hairyjuan 0 #76 February 21, 2007 the only correct answer is: www.godisimaginary.com www.thegodmovie.com www.whywontgodhealamputees.com www.truthbbeknown.com www.jesusneverexisted.com www.infidel.orgwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #77 February 22, 2007 QuoteI think it takes more faith to believe the universe happened at random a long time ago, all by chance. Some would dispute even Intelligent Design, but whatever happened to that 3rd Law of Thermodynamics, you know, the one of all systems tending to entropy? Well, we now have Intelligent Gravity as well: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #78 February 22, 2007 QuoteThat's pretty demented, but as far as Christianity goes, it's not correct. wether right or not was not my point...the whole idea of burrning in hell for all etirnity is a seriously demented concept and those whom think that this could/would/should be required by their releigion - well, they are no better than those sitting in the stadium burning the people in the arena. they can quite frankly - just go to hell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #79 February 22, 2007 If christians are wrong then I guess you don't have anything to worry about, but what if we are right?Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #80 February 22, 2007 I liked your post btw... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigtexan 0 #81 February 22, 2007 then you sent 90% or more of everyone whom ever lived to burn in hell - now that sure sounds like a loving god to me... not.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #82 February 22, 2007 HUGE misconceptions/distortions in that post re. what Christians believe. It's the usual straw-man argument. CS Lewis pointed out that when people wish to attack Christianity, they first pose a version of it suitable for a 5-year-old and then use that as the object of their attack. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gontleman 0 #83 February 22, 2007 QuoteHUGE misconceptions/distortions in that post re. what Christians believe. It's the usual straw-man argument. CS Lewis pointed out that when people wish to attack Christianity, they first pose a version of it suitable for a 5-year-old and then use that as the object of their attack.Feel free to offer corrections. Don't just say "I SEE MISCONCEPTIONS" and not elaborate on what they are and why they are. I thought I was dealing with some pretty advanced concepts that I was taught in church. I'm not an outsider looking in. I'm a former insider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #84 February 22, 2007 There's too much to go through & it would take way too long. I can recommend some books if you like. Spiritual journeys don't get explained very well by a few snippets on an internet forum. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gontleman 0 #85 February 22, 2007 QuoteThere's too much to go through & it would take way too long. I can recommend some books if you like. Spiritual journeys don't get explained very well by a few snippets on an internet forum.You can stick to the Bible if you prefer. While I was posting my original thoughts, I was going through it myself and read a few verses differently than I had before. Specifically verses that talk of being saved by faith in Christ. An angle I never heard anyone talk about (because it's not true, as i was taught, well if you take it to the extreme) is that it's Christ's faith in us that is our salvation. If he didn't have faith in us, then he wouldn't have been crucified. But he is the intercessor and he was the one asking for our forgiveness. In 13 years of church, I don't recall that really being focused on. So it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #86 February 22, 2007 I did not send anyone anywhere. Everyone has a freewill.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigtexan 0 #87 February 22, 2007 your right -- 'you' don't send them - your not god. as for freewill.... my freewill says reason trumps myth and those not capable of reason deserve to beleive in 'happly ever after'. those with reasonable abilities to reason what is likely to be true and what is likely to be myth say releigion is most likely a myth - though no one can know for sure since who has credible evidence of what happens after death - umm.. cha.. no one! .. find me one credible resource of life after death that stands up to the simple quality of truness that gravity exists and if you jump out of da plane (with out any funny business here) your gonna go toward the ground. everyone knows, if you drop the apple, it goes to the ground. That is fact. Releigion is myth. loves again... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #88 February 22, 2007 Quoteyour "evidence" is so subjective and arbitrary that I can't place any value on it at all. I don't understand how you can believe it. If you look hard enough you will always find what you are looking for, whether it is actually there or not. As I said, I wasn't presenting my experiences as evidence for your faith or lack thereof. I presented it as my reason for faith. I'm not too concerned that you think my faith is subjective and arbitrary. That is how you see it. I'm not sure I can change that. Look how Jesus phrased it: Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' So if JC thinks some wouldn't be convinced if he was to rise from the dead and talk directly to them, I see little reason to believe i could convince them. However, I wish you well. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigtexan 0 #89 February 22, 2007 Quotewhen people wish to attack Christianity, they first pose a version of it suitable for a 5-year-old and then use that as the object of their attack Shouldn't it be suitable for a 5-yoa. ? Just how old do you have to be to understand the truth. Either there is a 'your god', or there isn't. Please - no disrespect - you beleife is personal to you. I respect that - my hostility comes from christians belief that they should desiminate their beliefs - it's their duty etc.. and they prey on the 5-yoa's before they are old enough to reason for them selves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigtexan 0 #90 February 22, 2007 QuoteLook how Jesus phrased it: Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' So if JC thinks some wouldn't be convinced if he was to rise from the dead and talk directly to them, I see little reason to believe i could convince them. However, I wish you well. man is this bogus... tell you what - take my someone - kill them - then have your god bring them back to talk to me... I will beleive then.. really I would. Beleive me, I would with out a doubt be a convert at that instant. That whole verse is bogus! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gontleman 0 #91 February 22, 2007 QuoteI did not send anyone anywhere. Everyone has a freewill.Careful with that free will stuff. None of us chose to be born. As such we are forced (circumstantially of course), according to the Christian doctrine, to choose A or B. The problem is, there is no logical proof for A. We are creatures of logic (insert Christian retaliatory remark about how humans could possibly comprehend the logic of God) and the only tools we have to make reasonable decisions are our 5 senses and our brain. So if we want to choose A we have to "deny ourselves". Well, that doesn't compute with many people. So if none of use chose to be here, we certainly didn't choose to be forced into some irrational decision about something we can only explain irrationally. Bleh. If it was true free will, we could just choose not to answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,431 #92 February 22, 2007 >but what if we are right? Pascal's Wager. Perhaps a worthwhile wager, but since the stakes are high on one side and zero on the other, not much evidence that it means the premise is correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gontleman 0 #93 February 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteyour "evidence" is so subjective and arbitrary that I can't place any value on it at all. I don't understand how you can believe it. If you look hard enough you will always find what you are looking for, whether it is actually there or not. As I said, I was presenting my experiences as evidence for your faith or lack thereof. I presented it as my reason for faith. I'm not too concerned that you think my faith is subjective and arbitrary. That is how you see it. I'm not sure I can change that. Look how Jesus phrased it: Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' So if JC thinks some wouldn't be convinced if he was to rise from the dead and talk directly to them, I see little reason to believe i could convince them. However, I wish you well. This is why I like steveorino :) Excellent resposne. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gontleman 0 #94 February 22, 2007 Quote>but what if we are right? Pascal's Wager. Perhaps a worthwhile wager, but since the stakes are high on one side and zero on the other, not much evidence that it means the premise is correct.If the Christians are right, then the only thing of meaning in this life is your choice regarding salvation. If an atheist is right, then it stands that, given a true Christian's way of life, the Christian's deprived themselves of a significant portion of the human experience. Of course most people would find that things considered sinful are typically hurtful. So to tell a Christian "look at all these hurtful (yet sometimes fun) things you missed out on" is quite silly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #95 February 22, 2007 QuoteIf christians are wrong then I guess you don't have anything to worry about, but what if we are right? Well, with more than hundred different religions available the chance you are right are not something worth considering :P Being in the sane Heaven with George W Bush is probably not the top priority for a lot of people anyway.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigtexan 0 #96 February 22, 2007 the problem with religions is not that they exist, nor what they believe; but when they impose their beliefs/values on others with force of any kind. this tends to be the case 'most' of the time; they either try or try and succeed to force their view on others. Therefore, it is my view that it is my duty to undermine these releigios systems at every oppertunity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites greeny 0 #97 February 22, 2007 I'm going with the prophet Dwain Weston No morals, No Ethics No Conscience No Guilt Greeny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,647 #98 February 22, 2007 QuoteIf christians are wrong then I guess you don't have anything to worry about, but what if we are right? What if Hindus are right? Then you'll be in trouble.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #99 February 22, 2007 Richard Dawkins answers what is effectively the same question quite well here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg It's worth watching. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigtexan 0 #100 February 22, 2007 So, take your pick - which one is right - are you christian because most of the people around you have been shouveling this down your throat since you were born - or is it because you came to it by some other means - like Newton came to find Gravity? (src of data is wiki - but we all know bout how accurate that is.. but these numbers seem reasonable - and provide fitting material for this discussion) NOTE: Many, many, many others left out and/or forgotten over time. 01. Christianity 2.1 billion (see below) 02. Islam 1.3 billion (see below) 03. Non-Adherent (Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist) 1.1 billion 04. Hinduism 900 million (see below) 05. Chinese folk religion 394 million (see below) 06. Buddhism 376 million 07. Primal indigenous ("Pagan") 300 million 08. African traditional and diasporic 100 million 09. Sikhism 23 million 10. Juche 19 million 11. Spiritism 15 million 12. Judaism 14 million 13. Bahá'í Faith 7 million 14. Jehovah's Witnesses 6.5 million 15. Jainism 4.2 million 16. Shinto 4 million (see below) 17. Cao Dai 4 million 18. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million 19. Tenrikyo 2 million 20. Neo-Paganism 1 million 21. Unitarian Universalism 800,000 22. Rastafari movement 600,000 I also find it funny that #1 and #2 seem to be fighting alot through history.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 4 of 62 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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bigtexan 0 #81 February 22, 2007 then you sent 90% or more of everyone whom ever lived to burn in hell - now that sure sounds like a loving god to me... not.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #82 February 22, 2007 HUGE misconceptions/distortions in that post re. what Christians believe. It's the usual straw-man argument. CS Lewis pointed out that when people wish to attack Christianity, they first pose a version of it suitable for a 5-year-old and then use that as the object of their attack. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gontleman 0 #83 February 22, 2007 QuoteHUGE misconceptions/distortions in that post re. what Christians believe. It's the usual straw-man argument. CS Lewis pointed out that when people wish to attack Christianity, they first pose a version of it suitable for a 5-year-old and then use that as the object of their attack.Feel free to offer corrections. Don't just say "I SEE MISCONCEPTIONS" and not elaborate on what they are and why they are. I thought I was dealing with some pretty advanced concepts that I was taught in church. I'm not an outsider looking in. I'm a former insider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #84 February 22, 2007 There's too much to go through & it would take way too long. I can recommend some books if you like. Spiritual journeys don't get explained very well by a few snippets on an internet forum. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gontleman 0 #85 February 22, 2007 QuoteThere's too much to go through & it would take way too long. I can recommend some books if you like. Spiritual journeys don't get explained very well by a few snippets on an internet forum.You can stick to the Bible if you prefer. While I was posting my original thoughts, I was going through it myself and read a few verses differently than I had before. Specifically verses that talk of being saved by faith in Christ. An angle I never heard anyone talk about (because it's not true, as i was taught, well if you take it to the extreme) is that it's Christ's faith in us that is our salvation. If he didn't have faith in us, then he wouldn't have been crucified. But he is the intercessor and he was the one asking for our forgiveness. In 13 years of church, I don't recall that really being focused on. So it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #86 February 22, 2007 I did not send anyone anywhere. Everyone has a freewill.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #87 February 22, 2007 your right -- 'you' don't send them - your not god. as for freewill.... my freewill says reason trumps myth and those not capable of reason deserve to beleive in 'happly ever after'. those with reasonable abilities to reason what is likely to be true and what is likely to be myth say releigion is most likely a myth - though no one can know for sure since who has credible evidence of what happens after death - umm.. cha.. no one! .. find me one credible resource of life after death that stands up to the simple quality of truness that gravity exists and if you jump out of da plane (with out any funny business here) your gonna go toward the ground. everyone knows, if you drop the apple, it goes to the ground. That is fact. Releigion is myth. loves again... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #88 February 22, 2007 Quoteyour "evidence" is so subjective and arbitrary that I can't place any value on it at all. I don't understand how you can believe it. If you look hard enough you will always find what you are looking for, whether it is actually there or not. As I said, I wasn't presenting my experiences as evidence for your faith or lack thereof. I presented it as my reason for faith. I'm not too concerned that you think my faith is subjective and arbitrary. That is how you see it. I'm not sure I can change that. Look how Jesus phrased it: Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' So if JC thinks some wouldn't be convinced if he was to rise from the dead and talk directly to them, I see little reason to believe i could convince them. However, I wish you well. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #89 February 22, 2007 Quotewhen people wish to attack Christianity, they first pose a version of it suitable for a 5-year-old and then use that as the object of their attack Shouldn't it be suitable for a 5-yoa. ? Just how old do you have to be to understand the truth. Either there is a 'your god', or there isn't. Please - no disrespect - you beleife is personal to you. I respect that - my hostility comes from christians belief that they should desiminate their beliefs - it's their duty etc.. and they prey on the 5-yoa's before they are old enough to reason for them selves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #90 February 22, 2007 QuoteLook how Jesus phrased it: Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' So if JC thinks some wouldn't be convinced if he was to rise from the dead and talk directly to them, I see little reason to believe i could convince them. However, I wish you well. man is this bogus... tell you what - take my someone - kill them - then have your god bring them back to talk to me... I will beleive then.. really I would. Beleive me, I would with out a doubt be a convert at that instant. That whole verse is bogus! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gontleman 0 #91 February 22, 2007 QuoteI did not send anyone anywhere. Everyone has a freewill.Careful with that free will stuff. None of us chose to be born. As such we are forced (circumstantially of course), according to the Christian doctrine, to choose A or B. The problem is, there is no logical proof for A. We are creatures of logic (insert Christian retaliatory remark about how humans could possibly comprehend the logic of God) and the only tools we have to make reasonable decisions are our 5 senses and our brain. So if we want to choose A we have to "deny ourselves". Well, that doesn't compute with many people. So if none of use chose to be here, we certainly didn't choose to be forced into some irrational decision about something we can only explain irrationally. Bleh. If it was true free will, we could just choose not to answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,431 #92 February 22, 2007 >but what if we are right? Pascal's Wager. Perhaps a worthwhile wager, but since the stakes are high on one side and zero on the other, not much evidence that it means the premise is correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gontleman 0 #93 February 22, 2007 QuoteQuoteyour "evidence" is so subjective and arbitrary that I can't place any value on it at all. I don't understand how you can believe it. If you look hard enough you will always find what you are looking for, whether it is actually there or not. As I said, I was presenting my experiences as evidence for your faith or lack thereof. I presented it as my reason for faith. I'm not too concerned that you think my faith is subjective and arbitrary. That is how you see it. I'm not sure I can change that. Look how Jesus phrased it: Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' So if JC thinks some wouldn't be convinced if he was to rise from the dead and talk directly to them, I see little reason to believe i could convince them. However, I wish you well. This is why I like steveorino :) Excellent resposne. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gontleman 0 #94 February 22, 2007 Quote>but what if we are right? Pascal's Wager. Perhaps a worthwhile wager, but since the stakes are high on one side and zero on the other, not much evidence that it means the premise is correct.If the Christians are right, then the only thing of meaning in this life is your choice regarding salvation. If an atheist is right, then it stands that, given a true Christian's way of life, the Christian's deprived themselves of a significant portion of the human experience. Of course most people would find that things considered sinful are typically hurtful. So to tell a Christian "look at all these hurtful (yet sometimes fun) things you missed out on" is quite silly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #95 February 22, 2007 QuoteIf christians are wrong then I guess you don't have anything to worry about, but what if we are right? Well, with more than hundred different religions available the chance you are right are not something worth considering :P Being in the sane Heaven with George W Bush is probably not the top priority for a lot of people anyway.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #96 February 22, 2007 the problem with religions is not that they exist, nor what they believe; but when they impose their beliefs/values on others with force of any kind. this tends to be the case 'most' of the time; they either try or try and succeed to force their view on others. Therefore, it is my view that it is my duty to undermine these releigios systems at every oppertunity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greeny 0 #97 February 22, 2007 I'm going with the prophet Dwain Weston No morals, No Ethics No Conscience No Guilt Greeny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #98 February 22, 2007 QuoteIf christians are wrong then I guess you don't have anything to worry about, but what if we are right? What if Hindus are right? Then you'll be in trouble.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #99 February 22, 2007 Richard Dawkins answers what is effectively the same question quite well here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg It's worth watching. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #100 February 22, 2007 So, take your pick - which one is right - are you christian because most of the people around you have been shouveling this down your throat since you were born - or is it because you came to it by some other means - like Newton came to find Gravity? (src of data is wiki - but we all know bout how accurate that is.. but these numbers seem reasonable - and provide fitting material for this discussion) NOTE: Many, many, many others left out and/or forgotten over time. 01. Christianity 2.1 billion (see below) 02. Islam 1.3 billion (see below) 03. Non-Adherent (Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist) 1.1 billion 04. Hinduism 900 million (see below) 05. Chinese folk religion 394 million (see below) 06. Buddhism 376 million 07. Primal indigenous ("Pagan") 300 million 08. African traditional and diasporic 100 million 09. Sikhism 23 million 10. Juche 19 million 11. Spiritism 15 million 12. Judaism 14 million 13. Bahá'í Faith 7 million 14. Jehovah's Witnesses 6.5 million 15. Jainism 4.2 million 16. Shinto 4 million (see below) 17. Cao Dai 4 million 18. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million 19. Tenrikyo 2 million 20. Neo-Paganism 1 million 21. Unitarian Universalism 800,000 22. Rastafari movement 600,000 I also find it funny that #1 and #2 seem to be fighting alot through history.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
