jakee 1,257 #26 February 22, 2007 Yep, I was serious. Any idea where the word roots from - maybe there's some old english form of 'apologise' that simply means explain?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #27 February 22, 2007 QuoteThe word of his mother provides the backdrop to his claims of divinity, at the Oracle of Ammon it was claimed that Zeus appeared to Alexander and spoke to him of his destiny. Claimed by who? Is it claimed that Alexander ever stated that Zeus appeared to him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #28 February 22, 2007 QuoteYou know your not going to convince me of anything and I know that I am not going to convince you of anything here, but this is an interesting conversation that really makes me wonder how you could possibly believe so strongly in your god with no physical or tangible evidence. What "tangible evidence" would I look for? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #29 February 22, 2007 And that is the question. Why would you believe in something with out any tangible evidence? Just having a book that self proclaims to be written by god is not evidence of anything. I can proclaim myself to be whatever I want, but it doesn't make it so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #30 February 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe word of his mother provides the backdrop to his claims of divinity, at the Oracle of Ammon it was claimed that Zeus appeared to Alexander and spoke to him of his destiny. Claimed by who? Is it claimed that Alexander ever stated that Zeus appeared to him? It is claimed that he did and it is claimed that he didn't. As prone to mood swings as Alexander seemed to be (from the accounts that reach us) I personally think it is entirely likely that he both did and didn't claim it depending on the occasion. Many of his soldiers and contemporaries believed that he was a demi-god and many believed that he wasn't. Both Arrian and Plutarch report that he was spoken to by the God at Ammon and "received the answer that he desired."Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #31 February 22, 2007 QuoteAnd that is the question. Why would you believe in something with out any tangible evidence? Just having a book that self proclaims to be written by god is not evidence of anything. I can proclaim myself to be whatever I want, but it doesn't make it so. I'll ask again ... What do you want to see, experience, smell, taste, that you would say,"Now THAT is evidence of God!" steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #32 February 22, 2007 Any evidence available should be tested as much as possible by many people to determine if it actually does support the existence of god. If I tell you I have a rock that sticks to iron but never show it to you and never demonstrate it to you but instead give you a book that says I have it then how do you know that I am not lying? I want to see something that makes sense. Telling me that a feeling you had when you read a book at a certain time when you were feeling lonely and down pointed to god does not mean anything to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #33 February 22, 2007 QuoteI'll ask again ... What do you want to see, experience, smell, taste, that you would say,"Now THAT is evidence of God!" Something equivalent to the flipping great, in your face, worship me or die in a rain of fire miracles that were apparently so common in ye olde times. Either that or god just appearing and telling me. I'm pretty sure neither of those are going to happen though, I wonder why?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #34 February 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe word of his mother provides the backdrop to his claims of divinity, at the Oracle of Ammon it was claimed that Zeus appeared to Alexander and spoke to him of his destiny. Claimed by who? Is it claimed that Alexander ever stated that Zeus appeared to him? It is claimed that he did and it is claimed that he didn't. As prone to mood swings as Alexander seemed to be (from the accounts that reach us) I personally think it is entirely likely that he both did and didn't claim it depending on the occasion. Many of his soldiers and contemporaries believed that he was a demi-god and many believed that he wasn't. Both Arrian and Plutarch report that he was spoken to by the God at Ammon and "received the answer that he desired." I've checked a bunch of sites, that seem pretty credible, and couldn't find a single mention of Alexander making such a claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #35 February 22, 2007 QuoteAny evidence available should be tested as much as possible by many people to determine if it actually does support the existence of god. If I tell you I have a rock that sticks to iron but never show it to you and never demonstrate it to you but instead give you a book that says I have it then how do you know that I am not lying? I want to see something that makes sense. So this will have to be an ongoing personal sort of thing, eh? Evidence done for you now won't be viable for anyone in time? QuoteTelling me that a feeling you had when you read a book at a certain time when you were feeling lonely and down pointed to god does not mean anything to me. I know that, but it did mean something to me. For the third time, it was for me, not you. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #36 February 22, 2007 QuoteI've checked a bunch of sites, that seem pretty credible, and couldn't find a single mention of Alexander making such a claim. What's that scraping sound I hear..... it's goalposts being moved! You never said I had to show exactly where Alexander himself claimed it. I just had to show that kallend wasn't making shit up and that the idea of Zeus appearing to Alexander wasn't conjured out of thin air 30 minutes ago. What sites have you been to, have you read any primary sources, how much do you actually know about the demi-god myth surrounding Alexander?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #37 February 22, 2007 Then why would mention it? How would I benefit from it? It appears that you definition of evidence doesn't match mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #38 February 22, 2007 QuoteI never thought we'd see an argument about Greek myth in Speakers' Corner. NCc will argue about anything to avoid the actual topic of a thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #39 February 22, 2007 QuoteThen why would mention it? How would I benefit from it? It appears that you definition of evidence doesn't match mine. I also gave you some hard evidence. My wife drove over my son. He didn't even have a mark on his body ... nothing but tire tracks. That comfort I received back in the Airborne days comforted me that he woul not be harmed even though I was told he was dead. That was REAL evidence to me. I saw the sleeper with tire tracks, I saw his little 18 month old body that had nothing on it but small indentations from the gravel that sticks in a 1969 land yacht Buick's tires. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #40 February 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteI never thought we'd see an argument about Greek myth in Speakers' Corner. NCc will argue about anything to avoid the actual topic of a thread. The man never met a nit he didn't want to pick repeatedly batter into the ground with a sledgehammer.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #41 February 22, 2007 What evidence is there that these things were done by god? Just because they happened doesn't mean god did it. Apparently your definition of hard evidence and mine differ also. Can you reproduce these results and show that they could only be done by god? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #42 February 22, 2007 QuoteWhat evidence is there that these things were done by god? Just because they happened doesn't mean god did it. Apparently your definition of hard evidence and mine differ also. Can you reproduce these results and show that they could only be done by god? See this goes back to my question for you that you won't answer. What evidence would be sufficiently tangible for you? You can write off any evidence given and say, "How do I know it is from God" The biblical and Christian God is not flesh & bones. JC said he is spirit. You're not going to see him. But I suppose even if you did, you'd just say, "I don't know who you are, but you can't be God." steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #43 February 22, 2007 Well you see my dilemma. What you gave me wasn't evidence. You told me something happened that you believe to caused by god, but you have nothing to back that up. Now you tell me god is not flesh and bones, but he is omnipotent and omnipresent and can do anything. But he can't appear as flesh and bones? He wants us to believe in him, but provides no proof. Hmm what makes him any better then Allah? or Vishnu? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #44 February 22, 2007 QuoteWell you see my dilemma. What you gave me wasn't evidence. You told me something happened that you believe to caused by god, but you have nothing to back that up. Now you tell me god is not flesh and bones, but he is omnipotent and omnipresent and can do anything. But he can't appear as flesh and bones? He wants us to believe in him, but provides no proof. Hmm what makes him any better then Allah? or Vishnu? I didn't say he couldn't appear as flesh, I said he wasn't flesh. If he appeared in the flesh to prove to you he was God, how would you know for sure? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #45 February 22, 2007 If he were to appear in flesh he would have to do something god like and I would want to do everything I could to discredit him till I finally would have to admit that it really is god. Unfortunately all that is available is a book that self proclaims to be written by god. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #46 February 22, 2007 If you grew up in a Muslim community do you think you would have eventually converted to Christianity? Is you religon a product of your environment? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #47 February 22, 2007 QuoteIf he were to appear in flesh he would have to do something god like and I would want to do everything I could to discredit him till I finally would have to admit that it really is god. Unfortunately all that is available is a book that self proclaims to be written by god. So it would have to be personal, right? It had to be done for you, right? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #48 February 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteI've checked a bunch of sites, that seem pretty credible, and couldn't find a single mention of Alexander making such a claim. What's that scraping sound I hear..... it's goalposts being moved! You never said I had to show exactly where Alexander himself claimed it. I just had to show that kallend wasn't making shit up and that the idea of Zeus appearing to Alexander wasn't conjured out of thin air 30 minutes ago. What sites have you been to, have you read any primary sources, how much do you actually know about the demi-god myth surrounding Alexander? WOW You're doing a fine job of missing the point. Accusing me of moving the goalposts? I'm just trying to find a credible source claiming that an entity presumed to be Zeus appeared before Alexander the Great. Could you provide one? Or are you just going to continue with your cheap personal attacks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #49 February 22, 2007 NO It would have to demonstrated for everyone not just me and repeatable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #50 February 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI never thought we'd see an argument about Greek myth in Speakers' Corner. NCc will argue about anything to avoid the actual topic of a thread. The man never met a nit he didn't want to pick repeatedly batter into the ground with a sledgehammer. The only reason I questioned this kallend's latest claim is because it goes to a pattern of misrepresentation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
