your conclusions about what happens to me after death is that your premises strike me as highly unbelievable. If you want me (or others) to listen the things you feel are important, you're going to have to fix up your credibility. It's in serious disarray. I offer you the chance to start with this big boat story. It's got many really serious inconsistencies. Tell me how to reconcile what looks like a hokey fairy tale with your claims that you've got important information about reality. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #31 May 18, 2007 >I’m a blind man casually walking toward the edge of a cliff. You notice this and try to warn me. Why? In your example, you're as blind as me. You've never seen the cliff, never felt the cliff, never gone over the cliff. Lots of people have disappeared from your life, but you don't know where they went. But one day someone comes along and says "thataway is the cliff! All who go that way fall to their gruesome deaths!" A few weeks later someone else comes along and says "no, the cliff lies north!" Then a third person comes along and says "there is no cliff." When I come walking along, you have two choices: "Hey, don't go that way, I believe there's a cliff there! Go north instead." or "This is where I've walked and I've been OK. Do as you see fit." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #32 May 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat does it say about your intellectual honesty that this is the only one of Jakee's questions you respond to? Intellectual boredom, really. He didn't present anything new. Yes, they are all old questions. The fact that none of them have ever been answered is rather telling don't you think?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #33 May 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteAnd please not the answersingenesis.org page as that's what generated the questions in the first place. That's the one I cited. It's a good one. One of the questions I asked directly references a flaw in the reasoning of that page. Mr Woodmorrappe uses the median size of Ark animals to prove that all the animals could fit into the ark. Quotations here. QuoteIt may seem surprising, but the median size of all animals on the Ark would most likely have been that of a small rat..... If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimeters For this application of averages the median size is grossly misleading. The proper average to use is the mean size of the animals, which would be orders of magnitude larger. Not only does this mistake completely invalidate Woodmorrappe's entire study it also calls into question rips into fucking shreds any vestige of credibility the man possessed. This is such a basic mistake that it would be literally impossible for any scientist to make it, or for peer review and proof reading to miss it, without deliberate and malicious intent to deceive. Your entire Ark article is based on a lie. Not just a mistake, a deliberate lie intended to sound impressive and to deceive the ignorant and gullible. And baby, you have fallen for it hook line and sinker. So about my questions.....Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #34 May 18, 2007 QuoteI’m a blind man casually walking toward the edge of a cliff. You notice this and try to warn me. I, on the other hand, am not interested in what you have to say about that. I’m busy pondering how God, the Creator of the Universe, could have also saved the animals on an Ark. No dude, I'm wondering if a book that claims to be divinely inspired truth yet includes such a fucking stupid story as the Ark can be trusted to be accurate about anything else at all.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zagijimzoo 0 #35 May 18, 2007 http://duggmirror.com/general_sciences/Science_Vs_Faith_A_simple_picture_says_it_all/sciencevsfaith.png Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #36 May 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat does it say about your intellectual honesty that this is the only one of Jakee's questions you respond to? Intellectual boredom, really. He didn't present anything new. Can or can you not answer Jakee's questions.... yes or no... I guess you can’t answer them, so perhaps answer me these 2 simple questions.. 1 Where did the water come from?? FYI. We would have had so much water come down in forty days in order to raise sea level almost two miles... that we would have had 138 inches of rain water, that’s 11.5 feet coming down per hour. This would have scoured off the surface of all the continents. All the sedimentary rocks would have been laid down in the ocean basins in one great, jumbled mass. That is not what we find today… 2 Did Noah take fishes and corals in the ark!??----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #37 May 21, 2007 QuoteSomething came from nothing, exploded, and became an organized everything. ................Absurd? Uh huh... That's really funny! So you do not believe that this "organized everything" came from nothing, but instead you believe that the Creator of that "organized everything" itself came from nothing? That's really absurd.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #38 May 21, 2007 Quote Important questions deal with what’s going to happen to you when you die and have to face judgment. That's not even important question, as I already have an answer. You give me one hundred bucks before you die - you go to Heaven. You do not - you go to Hell. Simple, heh? If you don't believe me - I talk to God every day, and He confirmed this is true. Still do not believe? I have a book, and it's written in that book. I admit, I wrote that book itself, but it was inspired by God. Why I think so? Because the Book says it was inspired by God, so it must be true. Still do not believe? Wait until you die, you'll regret then.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #39 May 21, 2007 Quote Something came from nothing, exploded, and became an organized everything. ................Absurd? Uh huh... Quote That's really funny! So you do not believe that this "organized everything" came from nothing, but instead you believe that the Creator of that "organized everything" itself came from nothing? Paj please help..... That's really absurd. Ah I think you have it wrong, the “creator” has always existed…. Oh!! Actually hang on, if that is the case then maybe the universe has always existed, and that we didn’t come from nothing… OH now im really confused----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #40 May 21, 2007 y'know...of all the bullshit in the bible, this is one story I actually could believe. Suppose it's a local story that took on international flair...maybe Noah just knew his immediate region, so the only animals on the ark were cows, horses, pigs, chickens, etc. It's modern day storytellers that added elephants, giraffes, and whatever else. If you lived in New Orleans and had no awareness of the outside world, wouldn't Katrina have qualified as a similar cataclysmic event that might grow in stature in coming generations? Just look at Elvis...the modern day Jesus. Fantasy turned to reality in the minds of a few fanatics. On the flip side, if you accept 100% of the earth was covered in water after a 40 day rain... rent "Waterworld" with Kevin Costner. It was inspired by the story of Noah, and an equally riveting fantasy/surrealism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #41 May 21, 2007 Quote y'know...of all the bullshit in the bible, this is one story I actually could believe. Suppose it's a local story that took on international flair...maybe Noah just knew his immediate region, so the only animals on the ark were cows, horses, pigs, chickens, etc. It's modern day storytellers that added elephants, giraffes, and whatever else. It's well known that in prehistoric times, 4 - 5,000BC there were huge flood events in the mediterrenean basin and the near/ middle east. It is quite likely for the ancestral memory of these floods to have become an oral tradition of a world consuming flood. But that is as far as it goes. Any of the details of the biblical account are obviously a pure fiction, invented over the course of countless generations of re-telling.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #42 May 21, 2007 >this is one story I actually could believe. Indeed; it probably did happen! There are several ancient "flood" stories that have very similar elements - a family saved on a boat/raft along with a few farm animals/a lot of animals. A storm and a flood that swallows everything the family can see. In 5600BC, the Black Sea was a brackish-water lake, fed by streams. Water evaporated faster than it was replaced, so the water level kept dropping - but was slow enough that people lived by its shores. This body of water was blocked from the Mediterranean by a low, rocky sill near what is today the Bosporus Straits. One day, likely during a storm, the sea breached the sill and started pouring into the Black Sea. It would have been an incredible flood, with cubic miles of seawater pouring through the new gap. 60,000 square miles of land were flooded. A farmer who had lived by the former lake, who escaped on a raft, would have seen his farm, his town, everything he knew, flooded by the sea. And since it was likely caused by a violent storm, it would seem like a storm came up and swallowed everything. Indeed, depending on winds etc, he could easily have seen everything to the horizons disappear under the rising seas. Eventually, of course, the storm ended, and a falling tide would have deposited him on one of the new shores. From an event like this, it's probable that the Sumerian, Egyptian and Christian deluge stories evolved over time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #43 May 21, 2007 Quote >this is one story I actually could believe. Indeed; it probably did happen! There are several ancient "flood" stories that have very similar elements - a family saved on a boat/raft along with a few farm animals/a lot of animals. A storm and a flood that swallows everything the family can see. In 5600BC, the Black Sea was a brackish-water lake, fed by streams. Water evaporated faster than it was replaced, so the water level kept dropping - but was slow enough that people lived by its shores. This body of water was blocked from the Mediterranean by a low, rocky sill near what is today the Bosporus Straits. One day, likely during a storm, the sea breached the sill and started pouring into the Black Sea. It would have been an incredible flood, with cubic miles of seawater pouring through the new gap. 60,000 square miles of land were flooded. A farmer who had lived by the former lake, who escaped on a raft, would have seen his farm, his town, everything he knew, flooded by the sea. And since it was likely caused by a violent storm, it would seem like a storm came up and swallowed everything. Indeed, depending on winds etc, he could easily have seen everything to the horizons disappear under the rising seas. Eventually, of course, the storm ended, and a falling tide would have deposited him on one of the new shores. From an event like this, it's probable that the Sumerian, Egyptian and Christian deluge stories evolved over time. Probably so. As with Native American stories; the stories of Untigilla, etc. They're probably more bible-borne than oral history, but regardless of the source, they exist. We heard them as kids; I'm familiar now with at least 3 flooding stories in indigenous culture. But...that still doesn't quite explain how some folks in the current world believe that all of the earth was covered with water and Noah had rhinos, elephants, giraffes, etc on his ark. Can't forget that son of Ham either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 May 21, 2007 Quote>Indeed, depending on winds etc, he could easily have seen everything to the horizons disappear under the rising seas. Much like to the ramapithicines living in the med basin when the Atlantic finally cracked the gibralter bridge (due the actions of a powerful, but deeply disturbed and twisted, psycho-creative gifted young woman named Felice). It's typical of those Med Basinites to believe the world was ending just because of a little water. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #45 May 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat does it say about your intellectual honesty that this is the only one of Jakee's questions you respond to? Intellectual boredom, really. He didn't present anything new. Can or can you not answer Jakee's questions.... yes or no... I guess you can’t answer them, so perhaps answer me these 2 simple questions.. 1 Where did the water come from?? FYI. We would have had so much water come down in forty days in order to raise sea level almost two miles... that we would have had 138 inches of rain water, that’s 11.5 feet coming down per hour. This would have scoured off the surface of all the continents. All the sedimentary rocks would have been laid down in the ocean basins in one great, jumbled mass. That is not what we find today… 2 Did Noah take fishes and corals in the ark!?? HELLOOOoooo Paj old boy, are you going to have a crack at answering any of these or Jakee's questions, or are you avoiding them because they dubunk your belief in the story of Noah???----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #46 May 22, 2007 Quote Quote God gonna bring back a pair of all the extinct animals for them? Did they have dinosaurs on that ride? How did the animals fit on Noah’s Ark? Are there people that actually believe that stuff? ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skysaintj 0 #47 May 22, 2007 Practically Perfect ! If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #48 May 22, 2007 Quote Practically Perfect ! Perhaps you missed my post? Pajarito's link is based on a demonstrable lie. Why would the supporters of the flood be reduced to lying about it if they thought they had any kind of actual case?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #49 May 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat does it say about your intellectual honesty that this is the only one of Jakee's questions you respond to? Intellectual boredom, really. He didn't present anything new. Can or can you not answer Jakee's questions.... yes or no... I guess you can’t answer them, so perhaps answer me these 2 simple questions.. 1 Where did the water come from?? FYI. We would have had so much water come down in forty days in order to raise sea level almost two miles... that we would have had 138 inches of rain water, that’s 11.5 feet coming down per hour. This would have scoured off the surface of all the continents. All the sedimentary rocks would have been laid down in the ocean basins in one great, jumbled mass. That is not what we find today… 2 Did Noah take fishes and corals in the ark!?? HELLOOOoooo Paj old boy, are you going to have a crack at answering any of these or Jakee's questions, or are you avoiding them because they dubunk your belief in the story of Noah??? Actually Paj, I have one more question ermm what does Genesis 8:20 say????----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #50 May 22, 2007 Noah's ark was clearly an egg and sperm bank... come on people think outside the box. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
