What a free country we live in

[billvon 2,434]

You know, there are a few serious problems in the US right now, cases where people's rights are being pretty egregiously violated. This isn't one of them. It's a case of the cops doing their jobs. The cops kept the road open and the protesters accomplished their goals, so I can't get too worked up about it.

[willard 0]

Were you there? Neither was I. But I did have a teacher in high school who was. He was sitting on the grass that day watching the demonstrations. He went back to his dorm when the students started throwing rocks, bricks, and other stuff at the guardsmen. He said when he saw that he knew it was going to get ugly. The protesters were not exactly innocent and peacefull that day. Sorry if I don't shed any tears. There are two sides to the Kent State events. Nothing has been settled to anyones satisfaction since that day. If the ones who actually were there can't agree on what happened, who are we to judge the events that took place ?

Go to Cuba and try to march with a sign condemning Castro. Try to lead a Democracy demonstration in China. Nobody knows for sure how many died the last time that was tried. Estimates range from a few hundred to tens of thousands.
Here in the U.S. you can plant your butt across from the White House and carry a sign all day every day if you want. You can get a permit to hold a rally at the Lincoln Memorial and give a speech calling him a communist, nazi, bigot, or whatever you want.

Do you really have it so freakin' bad here? Give me a break.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I guess the right to drive trumps the First Amendment every time.

Few people *drive* on market. But half of the bus lines in downtown pass through Market and Montgomery: 38/38L, 31, 5, 21, 70, 6, plus whatever the name of the surface street car for Market. Of those, half are electric, so detouring is not an option. They can only go where the lines go.

When you're protesting a 'war about oil,' it's pretty fucking ridiculous to knock out mass transit. In '91 some yahoos chained themselves to a BART train.

San Francisco is already a case of preaching to the choir on war bad, m'kay. No need to inconvenience the masses to get attention.

[jakee 1,259]

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Go to Cuba and try to march with a sign condemning Castro. Try to lead a Democracy demonstration in China.

Great, so the US is better than Cuba and China. Big fuckin' woop.

Comparisons with your peers would carry far more weight.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[willard 0]

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Go to Cuba and try to march with a sign condemning Castro. Try to lead a Democracy demonstration in China.

Great, so the US is better than Cuba and China. Big fuckin' woop.

Comparisons with your peers would carry far more weight.

So give us one.

[unformed 0]

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Go to Cuba and try to march with a sign condemning Castro. Try to lead a Democracy demonstration in China.

Great, so the US is better than Cuba and China. Big fuckin' woop.

Comparisons with your peers would carry far more weight.

So give us one.

Check the Press Freedom Index

This ad space for sale.

[willard 0]

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Go to Cuba and try to march with a sign condemning Castro. Try to lead a Democracy demonstration in China.

Great, so the US is better than Cuba and China. Big fuckin' woop.

Comparisons with your peers would carry far more weight.

So give us one.

Check the Press Freedom Index

"Violations of the privacy of sources, persistent problems in granting press visas and the arrest of several journalists during anti-Bush demonstrations kept the United States (22nd) away from the top of the list."

In my opinion, if that is all they have to drop the U.S. in their rankings for, I'd say we're doing alright.
Interesting they didn't ellaborate on the arrests of the journalists. I seriously doubt they were just standing off to the side taking notes.
Of course, there will always be those who aren't happy unless they can say anything to anyone anywhere at anytime without fear of any kind of reprisal such as a bloody nose or a citation for disturbing the piece.

[nanook 1]

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I guess the right to drive trumps the First Amendment every time.

There is no "right" to drive. It's a privlege. You have to get licensed to drive in the U. S. unless on private property.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[unformed 0]

No one's arguing that we aren't doing alright. We're saying that we should be doing better, and the response is "Well, we're better than China and Iran so there!".

It's like a B-grade student saying how he's so much better than the kid who's failing rather than trying to become an A-grade student.

B isn't so bad, but A is better.

I guess the difference is some people want the US to be the best it can be, rather than just good enough.

This ad space for sale.

[willard 0]

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No one's arguing that we aren't doing alright. We're saying that we should be doing better, and the response is "Well, we're better than China and Iran so there!".

It's like a B-grade student saying how he's so much better than the kid who's failing rather than trying to become an A-grade student.

B isn't so bad, but A is better.

I guess the difference is some people want the US to be the best it can be, rather than just good enough.

Agreed. I would give the U.S. an A-.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Go to Cuba and try to march with a sign condemning Castro. Try to lead a Democracy demonstration in China.

Great, so the US is better than Cuba and China. Big fuckin' woop.

Comparisons with your peers would carry far more weight.

Even by the joke that is the Reporter's Freedom Index, the US compares just fine with its peers. Check for the UK, Japan, France.

At risk of offending delicate people here, Germany is the first significant country on the list, tied for 11th. Significant in that it has contention the government might want to suppress, and large enough for the reporters to actually care about going there.

Forgive me if I don't believe the freedom of the press is remotely similar in El Salvador, a place with government supported death squads not 2 decades ago.

[akarunway 1]

Here in the U.S. you can plant your butt across from the White House and carry a sign all day every day if you want. You can get a permit to hold a rally at the Lincoln Memorial and give a speech calling him a communist, nazi, bigot, or whatever you want.

Like THIS>http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/26/dc.protests/

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[hairyjuan 0]

right





www.freedomtofascism.com

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[ExAFO 0]

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right





www.freedomtofascism.com

Right!


www.rabbit.org

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Andy9o8 0]

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right





www.freedomtofascism.com

Right!

www.rabbit.org

http://www.recipeland.com/recipe.epl?id=19082

Mmmm....pie...

[akarunway 1]

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right





www.freedomtofascism.com

Right!

www.rabbit.org

http://www.recipeland.com/recipe.epl?id=19082

Mmmm....pie...

Wrong. The SECRET Jackalope Stew. Mmmm. Stew>http://www.sudftw.com/jackcon.htm

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[willard 0]

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Here in the U.S. you can plant your butt across from the White House and carry a sign all day every day if you want. You can get a permit to hold a rally at the Lincoln Memorial and give a speech calling him a communist, nazi, bigot, or whatever you want.

Like THIS>http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/26/dc.protests/

According to your article, they were arrested for breaking existing laws. Can't demonstrate inside a government building. Don't know whay they would other than to disrupt operations. (Much more visible outside the building) Can't cross a police line. That's pretty much common sense. And why wouldn't they get a permit? It's easy, it's cheap (if not free), and they would be in good graces with the police and less likely to get arrested. That's it! They WANTED to get arrested! So they got what they wanted then bitched about it.
You must think right to free speech means say and do anything anywhere anytime. Sorry, but that's not freedom. That's anarchy.

[Andy9o8 0]

I've never been a fan of demonstration permits because I don't think exercising 1st Amendment rights should be by license. I also think that if we're to be able to TRULY exercise our 1st Amendment rights freely, we need the ability to do it anonymously and spontaneously. Government "regulation", even if ostensibly well-intended, generally compromises the freedom.

Demonstrations sometimes involve civil disobedience. I've done it. I've never been arrested, but I accepted the possibility that I might be. As I've said before, accepting the possibility of punishment, preferably with some maturity and dignity, is a hallmark of civil disobedience.
If you're not willing to take some punishment, don't break any laws. If you're willing to break a few minor laws to get your point across, more power to you - but take the consequences like an adult.

[ExAFO 0]

Lizards are fun to toss into blenders.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Try to lead a Democracy demonstration in China

The average Chinese (few hundred millions) does not give a rat's ass about democracy. Besides, the rest of the world should PRAY that China does not become a democracy.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[willard 0]

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Demonstrations sometimes involve civil disobedience. I've done it. I've never been arrested, but I accepted the possibility that I might be. As I've said before, accepting the possibility of punishment, preferably with some maturity and dignity, is a hallmark of civil disobedience.
If you're not willing to take some punishment, don't break any laws. If you're willing to break a few minor laws to get your point across, more power to you - but take the consequences like an adult.

I couldn't agree more.

[willard 0]

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The average Chinese (few hundred millions) does not give a rat's ass about democracy.

And that has what to do with freedom of speech here in the U.S.?

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Besides, the rest of the world should PRAY that China does not become a democracy.

Right. Communism is so much better to live under.

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[Frenchy68 0]

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Right. Communism is so much better to live under

The current political and economical situations in China is probably further removed from the communism doctrine than the US ones. And that is not to say that the US is even remotely a "communist" country.
As for what this has to do with free speech in the US? Nothing at all. You mentioned China as an (in my opinion flawed) example.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[willard 0]

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Right. Communism is so much better to live under

The current political and economical situations in China is probably further removed from the communism doctrine than the US ones. And that is not to say that the US is even remotely a "communist" country.
As for what this has to do with free speech in the US? Nothing at all. You mentioned China as an (in my opinion flawed) example.

What is flawed about the comparison? Here in the U.S. any political party can have rallys, conventions, stage protests, demonstrations, etc. Can they do that in China?

[Frenchy68 0]

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What is flawed about the comparison? Here in the U.S. any political party can have rallys, conventions, stage protests, demonstrations, etc. Can they do that in China?

No, as there are no per se other party than the official one. Mostly because the huge majority of Chinese do not care about politics. They're too busy trying to survive. There are demonstrations, protests, rallys, et al though. Much like anywhere else, they have to be "cleared" by local authorities. And granted, there are probably much fewer authorizations being given than in the US. China is NOT a democracy, nor do I think its citizens aspire to have it become one.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."