rhys 0 #101 March 10, 2007 It is an interesting subject, you have to take into consideration that $2 a day is plenty in many cases, here in Tanzania you could buy over2kg of vegetables, some rice and a few sweets for under $2. The scary reality is that some people only have $2 for a week! there is a lot of corruption, Tanzania has Oil, gas, Daimonds, Tanzanite, tourism, etc. where is the money? It goes into Mercedez Benz's and BMW's for the select few making the German stats even higher and the county no better off. A punter pays $650 for park fees just to climb mt. kilimanjaro but there are hungry people outside the gates!!! there is an uneven distribution of wealth but we can't assume that because someone only has $2 a day they are unhappy or malnourished. A doctors visit is only $1 and you can buy medicine for $1-$2, someone in the USA that has $10 a day to live on is much less fortunate than a tanzanian with $1. dunno what all that means but using some examples sometimes does not represent the reality of the situation because some cannot comprehend the differences. having said all that there is plenty of poverty here but not too many complaining, and you never/hardly ever see a baby crying because they are not spoiled from birth. Who is in a better condition a billionaire with a heart problem, no friends and no happiness, or an African with plenty of friends, a plate of Ugali and a smile on their face? money is not everything!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #102 March 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteConclusions: 2 out of the top 12, and 5 of the top 62 are from France. 14 of the first 487 are from France, and 15 total frenchmen are on the list. Data: 2 of the top 17 are from Sweden, who has 5 of the first 112 and 8 total. 9 of the first 96 are from Germany. 38 of the first 487 are from Germany, with 55 TOTAL Billionairres from Germany! Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether the country is socialist (France/Germany/Sweden) or communist (China) or capitalst (US) - there will be wealthy people. Right, but as the ideologies change, the care and distribution change, which is a direct reflection of the level of hmanity these ideologies reflect. Oh, I definitely want to see the logic behind THAT statement...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #103 March 10, 2007 QuoteRight, but as the ideologies change, the care and distribution change, which is a direct reflection of the level of hmanity these ideologies reflect. So, are you saying that a wealthy person is not per se bad? I.e., Bill Gates gives billions away - his own person choice to redistribute. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #104 March 11, 2007 Well, that theory of his won't go well with the Teddy "the drimken assassin" Kennedy, or his probably beloved John Kerry-Teresa Heinz...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #105 March 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat are you doing to remedy these problems? I didn't realise you thought there was a problem. I'll ask again - What are you doing to remedy these problems? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #106 March 12, 2007 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What happened to all of those functioning, productive farms that were taken away from white farmers and given to the blacks. They went to shit. Whose fault was that? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteRobert Mugabe's. Who's fault was it that the proper template for a stable, lasting democracy wasn't in place when we gave self rule back to Southern Rhodesi/ Zimbabwe? It was our fault, just like with every other former colony that's gone to shit. Wait a minute! I thought that forcing a democratic way of life down someone's throat was evil. You can't have it both ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #107 March 12, 2007 QuoteWait a minute! I thought that forcing a democratic way of life down someone's throat was evil. You can't have it both ways. What the fuck are you talking about?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #108 March 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThere are now 946 billionaires in the world with a combined worth of over 3.5 Trillion US$. At the same time, there are 2.7 Billion people living on less than $2 a day. Draw your own conclusions..... So what do you propose? Should there be a 'salary cap'? Should there be a law that anyone that makes more then a million dollars a year should then have all that money over a million distributed to everyone else? How about univeral care and better social programs. Also, college tuition paid, as California used to do. Education and health care should be encouraged and provided. And the quality of the education and health care goes to shit. Bottom line you get what you pay for. Right, and the neo-Repugs have writtenthe rules to benefit them, so the poor have gone to shit..... and then the Repugs wonder why all teh crime????? You really do get wht you pay for and the Repugs have said fuck off to the lower classes and they ahev gone to shit, so I agree with you. By your statement you have demonstrated that you want fewer people to get better care, fuck the masses. Don't you think it's kind of ridiculus to blame everything on Republicans? Just look at the entire history of man. There has always been a lopsided distribution of wealth. That is just a fact of life. The lower have always got the shit end of the stick. That has nothing to with Republicans or Democrats. Pull your head out of the sand and take a look around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #109 March 12, 2007 QuoteNext let's have a thread about the extreme contrast between mountain tops and mid-ocean trenches. It's mid-ocean ridges. The trenches are usually (maybe all?) up against a continent or plate border. Fun topic though. As far as skydivers being cold-hearted; I wouldn't think any more than any other group - probably less. I have cooled considerably as the portion of my earnings that I get to spend on what I want to spend it on has sunk to not much more than half. Feels like a rock and a hard spot though. On one hand there are the Repubs who seem to have almost no compassion and have to be fought tooth and nail to help anybody, and on the other a bunch of Dems who want to save everybody from themselves - and plan on hijacking even more of my earnings to do it. As Sylvester would say, with a good spit, "Despicable!"" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #110 March 12, 2007 QuoteWould you enjoy the prosperity you do now if you had been born in Somalia? Haiti? A Rio slum? So are you asking if a person would enjoy being prosperous if they are poor? No that's not it. Maybe you are asking if a prosperous person living in Somalia . . . . No, that's not it either. What exactly are you asking in the above post. If you were more like making a statement - just make it. I'm curious where it is going. Anyway, if I'm poor, then I'm poor. If I'm wealthy, then I'm wealthy. The If-you-were-poor hypotheticals (like most hypotheticals) are empty and meaningless. I mean, if my Aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. What's the point? Anyone done the arithmetic? If you took that 6 1/2 trillion and divided it up amongst everybody, you come out to roughly a grand each. Are there people who think that would solve anything long term? OK, being facetious to make a point that removing the disparity of wealth is not the fix, because disparity of wealth is not the problem. Nothing in itself wrong with having lots of money, or no money. The problem is economies not being allowed to mature at a reasonable pace on local and regional levels. Underdevelopment is not a status, it is a process that happens when an agrarian, rural, or otherwise relatively simple economy is put on steriods by outside parties. And everybody is guilty. The outside parties for operating on nothing but short term interest and greed as well as the inside parties that are always a necessary component in pulling it off. Everybody plays a part, but nobody thinks they are to blame. No single raindrop considers itself responsible for the flood." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #111 March 12, 2007 QuoteSo are you asking if a person would enjoy being prosperous if they are poor? No that's not it. Maybe you are asking if a prosperous person living in Somalia . . . . No, that's not it either. No, that's not it. For clarity I'll restate the question as "Would you have the prosperity you do now if you had been born in...." The reply was to someone who had stated that the level of work a person is prepared to do is the only factor on wealth or poverty. On a global scale I think thats complete BS. QuoteThe problem is economies not being allowed to mature at a reasonable pace on local and regional levels. Underdevelopment is not a status, it is a process that happens when an agrarian, rural, or otherwise relatively simple economy is put on steriods by outside parties. And everybody is guilty. The outside parties for operating on nothing but short term interest and greed as well as the inside parties that are always a necessary component in pulling it off. Very much in agreement.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #112 March 12, 2007 Wait a minute! I thought that forcing a democratic way of life down someone's throat was evil. You can't have it both ways. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteWhat the fuck are you talking about? You said that it was our fault, whoever that is, that a working model of democracy wasn't in place and that's why the blacks failed at taking over the white farms. When we attempt to give people the hope of a capitalistic, democratic system, all we hear is that we are imperialists. Should we give those who are trodden down by tyrants and butchers the hope of something better, or not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #113 March 12, 2007 QuoteWhen we attempt to give people the hope of a capitalistic, democratic system, all we hear is that we are imperialists. Should we give those who are trodden down by tyrants and butchers the hope of something better, or not? First of all, show me where I have ever condemned the goal of creating a stable democracy in either Iraq or Afghanistan (never mind that in neither case was that the stated aim). Secondly, don't you think there is a slight difference between returning independance to a long held colony and invading a sovereign nation? Hence my question, what the fuck are you talking about?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #114 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhen we attempt to give people the hope of a capitalistic, democratic system, all we hear is that we are imperialists. Should we give those who are trodden down by tyrants and butchers the hope of something better, or not? First of all, show me where I have ever condemned the goal of creating a stable democracy in either Iraq or Afghanistan (never mind that in neither case was that the stated aim). Secondly, don't you think there is a slight difference between returning independance to a long held colony and invading a sovereign nation? Hence my question, what the fuck are you talking about? I think this post set off a bunch of people: QuoteRobert Mugabe's. Who's fault was it that the proper template for a stable, lasting democracy wasn't in place when we gave self rule back to Southern Rhodesi/ Zimbabwe? It was our fault, just like with every other former colony that's gone to shit. It's the "let them have their country back... self determination... freedom... etc." and then when they completely fuck it up, it's somehow whitey's fault. It buys into that whole "white guilt" dynamic. I seem to recall a fair number of people supporting Mugabe's ouster of white farmers. More "let them have their country back". Now, many of those once productive farms are completely unproductive and, for some reason "it's our fault". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #115 March 13, 2007 QuoteIt's the "let them have their country back... self determination... freedom... etc." and then when they completely fuck it up, it's somehow whitey's fault. It buys into that whole "white guilt" dynamic. Zimbabwe isn't a great example, but in varying degrees, and especially in central africa, the colonial story is one of systematic rape and pillage followed eventually by half arsed attempts to hand over power in an ordered way while buggering off and wiping our hands of the whole deal. QuoteI seem to recall a fair number of people supporting Mugabe's ouster of white farmers. More "let them have their country back". Now, many of those once productive farms are completely unproductive and, for some reason "it's our fault". Some people may have done. I never did.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #116 March 13, 2007 QuoteTake all the worlds money, Pool it together and equally distribute it among all people in the world.. Fast forward 5 to 10 years... You will find that we will be right back where we are now with about 10% having 90% of the wealth. Why?? Because some people are smarter than others. Wanna get rich?? Work Hard, Use your Brain, Quit Bitchin and Realize that YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible for YOUR success and/or failure. you are kiddin right? we are all equal and if we are all made equal it will reamin so, right? right? LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #117 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteIt's the "let them have their country back... self determination... freedom... etc." and then when they completely fuck it up, it's somehow whitey's fault. It buys into that whole "white guilt" dynamic. Zimbabwe isn't a great example, but in varying degrees, and especially in central africa, the colonial story is one of systematic rape and pillage followed eventually by half arsed attempts to hand over power in an ordered way while buggering off and wiping our hands of the whole deal. White guilt. I'll ask again - What are you doing to remedy these problems? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #118 March 13, 2007 QuoteI'll ask again - What are you doing to remedy these problems? You can ask as many times as you want. My actions have nothing to do with the validity of my position.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #119 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'll ask again - What are you doing to remedy these problems? You can ask as many times as you want. My actions have nothing to do with the validity of my position. How about your lack of actions? Is this important enough that you'll take action to help remedy the problem? Or is this just something to whinge and moan about, but not worthy of anything more? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #120 March 13, 2007 Quote What are you doing to remedy these problems? Supporting politicians who will help solve some of them - ie. raise taxes on the rich, work to stop exploitation of third world countries by the West, etc. Attempting to change minds and attitudes when possible. Anything else I chose to do is my business only. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #121 March 13, 2007 QuoteOr is this just something to whinge and moan about, but not worthy of anything more? When did the word "whine" get a 'g' in it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #122 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuote What are you doing to remedy these problems? Supporting politicians who will help solve some of them - ie. raise taxes on the rich, work to stop exploitation of third world countries by the West, etc. Attempting to change minds and attitudes when possible. Anything else I chose to do is my business only. Which politicians do you support, who are working "to stop exploitation of third world countries by the West"? I ask what people are doing because it's been my experience (admittedly a small sampling) that the people who think others (i.e. "the rich) should be forced to contribute more are typically pretty selfish when it comes to their own contributions. Talk is cheap. Walking your talk is quite different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #123 March 13, 2007 Quoteraise taxes on the richQuoteAnything else I chose to do is my business only So, you're all for helping the 3rd world as long as it's the rich paying for it, then...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #124 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteOr is this just something to whinge and moan about, but not worthy of anything more? When did the word "whine" get a 'g' in it? It's a britishism. Perhaps ncclimber is british? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #125 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteraise taxes on the richQuoteAnything else I chose to do is my business only So, you're all for helping the 3rd world as long as it's the rich paying for it, then... Yes. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
